We were ahead of our time when it came to out of the box thinking

SeVeReD said:
Until the wheels lift off the ground
the plane and the wheels are rolling on the ground
being pushed forward by air pushing against other air
by a prop or a jet ,,pushing air back against other air...
When on the ground the prop/jet propels you forward on your wheels
When you have reached, say 65 mph in a Cessna 150
The wings have enough wind flowing over them to create lift
and the pilot pulls back on the wheel

On a treadmill going clockwise and the free spinning wheels going counterclockwise
exactly matched ... I don't see that plane going forward to get up enough airspeed to create lift on the wings

Anyone here ever dynoed there car???
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Yes, you’ve got this mostly down. The dyno comparison is simply incorrect. The car is imparting its force upon the dyno, the airplane is not. The airplane is imparting its force upon the air.
For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction in terms of a jet, which is the easiest to explain.
 
amRam said:
By the way there totally is a scenario where the airplane won't take off and it would have to be that the treadmill is moving fast enough to burn out the wheel bearings before the plane gathers enough speed for the wings to generate lift
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wouldn't that really only depend on the length of this theoretical treadmill

most of the imagined treadmills people theorize about seem to be similar size to the plane itself

the first bit of a plane moving isn't very fast and it would be off that thing way before it hit the wheel speed it would normally hit near the end of a standard takeoff
 
The treadmill only matches the speed of the wheels not the speed of the air passing over the wings.

Just think of a jet max power. Air is coming in front to back regardless of wheel speed.
 
amRam said:
That's the thing about the question. There are practical physical limitations you'd have to consider for a technical answer. I don't know if that's in the spirit of the question though.



You have to stop using cars in the argument. It doesn't translate. If you imagine frictionless wheels then the airplane absolutely will fucking take off, because the force applied to the wheels by the treadmill is irrelevant.
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no
a plane begins it forward motion because it is on wheels and needs to gain speed to get wind over it's wings
no forward movement no wind over the wings
there is no way that the plane/jet will move forward given the rules
(no,,, no such contraption exists)
 
and what do you mean frictionless?
ya,, wheels on planes are free spinning
but are you trying to suggest that the treadmill/tire interface is w/o friction??? wtf ahaha
no
as soon as the air pushing on other air moves the plane forward
on its wheels
instantaneously the treadmill matches exactly
 
Yeah your brain just isn't processing this correctly. Sorry.

You're spending too much time focusing on the wheels.
 
havax said:
imagine putting a jet plane on a dyno. will the plane stay on the dyno when the jets start? lol come on, @SeVeReD
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ok dyno wasn't the best example
but the props/jets propel the plane
the wheel propel the car
and the dyno/belt turn and the thing doesn't move
 
SeVeReD said:
and what do you mean frictionless?
ya,, wheels on planes are free spinning
but are you trying to suggest that the treadmill/tire interface is w/o friction??? wtf ahaha
no
as soon as the air pushing on other air moves the plane forward
on its wheels
instantaneously the treadmill matches exactly
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Because the wheels are not fixed, they are free spinning, for the purposes of this scenario isn’t imparting force upon the airplane. However, the airplane is still imparting force upon the air as thrust, newtons 3st law.
 
amRam said:
Yeah your brain just isn't processing this correctly. Sorry.

You're spending too much time focusing on the wheels.
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AAAhhh I'm focused on the wings
and the air not moving over them
when the plane doesn't move
on a belt
 
@SeVeReD imagine if there was a wall in front of the treadmill and the plane was tied to it with a chain. When you start the treadmill will the plane move backwards?
 
SeVeReD said:
no
a plane begins it forward motion because it is on wheels and needs to gain speed to get wind over it's wings
no forward movement no wind over the wings
there is no way that the plane/jet will move forward given the rules
(no,,, no such contraption exists)
Click to expand...
 
aur0ra said:
You could pull the airplane with a rope too, it will move forward on the treadmill.
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Yeah I'm trying to illustrate it to him from this angle. The wheels are irrelevant, if we dismiss the friction and limitations in the bearings.
 
SeVeReD said:
a plane begins it forward motion because it is on wheels and needs to gain speed to get wind over it's wings
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lmao then how do you explain this?

1715376931169.png

the only thing the wheels/floats are doing is keeping the plane/props/jets from hitting the ground/water and creating more friction. ffs
 
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