Thrax speaks in VUGames T:V forum

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I think 4 is a good number. There are a lot of weapon combos you could do, especially if the new additions and tweaks make all of them useful. Like I listed above, disc and mortar would probably be the common base, and the other 2 you could work out numerous combinations. Grenade launcher, rocket pod, chaingun, blaster, burnanator. I don't see any of those being useless for a heavy. Gren launcher for some more firepower. Rocket pod to take out vehicles while on your route to their base, or while HoFing. Blaster seems like a very good tool for a HoF. Chaingun, I honestly never used much as a heavy. Burnanator, who knows? Camping the enemy base maybe, spam those enterances.

It won't be like t1/t2, I'm sure of that. You'll be switching weapons frequently wether they keep the heavy at 3 or switch to 4, I just hope it's 4.
 
If you don't wanna carry 5 weapons, leave two slots blank, that's the fun of being able to customize your own loadout as opposed to a "fixed" cla$$ like other games use. My HO loadout is skeletal in T1 and T2, only the absolute required is loaded (2 weapons, three blank). Its a tactical decision dictated from my experience playing the game that prompts me to do so. The rest is intentionally left empty because that's my choice. If it isn't effecting balance (I have never seen a complaint, ever, posted) why are you dictating how the game should be played? There's no "law" that says you absolutely must take 5 weapons if you can mount 5 weapons or we'll erase your hard-drive.

That's like saying, Every Light Armour uses the Disker, so lets prohibit them from using a Blaster. There are players who like carrying 5 weapons and its rather autocratic of you to change it for no other reason then, "*I* don't think it should" or "*I* don't see why, because *I* don't need to". You can't "fix" something that isn't broken, but you can induce needless complaints (and the complaints will come, and not even from me).

I don't argue because I'm offended over this, as I'll be the first to say the average player won't use all 5 weapons on a given spawn, though I have put all 5 weapons to use many times. However, you're going to have to come up with a better reason for arbitrarily adjusting something as seemingly benign to you as this.

The argument for limiting the light is more valid, I will agree with you here as in T1, the Light is unbalanced in a way because it can be a "Jack of All Trades" with 3 weapons on hand. Dropping 1 weapon would certainly be felt, especially when matched against a Medium who carries twice the number of weapons and can be more flexible. I mean it is a bit much that a Capper can 1) Snipe all the turrets off the flag deck, 2) Go airborne and Grenade spam the Flag Stand with the GL while finally 3) Disking the HoF off the flag to make a get away.


PS. I'm really not as hard pressed against the idea as I seem, but I do feel the need to play devil's advocate and make sure this change is done for the right reasons.



[EDIT: You know... you are really going to have to rethink the whole "a$$" thing being in the filter. ]
 
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I dunno, I have 4 different loadouts for HO in T2. 2 indoor and 2 outdoor depending on what i'm going to be doing. 2 of the loadouts have all 5 weapons, 1 has 4 and 1 only has 3. I like having the choice.

But then again, the more and more I read about T:V the more I have this feeling in my gut it's going for the stripped down, "arcade like" feel. Eh, we'll find out soon enough I guess.
 
4 Weapons for the heavy, having 3 isn't doing the Tribes heavy justice.

You are the tank, the juggy, the fat boy, having the same ammount of weapons as the light or even the med, is wrong. I think 5 maybe too much, in T2 I only ever used 4. But I did use all 4, and I like having those at my disposal.

To tell me that as a heavy I'm only going to have the option of 3 weapons will dissapoint me greatly as far as the game is concerned.
 
I'd like there to remain five, as long as selecting only 3 or 2 is still easy.

I personally don't like using excess weapons in heavy armor. I have two HO setups in T1 and T2 because 90% of the time carrying extra weapons just means free reloads for enemy players.

Edit:

I decided to make this post into one of my infamous huge posts. Herein is contained my opinions concerning armor weapon counts. These conclusions were reached after pub testing and a lot of critical thought.

There are three competing models...

The first is the 3,4,5 model, the second is the 3,3,4 model and the third is the 2,3,4 model. I would hope these names are self explanatory, but let us briefly discuss them anyways.

In the 3,4,5 model the light carries 3 weapons, the medium carries 4 weapons, and the heavy carries 5 weapons. You can extrapolate the nature of the other models. Now, let us discuss them.

The 3,4,5 model and CTF...

This is a pretty good model. We used it in T1 and T2. We should already know how it works, but let us give it a quick shakedown for the newbies.

  • The light armor carries 3 weapons, and falls into three general roles that I have anecdotally noted.

    1. The disc, chain, GL setup. With this loudout a player fights short range with the disc, long range with the GL, and in the air with the chaingun. This setup is generally used for LO or LD chasers.

    2. The disc, chain, laser rifle setup. With this loadout a player fights short range with the disc, long range with the laser rifle, and in the air with the chaingun. This setup is generally used for stay-home LD.

    3. The disc, laser, GL setup. With this loadout a player fights short range with the disc, long range with both the GL and laser rifle, and against air targets with the laser rifle. This is generally used by hybrid LD that stay home and give chase with high pings.

  • The medium armor carries 4 weapons, and has roles that utilize the disc, plasma, GL, and chaingun. Swap one of these weapons for the ELF if your like. These players are normally shielding and chaining (arena) or deploying or whatever.

  • The heavy armor carries 5 weapons, and has roles for everything, mostly pack based. Weapon selection really doesn't matter, though some people decide to cut back and use a smaller weapon selection. The mortar and disc are always taken in heavy loadouts.

There is a problem with this model. The light is excellent and diverse, but the medium already feels a little too diverse, and the heavy almost never needs to worry about weapon selection.

The 2,3,4 model...

This is a theoretical model, and one I presented a while back in a thread of mine. It has problems.

  • The light armor carries 2 weapons. I tried this model, and frankly, the light is too restricted. When I wanted to snipe, I really couldn't do much besides snipe. If I wanted to chaingun, then I basically could only chaingun. Because of the disc launcher's ability to disc jump, I discovered that I couldn't play effectively without one. Effectively, with two weapon slots, I had only one spare slot I could use to define my role. The light became too restricted; it wasn't worth using, because the roles I could play were downright terrible. In the end, the disc launcher chaingun combo was the only acceptable one; I could chase and duel with those weapons, though I couldn't fight effectively at long range.

  • The medium became the light. It was good and diverse. Unfortunately, the armor itself was still crap. Fix this T:V.

  • The heavy felt good. With the mortar and disc as given weapons, I had two spare weapon slots to work with, which made the secondary weapon choices very interesting.

Testing this model pointed me in a fresh direction. What made the original light so diverse, and then this heavy so diverse? What made this 2,3,4 light so weak? What made the 3,4,5 medium and heavy too generic?

I realized it was the number of "spare weapon slots" that defined the diversity of interesting roles; the number of actual weapon slots was unimportant. For example, with the 3,4,5 light, the light had one given - a disc launcher - leaving only two open slots for defining the player's role.

After poring over the evidence, I decided that ideally, armors with two spare weapon slots were interesting and diverse. With this in mind, I formulated the next model...

The 3,3,4 model...

This is the model I reccomend for T:V.

  • The light retains the diversity and interesting power of the last two games. It doesn't become so restricted as to become unnattractive.

  • The medium gets cut down a bit, so that weapon choices are as diverse and interesting as the light armor's choices.

  • The heavy gets cut down a bit. With two "given" weapons - the disc launcher and mortar - it also has two spare weapon slots, making it a diverse armor type.

Conclusion...

I HEARTILY RECCOMEND THAT LIGHTS HAVE 3 WEAPONS, MEDIUMS HAVE 3 WEAPONS, AND HEAVIES HAVE 4, BASED ON THE CONCLUSION THAT INTERESTING ROLE DIVERSITY SPRINGS FROM HAVING TWO OPTIONAL WEAPON SLOTS. THANK YOU FOR READING.
 
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It defeats the purpose of destroying Inventory stations if you're just going to hand deliver everything they need to the front door yourself.
 
See I'm thinking for more then just the HO setup... Sure as a HO I would probably end up using Gren, Mortar, Disk more then anything. But having the burner as a close up backup weapon is nice.

I'm personally thinking of the HoF and HD positions, where having "Chain, Mortar, Gren, and Disk" is almost crutial.

As much as I dislike bringing this to the table, Suicide Taxi was probably one of the better HoF's I've seen in the game for his inate ability to peg cappers as they were leaving with his flag with Mortars.... He didn't have to get direct shots, just glaring ones because he'd already chained the fudge out of them on their way in and out.

If you set the heavy max weapon load out at 3, you will severly diminish the effectiveness of the heavy in all roles.... 4 is a reasonabl #, and still leaves a good HO with the possibility of running out of ammo.
 
The ammo issue that is mentioned is rather puzzling to me. Why would you consider inducing an ammo problem in the Heavy... if you want the ammo to be a concern for any of the armours I would have thought the Light would be considered first. However, try suggesting the Light carry less "ammo"... like only 10 disks or only 5 grenades in the GL or... a choice between Mines and Greandes (but not both). Induce the condition in the heavy though? Seems like you're asking for trouble.
 
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Miracle said:
4h 3m 2l > *
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Personally, I'd like to see this or something simmilar at least tried... maybe (2, 3, 3)?

Giving the heavy only 3 weapons will decrease the effectiveness seriously I'd imagine. Any HoF or HO is going to want a mortar giving them only 2 real weapons slot choices... only one if they use a disc which most everone always does in t1 and t2 (though it could change I suppose).

It seems to me that would increase the simple "this counters this" factor... something I was under the impression was trying to be avoided.

Anyway, we should be open to new ideas, doesn't sound like something that would be brain surgery to change if it didn't turn out well.

Personally I think (3, 3, 4) or (3, 4, 4) might be a nice compromise.
 
I agree with Zooloo on the 3-3-4 method.

And the fact that the heavy just won't seem like a heavy with the same number of weapons as everyone else.

As always though, I reserve judgement until I try it myself, especially as Thrax even said it feels weird going back to 3-4-5 after playing 3-3-3. Who knows, maybe it all works out well anyhow.
 
I agree with zooloo's 3-3-4 post.

With only 3 weapons, you're going to need a poopload of favorites. A disc,mortar,gren fav. A disc,mortar,burner fav. A disc,mortar,unknown weapon fav. A disc, mortar,rocket launcher fav. A disc, mortar, chain fav. Just for the heavy
 
Note that if the medium only weapon (one of the two unannounced weapons) is so powerful and game effecting that all mediums must carry one or else be leauges less effective, then mediums will have to go up to 4 to leave them with two optional weapon slots. Since I doubt any new weapon - no matter how cool - will be as game changing as the mortar and disc launcher, I doubt this will be the case.

3-3-4 all the way.
 
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well, they did say that one of the new weapons adds a whole new dynamic to the game. what dynamic that is, no one knows. i doubt the burner adds that dynamic.
 
Sir Lucius said:
For some reason I really like that idea. Normally I think I might be against a weight clbutt system where some weapons take up more slots than others, but that's only because of the game's wepaon balance. But I would say the mortar is strong enough to permit such an implementation.
Click to expand...

If only the heavy can take the mortar, then I don't see the point.

Frankly, I don't see the need to change this at all from how it's always been. Was there some issue with HO or whatever carrying five weapons? How is that ridiculous? It's supposed to be a freakin' walking tank.

I think it sounds like an incredibly bad idea to have all armor types have the same amount of weapons. I can't believe it's even being considered. Like this was just such an issue in T1/T2 that it merited such a concern for change?

Bah.
 
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