so if there's a heaven, what is it like? if not, what happens to you when you die?

[Elg]

I could understand if some things were balanced and most were flawed but look at this. We are balanced in that we have systems in our bodies that work together to keep us alive. We have a system of reproduction that drives us to procreate and gives us a good feeling while doing so. That a woman has the ability to carry a baby in her for months and months..all the while feeding it while she eats. We have seaons on this earth and everything is balanced in nature. We have a consciousness. We think and feel, we have emotions. We have tears that flow when we cry.

All that from a random explosion in space...is unthinkable to me.

Why? All your examples are systems that have come into being through, evolution, through adaption to the environment around us, and we know how this could happen. All you need is a huge fucking coincidence. Why is it so hard to imagine such a concidence could happen? It is the easiest and most logical explanation. We don't need a god to explain how all you mention could happen, therefore it's kind of far fetched to pull a god into the mix. A huge fucking coincidence is a lot more probable than a logic-defying almighty god.

Disclaimer: I'm an agnostic, and I'm not saying there is no god, because I don't know. You might be right, that a god made this happen, but from what I'm seeing, I think a huge fucking coincidence is a lot more probable.

 

[DocHolliday]

idiot, its obviously a box seats to the yankees with 25 women of your choice

Can we choose to sell the box seats every game and blow it on drugs and liquor? If I was forced to watch the Yankees the rest of my life I would consider that hell, not heaven.

 

[DVADER]

through adaption to the environment around us

And where did this environment around us come from? The only way I can find that this can logically be, is that someone is not constrained to the scientific laws of this universe. Primarily, someone outside of the limitation of time (and as such, "infinite"). Death is just our escape from the grasp of time. It's the only logical explanation, yet my mind cannot comprehend it, much as it cannot comprehend nothingness.

 

[dubs]

All you need is a huge fucking coincidence. Why is it so hard to imagine such a concidence could happen? It is the easiest and most logical explanation. We don't need a god to explain how all you mention could happen, therefore it's kind of far fetched to pull a god into the mix. A huge fucking coincidence is a lot more probable than a logic-defying almighty god.

Just found this odd. Doesn't a coincidence imply improbability? I could be wrong here but coincidence seems like something that happens illogically. Wouldn't it be more logical to so say that earth should not exist, and life should not be here due to the enormous odds against it? Just thought it was funny that you said a "coincidence" is the easiest and most logical explanation. There's no point in my post except to point out something I found weird.

 

[lovlychica]

I believe there is a heaven, Not sure if I am going there. But, I don't particularly wanna burn for enternity either.

 

[Suegamer]

Genesis 2:7 The Lord God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being. <-----soul

Revelation 7:16-17 Never again will they hunger; never again will they thirst. The sun will not beat down upon them, nor any scorching heat. For the lamb (Jesus) at the center of the throne will be their shepherd; he will lead them to springs of living water. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes. <---- Heaven
Revelation 20:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them.
Revelation 20:18-27 The wall was made of Jasper, and the city of pure gold, as pure as glass. The foundations of the city walls were decorated with every kind of precious stone. The first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third chalcedony, the fourth emerald, the fifth sardonyx, the sixth carnelian, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst. The twelve gates were twelve pearls, each gate make of a single pearl. The great street of the city was of pure gold, like transparent glass. I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.
The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp. The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor unto it. On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there. The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it. Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.

There are a lot of verses in the bible that talk about what heaven will be like and about the souls of man. It's your choice to believe or not believe.

 

[tommehwut?]

a lot of people wonder what will happen to them after they die, and when you say "nothing. there is no afterlife", they say "then what happens? you just sit there? there's just black?" There won't be anything. No black. Just nothing. Void. It is hard to imagine, but I think it would be just like before you were born. Nothing.

 

[jerry]

i believe after death is like before conception

NOTHING

it is selfish to think we are so important that our consciousness ("souls") live forever

 

[Elg]

Just found this odd. Doesn't a coincidence imply improbability? I could be wrong here but coincidence seems like something that happens illogically. Wouldn't it be more logical to so say that earth should not exist, and life should not be here due to the enormous odds against it? Just thought it was funny that you said a "coincidence" is the easiest and most logical explanation. There's no point in my post except to point out something I found weird.

It is the easiest explanation. Concidences do happen, even though they are improbable. The improbability of this happening doesn't make it illogical. Adding god into the mix is just complicating things, because we know it COULD have happened by coincidence. And seeing it all in front of us is a big indication that that coincidence has occured.

 

[Elg]

And where did this environment around us come from? The only way I can find that this can logically be, is that someone is not constrained to the scientific laws of this universe. Primarily, someone outside of the limitation of time (and as such, "infinite"). Death is just our escape from the grasp of time. It's the only logical explanation, yet my mind cannot comprehend it, much as it cannot comprehend nothingness.

The environment around us is composed from the matter and energy unleashed in the big bang. I'm guessing you meant, where did all this matter and energy come from? When you say "come from" I guess you mean came into being, because that's the thing most people wonder about. And well, there is actually no reason to beleive it came into being at all. Energy doesn't dissipate, matter doesn't disappear. it all just changes form, into different kinds of energy. There is no indication that any of the energy around us has ever not been in existence. Actually, the laws of physics indicate it has always been there, and will remain forever, because energy disappearing into nothingness has never been observed, and energy appearing from nothing has never been observed.

Since everything indicates it has always been there (The matter and energy of the universe), there is no reason to explain it's appearance through a god, since there is no appearance to explain...

 

[DVADER]

Actually, the laws of physics indicate it has always been there

Sorry "it's always been there" doesn't do it for me. Everything in this universe has a beginning, "forever" is illogical, just as you cannot prove that something has no end (you'd have to wait forever to prove it, therefore making it impossible), you can't say that something has no begnning. As I said, I believe the laws of physics are merely laws that we, in this universe, bound by the hands of time, are limited by. But I think if you think outside these laws, outside of time itself, maybe it *is* possible for matter to be created and destroyed. Who can tell, it's not like you can go "there" and try it, it's not a time or a place, it's beyond times and places.

 

[CaptainZero]

Sorry "it's always been there" doesn't do it for me. Everything in this universe has a beginning, "forever" is illogical, just as you cannot prove that something has no end (you'd have to wait forever to prove it, therefore making it impossible), you can't say that something has no begnning. As I said, I believe the laws of physics are merely laws that we, in this universe, bound by the hands of time, are limited by. But I think if you think outside these laws, outside of time itself, maybe it *is* possible for matter to be created and destroyed. Who can tell, it's not like you can go "there" and try it, it's not a time or a place, it's beyond times and places.

I disagree that the concept of "forever" is illogical. Is it illogical to say that there is no number larger then X; there is no number smaller then -X? We can easily understand infinitity as it is related to a number line. It applies to both directions, negative and positive. The number zero being the present, positive numbers being years in the future, negative numbers being years in the past. When viewed from this perspective, there is no reason to believe that there ever was a begginging or will ever be an end to time.

If time exists forever, then there's no reason to not believe that matter has existed forever also.

If everything has a beggining, as you say, then where is God's beggining? If you can make God the exception of the rule, then why not make all matter the exception? Putting God in the equation is unnecessary, and illogical.

 

[Elg]

Everything in this universe has a beginning, "forever" is illogical, just as you cannot prove that something has no end (you'd have to wait forever to prove it, therefore making it impossible), you can't say that something has no begnning.

No you're wrong, nothing has a "beginning" in the sense that matters here. It is just energy changing forms, something can't come from nothing.

Actually, something coming from nothing has never ever been observed, so there's absolutely no reason to beleive it has ever happened or that it could happen. Beleiving this has happened doesn't help explain anything at all either, so it's a useless theory.

And here is a strange thing: most everyone agrees that something can't come from nothing. Yet still they beleive the Universe had to appear from nothing, then often try to explain it with a god.
But why? Why does everyone beleive this logic-defying appearance from nothing has had to happen?

 

[Valheru]

the fact that we have emmotions..and we laugh and cry and love and hate...that's not just chemicals... there's got to be more to it

Chemicals are exactly what it is. Why else do you think women pms'ing have emotions ^10. You think a higher power just likes fucking with females minds once a month?

 

[Ben Reed]

Heaven is Valhalla.

Beer, hot Valkyrie bitches, sparring with the universe's greatest warriors, and a big-ass battle royale at the end of existence.

 

[DVADER]

time isn't a number line, nice analogy, but it's not the same thing. illogical was the wrong word there, what i mean is, incomprehendable. We can't comprehend all the numbers either. We are limited, they are not. "God" in my theory/personal explanation is just that, one who is *not* limited. We can't comprehend this. I'm not making him the exception, he is God *because* he is the exception.

 

[kimrari]

some funny funny stuff in this thread.

you have people trying to say that the big bang occured on its own.

when you question them about where the matter came from, they say the matter always exsited.

they for some reason claim to belive that arbitrary matter and enery has always exsited, but they cant fathom an intelligent loving God that is the creator of the universe.

as of yet, no one can explain the several million coincidences which are our planet, enviroment, and biology.

yet, its a stretch to belive that God created the heavens and the earth and all that we see.

but heres some proof:

open the bible, and read the book of leviticus.

in it, you will readas God's instructions to the jews on conduct and cleanliness protocol. the jews were given information that prevents the spread of disease and bacteria thousands of years before we even know germs existed.

if anyone ever takes the time to seriously research the bible, you will come away with a full confidence that it is the infallible word of God.

 

[WinterFreshX]

some funny funny stuff in this thread.

you have people trying to say that the big bang occured on its own.

when you question them about where the matter came from, they say the matter always exsited.

they for some reason claim to belive that arbitrary matter and enery has always exsited, but they cant fathom an intelligent loving God that is the creator of the universe.

as of yet, no one can explain the several million coincidences which are our planet, enviroment, and biology.

yet, its a stretch to belive that God created the heavens and the earth and all that we see.

but heres some proof:

open the bible, and read the book of leviticus.

in it, you will readas God's instructions to the jews on conduct and cleanliness protocol. the jews were given information that prevents the spread of disease and bacteria thousands of years before we even know germs existed.

if anyone ever takes the time to seriously research the bible, you will come away with a full confidence that it is the infallible word of God.

when you question them about where God came from, they say God always exsited.

they for some reason claim to belive that an arbitrary energy and power has always exsited....

I think your reasoning not only questions his beliefs but also yours.

I'm not taking any sides here because I got no fricken clue. I'd like to believe that there is a higher power and I sometimes do believe it does exist. But the simple fact is that you're put here to live this damn life.

The whole notion of after life is of something eternal. Humanity has only existed for a very small fraction of time and like so many other species, sad to say, humanity will sometime down the road die out too. Time is limited for the living so use it damn it. PLAY TRIBES:V!!!!

 

[Valheru]

some funny funny stuff in this thread.

you have people trying to say that the big bang occured on its own.

when you question them about where the matter came from, they say the matter always exsited.

they for some reason claim to belive that arbitrary matter and enery has always exsited, but they cant fathom an intelligent loving God that is the creator of the universe.

as of yet, no one can explain the several million coincidences which are our planet, enviroment, and biology.

yet, its a stretch to belive that God created the heavens and the earth and all that we see.

but heres some proof:

open the bible, and read the book of leviticus.

in it, you will readas God's instructions to the jews on conduct and cleanliness protocol. the jews were given information that prevents the spread of disease and bacteria thousands of years before we even know germs existed.

if anyone ever takes the time to seriously research the bible, you will come away with a full confidence that it is the infallible word of God.

Proof is exactly what's lacking. Your bible consists of hundreds of stories, all from thousands of years ago, about how god created man and performed miracles. Tell me the last miracle that occurred? When was the last time God or any holy agent (Jesus, angels, etc) were ever seen? When you bring me one of those I'll start reading a book that was written by gawd knows who and gawd knows when (pun intended).

 

[CaptainZero]

Chemicals are exactly what it is. Why else do you think women pms'ing have emotions ^10. You think a higher power just likes fucking with females minds once a month?

That is an awesome counter argument. I'll have to remember that one.