[jobs] how many of you guys work in IT?
- Thread starter electratokyo
- Start date
The big thing about trades?
You can't outsource all your bricklaying to India. You can't buy a concrete pour off the 'net. If you're smart about it, and are prepared to put in a little manual work, you can make an absolute shitload of money out of trades, and you can do it anywhere you want.
You can't outsource all your bricklaying to India. You can't buy a concrete pour off the 'net. If you're smart about it, and are prepared to put in a little manual work, you can make an absolute shitload of money out of trades, and you can do it anywhere you want.
no..but you can outsource it to mexico...and mexico delivers.
I am sure it was because you aren't a Jew that you got passed over for promotion. It had absolutely nothing to do with you being the weird guy that's really into rollercoasters who complains about everything to anyone, or the type of worker who circumvents company network security so they can fuck around all day.
nooo..that couldnt be the reason!
I'll tell ya an IT story.
In 2001, I left a fairly comfortable life in New Orleans behind to pursue what I felt was a "more satisfying" career in IT-related things. In N.O. I ran a taxi/limousine business where I worked my own hours, lived in a party town, knew everyone and went everywhere, and made about 80K a year. (Which was phenomenal for New Orleans.)
I sold it all off and moved not only because I was sick of hot, sticky, beat-up New Orleans, but because I was looking for something more challenging. I had been involved peripherally with IT-related things for a few years, and that's where my interests really were, or at least a lot more than collecting cab and limousine rent all day was. When I moved I was involved in the WSBN stuff (which the old timers here remember), and just by natural progression I wound up moving to Reno and working on WSBN full time for about six months. During that time I got involved in every IT-related area imaginable, desktop things, networking things, server things, webhosting things, media streaming things, a mishmash of knowledge that I thought was enough to bring to a company and do something useful with, even if just at an entry level. (I really didn't care at what level I came in, even though I was 32 years old. I just wanted in.)
Well I was dead fucking wrong. I couldn't find a job to save my life, and it scared the living shit out of me. I was honest on my resume about my skills, work history, and ability, and as a result nobody wanted anything to do with me. (Who the hell wants an over-the-hill tech with no specialities?) Eventually, through a friend, I wound up working for Barnes & Noble's bigassed distribution center up here for 15 bucks an hour (entry level, mundane server & desktop support stuff) but I didn't care. I wasn't there for the money, I was there for the hands-on education. And during my time there I tore through their networking, server, and automation system basically picking their pocket for knowledge.
That eventually led to working at a photoprocessing plant, the Microsoft data center, and a homebuilding plant that I put together from the ground up.
Over the past five years I found out a few things -
The IT field is always the most envied but unappreciated group of any company. They are envied for their ability to "sit on their ass all day" until something breaks, unappreciated for the amount of study and work that actually goes into knowing IT, and then blamed for everything if something breaks or goes wrong.
Also, the IT field is staffed by some of the biggest socially-impaired idiots on the planet. The kind of people that created the stereotype of the "clueless geek" to begin with. The kind that don't know jack shit about anything outside of computers, have little social skills, have even worse interpersonal skills, and are generally spineless, wimpy, clueless, irrational people. (Not all, of course, but enough!)
On top of that, there is a pathetically disjointed relationship between the HR department of a company and the IT department. HR, being bound by their own particular hiring guidelines, generally don't have a clue what to look for in IT people. How it works is some HR nitwit with a checklist in front of him/her doesn't really know what the criteria of a "good IT person" is, they just want to know if you have this or that certification. Regardless if the certification is absolutely meaningless, (which they usually are), regardless if you have more experience than three of their existing techs combined, and regardless if it's obvious you are the type that can learn something you aren't experienced with yet in record time. All that means nothing, the HR person will ask "Do you have XXX certification?", and if it's "no", the resume goes in the garbage. Whereas if you would talk to the IT manager at the start, you would probably get the job.
The IT field, as a whole, is staffed by three kinds of people. One, the people who actually know wassup, who run the place, who solve the problems, who make things happen. Two, the textbook-with-feet guys who are so steeped in books, certifications, and the "appearance" of being technicians that it takes them five times longer to finish anything because they do everything "by the book" and who can't troubleshoot for SHIT because, when it comes down to it, they really don't know shit about the practical knowledge of information technology. Then the third group is the corporate lackey, who knows just enough to be considered "IT", but is generally a self-serving ladder-crawler, kissing ass to the right people and putting on just enough of a front to make their way up.
IT generally reminds me of the military. Think of... the movie Platoon. You got some numbnut doing everything by the book, packing to go out on a mission, and Willam Defoe's character "Elias" (who would be group #1 in my example) coming up and going, "Okay, you don't need this... shitcan that... don't need that... take this with you... okay... NOW let's go." And in charge of it all is some numbnut lieutenant who is more of an administrator than a soldier, probably making them storm the wrong hill.
On top of it all, the jobs out there aren't what they used to be. There's the entry-level "desktop support" types that will make anyone with any intelligence blow their fucking brains out in about a week that are worth about 10 - 14 bucks an hour, then "administrator" positions above them at like 14 - 17 an hour, and then for the more versatile they have server/networking positions that go anywhere from 17 - 25 an hour. Along the way you'll be asked to learn and study a multitude of different technologies, whether it be a specific software, database, whatever, and be asked to support that as well. Then if you show any kind of actual aptitude for your job, you'll be asked to fix blackberrys, phones, home internet connections, satellite dishes, and every other fucking thing in the company.
The majority of IT jobs consist of what I just mentioned. IT, in general, sucks. If you're smart, you'll specialize in one thing and one thing only, be it programming, VOIP, 3D modeling, graphics, something that narrows your skills and worth. What I wound up doing was getting into the building controls industry, implementing a software called "Tridium" into hotels, office buildings, convention centers, schools, etc. It was a long, fucked up, frustrating, and tiring five year road to do it, but I wound up in Las Vegas making $65 an hour on my own schedule, working out of my house most of the time, creating 3D graphics for user interfaces and configuring the Tridium system. I'm about to launch my own company and not be a subcontractor for others anymore, and my rate will go up to $105 an hour. It's pretty decent cake, and I don't regret the education I gave myself over the past five years, but it was a bitch to get here. A bitch of bitches. And my case is also a complete exception to the rule, too - every guy I've known in my personal life and who I've worked with, they are all in the exact same spot they have been in during those five years. Some have gotten raises, some have switched jobs, but mostly they are doing the same shit for the same pay they were doing five years ago.
F that.
Unless you plan on directing your attention to a particular area of in-demand and lucrative expertise, don't waste your fucking time in IT. There's more money to be made elsewhere.
In 2001, I left a fairly comfortable life in New Orleans behind to pursue what I felt was a "more satisfying" career in IT-related things. In N.O. I ran a taxi/limousine business where I worked my own hours, lived in a party town, knew everyone and went everywhere, and made about 80K a year. (Which was phenomenal for New Orleans.)
I sold it all off and moved not only because I was sick of hot, sticky, beat-up New Orleans, but because I was looking for something more challenging. I had been involved peripherally with IT-related things for a few years, and that's where my interests really were, or at least a lot more than collecting cab and limousine rent all day was. When I moved I was involved in the WSBN stuff (which the old timers here remember), and just by natural progression I wound up moving to Reno and working on WSBN full time for about six months. During that time I got involved in every IT-related area imaginable, desktop things, networking things, server things, webhosting things, media streaming things, a mishmash of knowledge that I thought was enough to bring to a company and do something useful with, even if just at an entry level. (I really didn't care at what level I came in, even though I was 32 years old. I just wanted in.)
Well I was dead fucking wrong. I couldn't find a job to save my life, and it scared the living shit out of me. I was honest on my resume about my skills, work history, and ability, and as a result nobody wanted anything to do with me. (Who the hell wants an over-the-hill tech with no specialities?) Eventually, through a friend, I wound up working for Barnes & Noble's bigassed distribution center up here for 15 bucks an hour (entry level, mundane server & desktop support stuff) but I didn't care. I wasn't there for the money, I was there for the hands-on education. And during my time there I tore through their networking, server, and automation system basically picking their pocket for knowledge.
That eventually led to working at a photoprocessing plant, the Microsoft data center, and a homebuilding plant that I put together from the ground up.
Over the past five years I found out a few things -
The IT field is always the most envied but unappreciated group of any company. They are envied for their ability to "sit on their ass all day" until something breaks, unappreciated for the amount of study and work that actually goes into knowing IT, and then blamed for everything if something breaks or goes wrong.
Also, the IT field is staffed by some of the biggest socially-impaired idiots on the planet. The kind of people that created the stereotype of the "clueless geek" to begin with. The kind that don't know jack shit about anything outside of computers, have little social skills, have even worse interpersonal skills, and are generally spineless, wimpy, clueless, irrational people. (Not all, of course, but enough!)
On top of that, there is a pathetically disjointed relationship between the HR department of a company and the IT department. HR, being bound by their own particular hiring guidelines, generally don't have a clue what to look for in IT people. How it works is some HR nitwit with a checklist in front of him/her doesn't really know what the criteria of a "good IT person" is, they just want to know if you have this or that certification. Regardless if the certification is absolutely meaningless, (which they usually are), regardless if you have more experience than three of their existing techs combined, and regardless if it's obvious you are the type that can learn something you aren't experienced with yet in record time. All that means nothing, the HR person will ask "Do you have XXX certification?", and if it's "no", the resume goes in the garbage. Whereas if you would talk to the IT manager at the start, you would probably get the job.
The IT field, as a whole, is staffed by three kinds of people. One, the people who actually know wassup, who run the place, who solve the problems, who make things happen. Two, the textbook-with-feet guys who are so steeped in books, certifications, and the "appearance" of being technicians that it takes them five times longer to finish anything because they do everything "by the book" and who can't troubleshoot for SHIT because, when it comes down to it, they really don't know shit about the practical knowledge of information technology. Then the third group is the corporate lackey, who knows just enough to be considered "IT", but is generally a self-serving ladder-crawler, kissing ass to the right people and putting on just enough of a front to make their way up.
IT generally reminds me of the military. Think of... the movie Platoon. You got some numbnut doing everything by the book, packing to go out on a mission, and Willam Defoe's character "Elias" (who would be group #1 in my example) coming up and going, "Okay, you don't need this... shitcan that... don't need that... take this with you... okay... NOW let's go." And in charge of it all is some numbnut lieutenant who is more of an administrator than a soldier, probably making them storm the wrong hill.
On top of it all, the jobs out there aren't what they used to be. There's the entry-level "desktop support" types that will make anyone with any intelligence blow their fucking brains out in about a week that are worth about 10 - 14 bucks an hour, then "administrator" positions above them at like 14 - 17 an hour, and then for the more versatile they have server/networking positions that go anywhere from 17 - 25 an hour. Along the way you'll be asked to learn and study a multitude of different technologies, whether it be a specific software, database, whatever, and be asked to support that as well. Then if you show any kind of actual aptitude for your job, you'll be asked to fix blackberrys, phones, home internet connections, satellite dishes, and every other fucking thing in the company.
The majority of IT jobs consist of what I just mentioned. IT, in general, sucks. If you're smart, you'll specialize in one thing and one thing only, be it programming, VOIP, 3D modeling, graphics, something that narrows your skills and worth. What I wound up doing was getting into the building controls industry, implementing a software called "Tridium" into hotels, office buildings, convention centers, schools, etc. It was a long, fucked up, frustrating, and tiring five year road to do it, but I wound up in Las Vegas making $65 an hour on my own schedule, working out of my house most of the time, creating 3D graphics for user interfaces and configuring the Tridium system. I'm about to launch my own company and not be a subcontractor for others anymore, and my rate will go up to $105 an hour. It's pretty decent cake, and I don't regret the education I gave myself over the past five years, but it was a bitch to get here. A bitch of bitches. And my case is also a complete exception to the rule, too - every guy I've known in my personal life and who I've worked with, they are all in the exact same spot they have been in during those five years. Some have gotten raises, some have switched jobs, but mostly they are doing the same shit for the same pay they were doing five years ago.
F that.
Unless you plan on directing your attention to a particular area of in-demand and lucrative expertise, don't waste your fucking time in IT. There's more money to be made elsewhere.
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I work in support but am working on networking (not the computer kind) and trying to move into a more managerial/director sort of position. Gotten 3 changes in my job title and 2 promotions in the past year, working for my next one within the next 6 months, probably sooner than that. Hopefully a new project will open up soon and I can try to jump on that.
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That's fine, laugh at me all you want, but the stereotypes are there. What happened to me could be compared to women getting high paying CEO jobs. Or a black coach in the NFL. A handful of people will say it can be done and to shut up about the stereotypes, but they exist.
Me having a roller coaster web site had nothing to do with the data warehouse job. It's all about who you know and the doors that open. For me, no doors open. Do you think data warehouse is really complicated? No, it's fucking rows and columns, and they complicated with terms like star schema and universe. Anyone can learn that shit if given the chance. It's not hard when you spend 8 hours a day doing it.
Read threads where people rant about their boss and most of the time, the programmers know far more than the manager. Yet the manager gets paid the six figure salary, along with all the perks that go with it.
Don't be a programming monkey, it's not worth it.
Me having a roller coaster web site had nothing to do with the data warehouse job. It's all about who you know and the doors that open. For me, no doors open. Do you think data warehouse is really complicated? No, it's fucking rows and columns, and they complicated with terms like star schema and universe. Anyone can learn that shit if given the chance. It's not hard when you spend 8 hours a day doing it.
Read threads where people rant about their boss and most of the time, the programmers know far more than the manager. Yet the manager gets paid the six figure salary, along with all the perks that go with it.
Don't be a programming monkey, it's not worth it.
Wrathchild
Veteran XV
ST's assessment is dead-on, and makes me 
If I were to suggest a field in IT to work towards, it would probably be dba related. Oracle will continue to be huge I think.
If I were to suggest a field in IT to work towards, it would probably be dba related. Oracle will continue to be huge I think.
Me either.
if you want to go into it, point for dba. You can start out as a support rep, but most likely you're going to be on the phone. If you have to go on the phone, go for an internal help desk position. there is a huge difference between talking to joe general public and to an internal employee. Both may be equally inept, but when joe general public is having a shitty day, they will make sure you have a shitty day, on top of outrageous demands.
If you're internal, for the most part, when someone's shit breaks and they call it, they arent particularly pissed off because they dont have to work 'it is fixing it', which loosely translates to 'i'm going to sit here, drink my coffee and bs/text/email/im, etc, etc and i can because 'it is fixing it''. Plus if they get real bitchy...you probably have email and phone contact with their manager. That's sort of the it version of 'an armed society is a polite society' mentality.
but dba is where the party is, and network security as well. I know a lot of guys down here that have a decent paying job doing network admin jobs and then have a consulting side gig for network security. Every time I'm up north when i look in the classifieds there (ohio) oracle dba's can pretty much write their own checks.
a lot of it is knowing someone. There's a guy where i am, making the same money i am, working crappier hours than i do, and he has mcse, a+, mos, and a handful of dell certs. I dont think he'll stay long, i'm just wondering what the fuck is he doing here in the first place, on the phones no less.
If you're internal, for the most part, when someone's shit breaks and they call it, they arent particularly pissed off because they dont have to work 'it is fixing it', which loosely translates to 'i'm going to sit here, drink my coffee and bs/text/email/im, etc, etc and i can because 'it is fixing it''. Plus if they get real bitchy...you probably have email and phone contact with their manager. That's sort of the it version of 'an armed society is a polite society' mentality.
but dba is where the party is, and network security as well. I know a lot of guys down here that have a decent paying job doing network admin jobs and then have a consulting side gig for network security. Every time I'm up north when i look in the classifieds there (ohio) oracle dba's can pretty much write their own checks.
a lot of it is knowing someone. There's a guy where i am, making the same money i am, working crappier hours than i do, and he has mcse, a+, mos, and a handful of dell certs. I dont think he'll stay long, i'm just wondering what the fuck is he doing here in the first place, on the phones no less.
If doors don't open for you, the reason will be viewable in your bathroom mirror.
The only person that is going to make anything happen for you, is you. Say whatever you want, but that is the bottom line.
no dude, he's right, there's totally a glass ceiling in corporate america for white, english-speaking men.
My advice is to get a computer engineering degree/electrical engineering and do either development or engineering. If you aren't doing either of those and you aren't a high level admin, IT is really a crappy field.
Currently I am 3rd level support for the company I work for, which basically means the lower two levels just defer to me from the get-go. I make a decent salary, but in the end even 100k is peanuts in the large scheme of things.
I am planning on starting my own company soon. I really feel that if you aren't positioned to be an executive by the time you are 35 it isn't ever going to happen. I'm 31 and I don't see anything going on where I am at currently. Previous to this position I was a consulting manager over 5 consultants. Consulting is great, but it wears you down really quickly, you can't do it for long unless you are just insane or pop pills.
If I could do it all over again, I would have not wasted so much time when I was in school, aced everything, and be working on a PhD at a prestigious university so I could parlay that at Google, Microsoft, Yahoo, wherever. One of my best friends that I helped get through countless courses just graduated with a PhD in Genetics from Berkeley and will probably be working at Genentech soon, meanwhile I'm here doing douchework.
I don't want to discourage you though, because in this country truly anything is possible, but you might find that there are far more opportunities in small business of any flavor (taxis, IT, really anything you can dream of), than in the corporate world.
Currently I am 3rd level support for the company I work for, which basically means the lower two levels just defer to me from the get-go. I make a decent salary, but in the end even 100k is peanuts in the large scheme of things.
I am planning on starting my own company soon. I really feel that if you aren't positioned to be an executive by the time you are 35 it isn't ever going to happen. I'm 31 and I don't see anything going on where I am at currently. Previous to this position I was a consulting manager over 5 consultants. Consulting is great, but it wears you down really quickly, you can't do it for long unless you are just insane or pop pills.
If I could do it all over again, I would have not wasted so much time when I was in school, aced everything, and be working on a PhD at a prestigious university so I could parlay that at Google, Microsoft, Yahoo, wherever. One of my best friends that I helped get through countless courses just graduated with a PhD in Genetics from Berkeley and will probably be working at Genentech soon, meanwhile I'm here doing douchework.
I don't want to discourage you though, because in this country truly anything is possible, but you might find that there are far more opportunities in small business of any flavor (taxis, IT, really anything you can dream of), than in the corporate world.
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Wrathchild
Veteran XV
wtf