Hey Al muktard, wheres your outrage?

okay so

fundamentalists aren't just killing fellow muslims but actual christians as well??

why would -specifically- muslims be required to kick up a fuss about this (while their own people are getting murdered equally horrifically by the same people) in order to tick off a box on your fairness list

theocratic/fundamentalist islamism is a direct result of the skew in islamic politics over the last 50 years produced by the superpowers arming the more batshit/tribal people in nominally islamic countries to fight proxy wars

it is no surprise that these isolated elements (isolated from the rest of islamic society because of their extremist/regressive fundamentalist beliefs), once armed, go fucking #ham on everybody else who, remember, rejected them anyway

fundamentalists are bad for everyone

[edit] and the actual subtext to your question is 'NOW IT'S UNFAIR BECAUSE CHRISTIANS'
 
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okay so

fundamentalists aren't just killing fellow muslims but actual christians as well??

why would -specifically- muslims be required to kick up a fuss about this (while their own people are getting murdered equally horrifically by the same people) in order to tick off a box on your fairness list

theocratic/fundamentalist islamism is a direct result of the skew in islamic politics over the last 50 years produced by the superpowers arming the more batshit/tribal people in nominally islamic countries to fight proxy wars

it is no surprise that these isolated elements (isolated from the rest of islamic society because of their extremist/regressive fundamentalist beliefs), once armed, go fucking #ham on everybody else who, remember, rejected them anyway

fundamentalists are bad for everyone

[edit] and the actual subtext to your question is 'NOW IT'S UNFAIR BECAUSE CHRISTIANS'

fair enough, they are killing everyone..

my next question then is, when the fuck are you so called moderates going to take back your fucking lives and religion and stop blaming america and everyone else?

seriously, you blamed saddam on the USA. so then in the 90s we pushed him back, but nobody wanted to take him out. so we didnt.

then we got all fuking antsy and took him out anyway, based on some WMD that may or may not have existed, with the secondary arguement that he killed hundreds of thousands of shiites after 91.(which is not disputable) and that those people were being oppressed(again not disputable).

we go in and kill Saddam.

we then push for democratic elections..

we also invite the sunni minority to join even though they were the ones who benefitted from Saddam being in power.

they didnt want too...ok

so then the shiites took like complete control..

and cozied right up to Iran.

now considering they had been oppressed for years, one would hope they would have learned from that shit, and realized an inclusive tolerant government would be best.

oh no, cant have that. fuck you americans..

ok

fast forward to now, and a splinter group, so fucked up Alqaeda dont want to associate with them, arrives.

by the hundreds...

not thousands

not tens of thousands

but hundreds.

all sunni, all wanting to murder everyone...not sunni.

all americas fault again, somehow.

anyway, instead of fighting them with the military trained by america and Iran, they all fucking run like little bitches.

then they lose like half the country in DAYS. fuck america

oh wait, um hey could you send some help america, ya know cause um, well this is all your fault!

jeezus fucking christ.

at some point you fuckups over there need to take control of your own fucking destiny, stop blaming everyone else, or just admit you are fairly fucking worthless to the world.
 
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it's kind of hard to respond in detail to something as misapprehended as that wall of idiocy

but basically here's an idea: read and learn more about the situation from a viewpoint outside of the one that you just constructed that post from within

the main problem with americans and understanding this situation is that they only ever try to understand it from an american perspective

watch some news in french with subtitles

read a book on the conflict by an arab

shit, read orientalism by edward said

stop thinking you can comprehend or even properly begin to deconstruct a situation for which the only information you have is produced and packaged for you by an american corporate media in order to sell advertising: even with the best of intentions and scrupulous attention to detail, it'll never give you anything like a proper picture
 
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Pretty sure you've got enough outrage for everyone, as fundamentalists usually do. .

killing everyone..

when the fuck are you so called moderates going to take back your fucking lives and religion and stop blaming america and everyone else?. .


. . .kill Saddam.

. .oh no, cant have that. fuck you americans..

. . .ok. .

so fucked up Alqaeda dont want to associate with them, arrives.

. . ok. ..

. . .murder everyone...

all americas fault again, somehow.. . .all fucking run like little bitches.

fuck america

jeezus fucking christ.

at some point you fuckups over there need to take control of your own fucking destiny, stop blaming everyone else, or just admit you are fairly fucking worthless to the world.

Nobody is saying what the fundamentalists do is right, but I don't post every time an abortion clinic is bombed by one of yours, I don't post every time some poor Arab 14 year old was raped and stoned by her family afterward.

You're calling him "muktard" while parading the Christian banner and asking why everyone isn't as bloodthirsty as you.
 
3. In the Spring of 1982, Iraq teetered on the brink of losing its
war with Iran. In May and June, 1982, the Iranians discovered a gap in
the Iraqi defenses along the Iran-Iraq border between Baghdad to the north
and Basra to the south. Iran positioned a massive invasion force directly
across from the gap in the Iraqi defenses. An Iranian breakthrough at the
spot would have cutoff Baghdad from Basra and would have resulted in
Iraq's defeat.

4. United States Intelligence, including satellite imagery, had
detected both the gap in the Iraqi defenses and the Iranian massing of
troops across from the gap. At the time, the United States was officially
neutral in the Iran-Iraq conflict.

5. President Reagan was forced to choose between (a) maintaining
strict neutrality and allowing Iran to defeat Iraq, or (b) intervening and
providing assistance to Iraq.

6. In June, 1982, President Reagan decided that the United States
could not afford to allow Iraq to lose the war to Iran. President Reagan
decided that the United States would do whatever was necessary and legal
to prevent Iraq from losing the war with Iran. President Reagan formalized
this policy by issuing a National Security Decision Directive ("NSDD") to
this effect in June, 1982. I have personal knowledge of this NSDD because
I co-authored the NSDD with another NSC Staff Member, Geoff Kemp. The
NSDD, including even its indentifying number, is classified.

7. CIA Director Casey personally spearheaded the effort to ensure
that Iraq had sufficient military weapons, ammunition and vehicles to
avoid losing the Iran-Iraq war. Pursuant to the secred NSDD, the United
States actively supported the Iraqi war effort by supplying the Iraqis
with billions of dollars of credits, by providing U.S. military
intelligence and advice to the Iraqis, and by closely monitoring third
country arms sales to Iraq to make sure that Iraq had the military
weaponry required. The United States also provided strategic operational
advice to the Iraqis to better use their assets in combat. For example,
in 1986, President Reagan sent a secret message to Saddam Hussein telling
him that Iraq should step up its air war and bombing of Iran. This
message was delivered by Vice President Bush who communicated it to
Egyptian President Mubarak, who in turn passed the message to Saddam
Hussein. Similar strategic operational military advice was passed to
Saddam Hussein through various meetings with European and Middle Eastern
heads of state. I authored Bush's talking points for the 1986 meeting
with Mubarak and personally attended numerous meetings with European and
Middle East heads of state where the strategic operational advice was
communicated.

8. I personally attended meetings in which CIA Director Casey or
CIA Deputy Director Gates noted the need for Iraq to have certain weapons
such as cluster bombs and anti-armor penetrators in order to stave off the
Iranian attacks. When I joined the NSC staff in early 1982, CIA Director
Casey was adamant that cluster bombs were a perfect "force multiplier"
that would allow the Iraqis to defend against the "human waves" of Iranian
attackers. I recorded those comments in the minutes of National Security
Planning Group ("NSPG") meetings in which Casey or Gates participated.

9. The CIA, including both CIA Director Casey and Deputy Director
Gates, knew of, approved of, and assisted in the sale of non-U.S. origin
military weapons, ammunition and vehicles to Iraq. My notes, memoranda
and other documents in my NSC files show or tend to show that the CIA knew
of, approved of, and assisted in the sale of non-U.S. origin military
weapons, munitions and vehicles to Iraq.

10. The United States was anxious to have other countries supply
assistance to Iraq. For example, in 1984, the Israelis concluded that
Iran was more dangerous than Iraq to Israel's existence due to the growing
Iranian influence and presence in Lebanon. The Israelis approached the
United States in a meeting in Jerusalem that I attended with Donald
Rumsfeld. Israeli Foreign Minister Yitzhak Shamir asked Rumsfeld if the
United States would deliver a secret offer of Israeli assistance to Iraq.
The United States agreed. I travelled wtih Rumsfeld to Baghdad and was
present at the meeting in which Rumsfeld told Iraqi Foreign Minister Tariq
Aziz about Israel's offer of assistance. Aziz refused even to accept the
Israelis' letter to Hussein offering assistance, because Aziz told us that
he would be executed on the spot by Hussein if he did so.

11. One of the reasons that the United States refused to license
or sell U.S. origin weapons to Iraq was that the supply of non-U.S. origin
weapons to Iraq was sufficient to meet Iraq's needs. Under CIA DIrector
Casey and Deputy Director Gates, the CIA made sure that non-U.S.
manufacturers manufactured and sold to Iraq the weapons needed by Iraq.
In certain instances where a key component in a weapon was not readily
available, the highest levels of the United States government decided to
make the component available, directly or indirectly, to Iraq. I
specifically recall that the provision of anti-armor penetrators to Iraq
was a case in point. The United States made a policy decision to supply
penetrators to Iraq. My notes, memoranda and other documents in my NSC
files will contain references to the Iraqis' need for anti-armor
penetrators and the decision to provide penetrators to Iraq.

12. Most of the Iraqi's military hardware was of Soviet origin.
Regular United States or NATO ammunition and spare parts could not be used
in this Soviet weaponry.

13. The United States and the CIA maintained a program known as
the 'Bear Spares" program whereby the United States made sure that spare
parts and ammunition for Soviet or Soviet-style weaponry were available to
countries which sought to reduce their dependence on the Soviets for
defense needs. If the "Bear Spares" were manufactured outside the United
States, then the United States could arrange for the provision of these
weapons to a third country without direct involvement. Israel, for
example, had a very large stockpile of Soviet weaponry and ammunition
captured during its various wars. At the suggestion of the United States,
the Israelis would transfer the spare parts and weapons to third countries
or insurgent movements (such as the Afghan rebels and the Contras).
Similarly, Egypt manufactured weapons and spare parts from Soviet designs
and porvided these weapons and ammunition to the Iraqis and other
countries. Egypt also served as a supplier for the Bear Spares program.
The United States approved, assisted and encouraged Egypt's manufacturing
capabilities. The United States approved, assisted and encouraged Egypt's
sale of weaponry, munitions and vehicles to Iraq.

14. The mere request to a third party to carry out an action did
not constitute a "covert action," and, accordingly, required no
Presidential Finding or reporting to Congress. The supply of Cardoen
cluster bombs, which were fitted for use on Soviet, French and NATO
aircraft, was a mere extension fo the United States policy of assisting
Iraq through all legal means in order to avoid an Iranian victory.
 
it's kind of hard to respond in detail to something as misapprehended as that wall of idiocy

but basically here's an idea: read and learn more about the situation from a viewpoint outside of the one that you just constructed that post from within

the main problem with americans and understanding this situation is that they only ever try to understand it from an american perspective

watch some news in french with subtitles

read a book on the conflict by an arab

shit, read orientalism by edward said

stop thinking you can comprehend or even properly begin to deconstruct a situation for which the only information you have is produced and packaged for you by an american corporate media in order to sell advertising: even with the best of intentions and scrupulous attention to detail, it'll never give you anything like a proper picture

first of all i cant write a fucking book to put everything the way you want me to present it, so i dumb it down to a simple over encompassing generalization with the most basic of explaination. yes there are all kinds of small and large things going on behind the scenes, from the shiites and the groups who were vieing for control and any given point.


however, while you want to get caught up in all the whys, ifs, and whatevers of every situation, im trying to focus on the overall.


at WHAT POINT DO YOU STOP BLAMING EVERYONE AND TAKE CONTROL OF YOUR OWN DESTINIES?

quit fucking getting caught up in the small details, whether what i said was dead nuts or wayyyy out in left field is fucking irrelevant.

all you ever fucking do is blame everyone.

in one way you think America is capable of keeping the whole mideast down, and in another we are completely inept( i mean seriously, we fucked up in afghanistan, iraq, egypt, syria,etc)

but regardless of what we do its OUR fault. if we do something its bad, if we dont do something its bad, if we choose this saide were bad, if we choose the other side we're bad, if we choose neither side we're bad, if we choose both sides we're bad, holy fuck..

maybe at some point you need to actually look at it from our perspective?

or is that just wrong cause were all so stupid?
 
3. In the Spring of 1982, Iraq teetered on the brink of losing its
war with Iran. In May and June, 1982, the Iranians discovered a gap in
the Iraqi defenses along the Iran-Iraq border between Baghdad to the north
and Basra to the south. Iran positioned a massive invasion force directly
across from the gap in the Iraqi defenses. An Iranian breakthrough at the
spot would have cutoff Baghdad from Basra and would have resulted in
Iraq's defeat.

4. United States Intelligence, including satellite imagery, had
detected both the gap in the Iraqi defenses and the Iranian massing of
troops across from the gap. At the time, the United States was officially
neutral in the Iran-Iraq conflict.

5. President Reagan was forced to choose between (a) maintaining
strict neutrality and allowing Iran to defeat Iraq, or (b) intervening and
providing assistance to Iraq.

6. In June, 1982, President Reagan decided that the United States
could not afford to allow Iraq to lose the war to Iran. President Reagan
decided that the United States would do whatever was necessary and legal
to prevent Iraq from losing the war with Iran. President Reagan formalized
this policy by issuing a National Security Decision Directive ("NSDD") to
this effect in June, 1982. I have personal knowledge of this NSDD because
I co-authored the NSDD with another NSC Staff Member, Geoff Kemp. The
NSDD, including even its indentifying number, is classified.

7. CIA Director Casey personally spearheaded the effort to ensure
that Iraq had sufficient military weapons, ammunition and vehicles to
avoid losing the Iran-Iraq war. Pursuant to the secred NSDD, the United
States actively supported the Iraqi war effort by supplying the Iraqis
with billions of dollars of credits, by providing U.S. military
intelligence and advice to the Iraqis, and by closely monitoring third
country arms sales to Iraq to make sure that Iraq had the military
weaponry required. The United States also provided strategic operational
advice to the Iraqis to better use their assets in combat. For example,
in 1986, President Reagan sent a secret message to Saddam Hussein telling
him that Iraq should step up its air war and bombing of Iran. This
message was delivered by Vice President Bush who communicated it to
Egyptian President Mubarak, who in turn passed the message to Saddam
Hussein. Similar strategic operational military advice was passed to
Saddam Hussein through various meetings with European and Middle Eastern
heads of state. I authored Bush's talking points for the 1986 meeting
with Mubarak and personally attended numerous meetings with European and
Middle East heads of state where the strategic operational advice was
communicated.

8. I personally attended meetings in which CIA Director Casey or
CIA Deputy Director Gates noted the need for Iraq to have certain weapons
such as cluster bombs and anti-armor penetrators in order to stave off the
Iranian attacks. When I joined the NSC staff in early 1982, CIA Director
Casey was adamant that cluster bombs were a perfect "force multiplier"
that would allow the Iraqis to defend against the "human waves" of Iranian
attackers. I recorded those comments in the minutes of National Security
Planning Group ("NSPG") meetings in which Casey or Gates participated.

9. The CIA, including both CIA Director Casey and Deputy Director
Gates, knew of, approved of, and assisted in the sale of non-U.S. origin
military weapons, ammunition and vehicles to Iraq. My notes, memoranda
and other documents in my NSC files show or tend to show that the CIA knew
of, approved of, and assisted in the sale of non-U.S. origin military
weapons, munitions and vehicles to Iraq.

10. The United States was anxious to have other countries supply
assistance to Iraq. For example, in 1984, the Israelis concluded that
Iran was more dangerous than Iraq to Israel's existence due to the growing
Iranian influence and presence in Lebanon. The Israelis approached the
United States in a meeting in Jerusalem that I attended with Donald
Rumsfeld. Israeli Foreign Minister Yitzhak Shamir asked Rumsfeld if the
United States would deliver a secret offer of Israeli assistance to Iraq.
The United States agreed. I travelled wtih Rumsfeld to Baghdad and was
present at the meeting in which Rumsfeld told Iraqi Foreign Minister Tariq
Aziz about Israel's offer of assistance. Aziz refused even to accept the
Israelis' letter to Hussein offering assistance, because Aziz told us that
he would be executed on the spot by Hussein if he did so.

11. One of the reasons that the United States refused to license
or sell U.S. origin weapons to Iraq was that the supply of non-U.S. origin
weapons to Iraq was sufficient to meet Iraq's needs. Under CIA DIrector
Casey and Deputy Director Gates, the CIA made sure that non-U.S.
manufacturers manufactured and sold to Iraq the weapons needed by Iraq.
In certain instances where a key component in a weapon was not readily
available, the highest levels of the United States government decided to
make the component available, directly or indirectly, to Iraq. I
specifically recall that the provision of anti-armor penetrators to Iraq
was a case in point. The United States made a policy decision to supply
penetrators to Iraq. My notes, memoranda and other documents in my NSC
files will contain references to the Iraqis' need for anti-armor
penetrators and the decision to provide penetrators to Iraq.

12. Most of the Iraqi's military hardware was of Soviet origin.
Regular United States or NATO ammunition and spare parts could not be used
in this Soviet weaponry.

13. The United States and the CIA maintained a program known as
the 'Bear Spares" program whereby the United States made sure that spare
parts and ammunition for Soviet or Soviet-style weaponry were available to
countries which sought to reduce their dependence on the Soviets for
defense needs. If the "Bear Spares" were manufactured outside the United
States, then the United States could arrange for the provision of these
weapons to a third country without direct involvement. Israel, for
example, had a very large stockpile of Soviet weaponry and ammunition
captured during its various wars. At the suggestion of the United States,
the Israelis would transfer the spare parts and weapons to third countries
or insurgent movements (such as the Afghan rebels and the Contras).
Similarly, Egypt manufactured weapons and spare parts from Soviet designs
and porvided these weapons and ammunition to the Iraqis and other
countries. Egypt also served as a supplier for the Bear Spares program.
The United States approved, assisted and encouraged Egypt's manufacturing
capabilities. The United States approved, assisted and encouraged Egypt's
sale of weaponry, munitions and vehicles to Iraq.

14. The mere request to a third party to carry out an action did
not constitute a "covert action," and, accordingly, required no
Presidential Finding or reporting to Congress. The supply of Cardoen
cluster bombs, which were fitted for use on Soviet, French and NATO
aircraft, was a mere extension fo the United States policy of assisting
Iraq through all legal means in order to avoid an Iranian victory.

^^ ya
 
first of all i cant write a fucking book to put everything the way you want me to present it, so i dumb it down to a simple over encompassing generalization with the most basic of explaination. yes there are all kinds of small and large things going on behind the scenes, from the shiites and the groups who were vieing for control and any given point.


however, while you want to get caught up in all the whys, ifs, and whatevers of every situation, im trying to focus on the overall.


at WHAT POINT DO YOU STOP BLAMING EVERYONE AND TAKE CONTROL OF YOUR OWN DESTINIES?

quit fucking getting caught up in the small details, whether what i said was dead nuts or wayyyy out in left field is fucking irrelevant.

all you ever fucking do is blame everyone.

in one way you think America is capable of keeping the whole mideast down, and in another we are completely inept( i mean seriously, we fucked up in afghanistan, iraq, egypt, syria,etc)

but regardless of what we do its OUR fault. if we do something its bad, if we dont do something its bad, if we choose this saide were bad, if we choose the other side we're bad, if we choose neither side we're bad, if we choose both sides we're bad, holy fuck..

maybe at some point you need to actually look at it from our perspective?

or is that just wrong cause were all so stupid?

ok so you criticise the ummah for not taking control of our own destinies

ok

hard to do that when the hegemon is propping up dictators who repress legitimate democracy in favour of hegemon-controlled puppet governments and/or arming separatist theocratic fighters inimical to all mankind because they serve a temporary and contingent purpose

like

ok

you fucked up our societies and now you want us to just miraculously restore order and become civilised? It's like when israelis moan about the crime rate in the west bank when they keep blowing up fucking police stations.

read this for an example of what I'm talking about (it is from known antizionist chomsky tho so contamination warning)
 
Chia probably has his TV set on Fox News 24/7 and occasionally switches to cnn so he can say he has a balanced view on world events


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
ok so you criticise the ummah for not taking control of our own destinies

ok

hard to do that when the hegemon is propping up dictators who repress legitimate democracy in favour of hegemon-controlled puppet governments and/or arming separatist theocratic fighters inimical to all mankind because they serve a temporary and contingent purpose

like

ok

you fucked up our societies and now you want us to just miraculously restore order and become civilised? It's like when israelis moan about the crime rate in the west bank when they keep blowing up fucking police stations.

read this for an example of what I'm talking about (it is from known antizionist chomsky tho so contamination warning)

ok what would you like us to do?

when left to your own devices, in egypt, libya, iraq, afghanistan.

YOU CHOOSE THE EXTREMEISTS

last i checked we tried NOT to choose them...but sadly they are the only ones willing to fight.

are you seriously telling me and everyone here, that America has been intentionally leaving out the moderates, turning down the moderates, or even thwarting them intentionally?

you are seriously telling me that moderates who want a fair government are demanding arms to fight and we are saying"oh no, you are too moderate and want to much fairness for us, we'd rather arm the terrorists!

seriously? you just said that?
 
Itt chia doesn't realize America is actually evil and willingly destabilizes entire geographies for its own benefit


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
and please tell me what societies did we fuck up exactly?

the ones that were instituted under colonial rule by the brits?

or before that when the whole area was filled with nomads and warreds with each other over sectarian BULLSHIT for the last 1000 fuking years?
 
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