Cataclysm: 10/25 mans will share same lockout and loot

I expect this to either be rescinded, or to backfire heavily.

Either 10-man will remain a joke and 25-man raiding will nosedive on most servers, or 10-man will be overtuned and the crying will blot out the sun.

I have very little faith in their ability to actually balance them.
 
Wonder how they gonna work the drop quantities between 10 and 25 man, assuming 10 man drops 2 items per boss, then 25 will need to drop at least 6 items per boss in order to exceed what you get from 10man... and that seems like a shit ton of items. Unless they make 10 man dropping 1 and 25 dropping 3, 10 man would really suck then.
 
For the most part, I think this is a bad idea

But the way my guild's raids have been going lately, being able to drop 15 boat anchors might not be such a bad thing...
 
Well it seems like that's a primary reason along with the problem of having to run 2 versions of a raid instance every week with all of your alts.
 
How is sharing the lockout a good thing? I'm not really seeing how the number of available runs per week being halved is a benefit to players. As for catering to casuals, how? Take someone like myself. I have a grand total of two 80s. So I can run a total of four raids per week which will be cut down to two. That's better how exactly? I can understand the hardcore people seeing the benefit that they no longer "have" to run through the same content with each of their 10 80s, but I really don't see how this is catering to casuals at all.

Having the same loot is just retarded. Why bother trying to get 25 people together for a run when the same shit drops in 10man. You put up with the added frustration and possible drama of a 25man because of the better loot. Sure you'll get less drops in 10man, but also less competition, drama, annoyances, etc.

Maybe I'm just being oblivious and missing something, but it just doesn't feel like Blizzard really thought this one through all that much.
 
PessimiStick said:
Having the same loot is not.
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i still think there should be a different lockout.

What vemp said. It's shitty, I like you have only 2 80's, I only raid with one... So the amount of raids is even less now and I only play to raid/arena.
I enjoyed 10m b/c they help you learn fights and to gear up for the really difficult encounters/25m content.
 
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vempire said:
How is sharing the lockout a good thing? I'm not really seeing how the number of available runs per week being halved is a benefit to players. As for catering to casuals, how? Take someone like myself. I have a grand total of two 80s. So I can run a total of four raids per week which will be cut down to two. That's better how exactly? I can understand the hardcore people seeing the benefit that they no longer "have" to run through the same content with each of their 10 80s, but I really don't see how this is catering to casuals at all.

Having the same loot is just retarded. Why bother trying to get 25 people together for a run when the same shit drops in 10man. You put up with the added frustration and possible drama of a 25man because of the better loot. Sure you'll get less drops in 10man, but also less competition, drama, annoyances, etc.

Maybe I'm just being oblivious and missing something, but it just doesn't feel like Blizzard really thought this one through all that much.
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Having to run both instances per week to get the max number of badges and loot sucks.

Having to run TotC 4 times a week was pretty terrible too.
 
vempire said:
How is sharing the lockout a good thing? I'm not really seeing how the number of available runs per week being halved is a benefit to players. As for catering to casuals, how? Take someone like myself. I have a grand total of two 80s. So I can run a total of four raids per week which will be cut down to two. That's better how exactly? I can understand the hardcore people seeing the benefit that they no longer "have" to run through the same content with each of their 10 80s, but I really don't see how this is catering to casuals at all.

Having the same loot is just retarded. Why bother trying to get 25 people together for a run when the same shit drops in 10man. You put up with the added frustration and possible drama of a 25man because of the better loot. Sure you'll get less drops in 10man, but also less competition, drama, annoyances, etc.

Maybe I'm just being oblivious and missing something, but it just doesn't feel like Blizzard really thought this one through all that much.
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Running 25 mans would get you everything faster. You'd get to your 95 badges faster, and presumably they'd make enough pieces drop per boss that it would be more beneficial to run 25 mans.
 
Fool said:
Running 25 mans would get you everything faster. You'd get to your 95 badges faster, and presumably they'd make enough pieces drop per boss that it would be more beneficial to run 25 mans.
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Additionally if more pieces of loot drop the chances of getting the rare drops (read: trinkets and weapons) is higher.
 
Well they're probably basing that on the logic that decent 25 man raiders don't have much trouble with it to begin with and are reserving hardmodes for real raid guilds.
 
As for 10s being easier than 25s, I'm not entirely convinced of that on simple grounds of carrying. You could carry one person in 10s (maybe) assuming no one is overgeared and their gear matches the difficulty of the raid. Even if you do, it's easy to tell who it is who is skating by. 25s though, you will always have carrying people. Could be 2 - 3 upwards of 5 - 6 people who ultimately don't know exactly what they are doing, and provided everyone else has the gear and competence can get it done with these players not really having to do much of anything. And even if there is a wipe, those people blend into the crowd usually and escape accountability for not doing it. At least with this theoretical new model there could be a way 25s will be tuned so you won't get carrying people anymore.

Then again you never know, people seem to carry people regardless and even intentionally. Nearly every pug I'm in (lol pugs...) has at least one intentional skater. It's always someone horribly undergeared who doesn't know the fights, and inevitably this person is the RLs brother, cousin, GF, fuck-buddy, whatever. Hell I tried OS-3D-10 on my hunter and we had one warrior who was sub-4000 who was getting beaten in DPS by both tanks. Everyone questioned it up and down, and nothing was done.

And if you think about it, carrying people pretty much sinks the casual lime of mediocrity even lower. They made it easy enough as is, so much so some people feel they don't need to learn anything, and you STILL have people who will be carried through shit intentionally.

The only way I could see this change working is if they offer double the raid tokens in 25s than they do in 10s, that would be the only real incentive to do 25s I'd think.
 
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@Feannag: You're fucking dumb, 10s are easier, everyone knows this.

As for why the shared lockout is good, having 10 mans be essentially mandatory because you need the badges/loot/random BIS item is just gay as fuck. I don't want to run them most of the time, but I don't really have a choice. BIS items should never have been from 10 mans to begin with, but since they can't seem to stop fucking that up, a shared lockout solves it just as well. If you want to raid more, play an alt.

Regardless, this may be the proverbial straw for me, we'll see.
 
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