when russia invades ukraine
- Thread starter Skipperlipicus
- Start date
I'd argue that given the swift victory outside parties had very little time to supply them with anything. US gained air superiority day 1. Hard to move supplies after that.
Russia still has trouble controlling the skies above Ukraine.
I feel like it's apples and oranges. The US and Russia are not on par militarily, the Iraqis and Ukrainians did not share the same level of enthusiasm, and most wealthier nations did not have the same level of economic interest in Iraq to try to assist it. It's a drastically different scenario.
i think this is a huuge understatement.
Did any country actually assist iraq in any fashion?
Politically during the first gulf war it would not have been looked upon favorably by anyone. In the second gulf war, I think Iran's fedayeen were involved, but were mostly a speed bump along the way to Bagdad.
Between the wars I believe North Korea was involved with attempts to smuggle past trade bans arms to Iraq.
But Iraq was a pariah in the middle east.
True....but I'd argue part of what we see is the disparity you mentioned. US Airforce is leaps and bounds better than Russia's. Lot of that has to do with its organization and data gathering/coordination. I'm of the opinion AWACs and its command and control capabilities are a huge part of that advantage. No ground troops stepped foot into the theater of battle until Iraq's skies were mostly if not totally under our control.
EDIT: For any knit pickers I am talking large forces.....there was I believe some special operators in country for spotting/intel.
Iraq at the time of that war was considered one of the top militaries in the world. I am talking Desert Storm, not the second war when Iraq's military was a joke at that point.
US air power destroyed their defenses and Airforce in 7 days. At that point our ground troops enjoyed total ground domination due to being able to call in air support when needed. Was academic at that point.
I digress....yes totally different, but given those differences is a huge part of the reason why Russia has struggled so much. Different foes, morale, support and Russia's own effectiveness or lack thereof all contribute. I guess digress was a poor choice of words lol.
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If I recall, they were touted as having the 4th best military in the world, or some shit like that. The constant blathering in the media how this fight could be a bloodbath for both sides just showed how ignorant of military power applications they could be. Just because a country has divisions after divisions of T-72 tanks (for example) doesn't mean shit if they don't have all of the other factors to support it. Little details like air superiority, command and control, communications, training, technology, layered defenses and proper leadership were non-existent in Iraq. The Desert Shield portion of the war was a godsend for military planners as it allowed us to perform intelligence analysis and strike order preparation for six months leading up to the actual incursion into Iraq.
That sounds about right...was looking for the quotes mentioning their "ranking" back then.
Yes it shows how much work US military and allies have put into military theory and training, tech, etc changes to execute on it.
I was going to put this in current news...
but I'm thinkin' it belongs her'
Brittney Griner faces 10 years in prison in Russia
but I'm thinkin' it belongs her'
Brittney Griner faces 10 years in prison in Russia
The Iraqi Army may have looked good on paper... but was clearly degraded by the time of the 2003 invasion of Iraq. They had numbers ... on paper... but in actually they were a second rate (even third rate) force at best. They had just come out of a 10 year war with Iran which ended in a stalemate, then were hammered by Desert Storm in the 90's, further depleting an already poorly motivated and ill-equipped fighting force when in 2003 the US launches "Shock and Awe" on them.
The outcome was never in doubt.
They never had control of the air, they never bothered to even try, instead attempting to hide their outdated air force in other territories where it wouldn't get bombed. Iraqi armor was outclassed on every level to American armor.
Comparing the state of the Iraqi military in 2003 or even 1991 to the state of the Ukrainian Military in 2022 is laughable. It isn't comparable.
The Ukranians have been receiving extensive training from NATO and been arming themselves with first rate NATO equipment for the last 8 years preparing for this very confrontation with Russia.
No such support was given to Iraqi. Sure, "The USSR" may have sold them arms and equipment, back in the 70's and 80's when they weren't defunct... but they built their own versions of Russian equipment in their own factories.
No one came to their aid with political or material support at any point. No one leveraged "the economic weapon" against the US or provided intelligence and field support to Iraq.
The outcome was never in doubt.
They never had control of the air, they never bothered to even try, instead attempting to hide their outdated air force in other territories where it wouldn't get bombed. Iraqi armor was outclassed on every level to American armor.
Comparing the state of the Iraqi military in 2003 or even 1991 to the state of the Ukrainian Military in 2022 is laughable. It isn't comparable.
The Ukranians have been receiving extensive training from NATO and been arming themselves with first rate NATO equipment for the last 8 years preparing for this very confrontation with Russia.
No such support was given to Iraqi. Sure, "The USSR" may have sold them arms and equipment, back in the 70's and 80's when they weren't defunct... but they built their own versions of Russian equipment in their own factories.
No one came to their aid with political or material support at any point. No one leveraged "the economic weapon" against the US or provided intelligence and field support to Iraq.
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KittyCat
Veteran XX
Euromaidan Press on Twitter:
The kh22 missles which Ukraine doesn't have, which can only be launched from a tu22 strategic bomber which Ukraine doesn't operate hit Ukraine with multiple video(s) and it was zelensky doing a false flag attack.
You can't make up the crazy conspiracy shit havax, samuwell, and data dream up.
These types of cuckservatives look up any conspiracy to fit their idealogy.
The kh22 missles which Ukraine doesn't have, which can only be launched from a tu22 strategic bomber which Ukraine doesn't operate hit Ukraine with multiple video(s) and it was zelensky doing a false flag attack.
You can't make up the crazy conspiracy shit havax, samuwell, and data dream up.
These types of cuckservatives look up any conspiracy to fit their idealogy.
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Euromaidan Press on Twitter:
The kh22 missles which Ukraine doesn't have, which can only be launched from a tu22 strategic bomber which Ukraine doesn't operate hit Ukraine with multiple video(s) and it was zelensky doing a false flag attack.
You can't make up the crazy conspiracy shit havax, samuwell, and data dream up.
These types of cuckservatives look up any conspiracy to fit their idealogy.
dang, i have to admit, that's an airtight narrative, gg zelensky
and the camera, wow, dead center where that puppy landed. i have to admit, zelensky is good. send him more US taxpayer money, he's earned it, don't you think?
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MasterGnr
Veteran XX
We are starting to have more conversations about force regeneration for the Russians. Let say you believe the numbers:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWPQCvSWIAI3K3E?format=jpg&name=900x900
1000+ tanks, 3000+ APCs, 200+ MLRS -- these are significant numbers. I think Ukraine might be over reporting as BDA reports often count something twice. Lets reduce them all by 30%. Still significant numbers. If the US Army lost 500 M1s, 1500 M2s, and 100 MLRS - it would take many years to replace them in the force.
Force regen requires 2 things - you have to immediately replace your battle losses from other units. Russia does not have an endless supply of combat power. So they have been pulling equipment from other forces in Russia. Same for people. Then, you have to actually make more of those systems to replace your cannibalization. Not easy to do.
I think the continued influx of American and European systems is going to trigger Putin. For example, I read that we are selling NASAMS to Ukraine now. Great system. Once it starts picking off Russian cruise missiles...they won't be happy.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWPQCvSWIAI3K3E?format=jpg&name=900x900
1000+ tanks, 3000+ APCs, 200+ MLRS -- these are significant numbers. I think Ukraine might be over reporting as BDA reports often count something twice. Lets reduce them all by 30%. Still significant numbers. If the US Army lost 500 M1s, 1500 M2s, and 100 MLRS - it would take many years to replace them in the force.
Force regen requires 2 things - you have to immediately replace your battle losses from other units. Russia does not have an endless supply of combat power. So they have been pulling equipment from other forces in Russia. Same for people. Then, you have to actually make more of those systems to replace your cannibalization. Not easy to do.
I think the continued influx of American and European systems is going to trigger Putin. For example, I read that we are selling NASAMS to Ukraine now. Great system. Once it starts picking off Russian cruise missiles...they won't be happy.
