Thrax: Where's the masses?

CelticLegend said:
Yeah 4M did suck much ass, as a team... I think that's what Jack and Gand are arguing about. I'm of the opinion that there was enough talent on the team to have done better, its just that there was no great team leader(s)... and no cohesion between the members. So, the degree of suckage. (Oh, and I can say that none of 4M ever, ever used cheats.. something some "top teams" cannot declare).

That said, I never gave a try at leading the team, so I dont have a lot of room to critique those that did.

Argument isn't whether 4M sucked or not. I never claimed it was good. I never said anything of the sort. I *said* that PJ does nothing but bitch and moan, and it was even worse for those of us that had to endure it match and scrim after match and scrim. His bullshit has been going on since day one. He does nothing but bitch, about anything he's not directly involved in. If he doesn't even play tribes, just what the fuck does he think he's doing coming around here to repeat his weak assed, tired and completely bullshit rants?

And that last sentence is even more interesting - PJ, for all his bitching and moaning, ranting and yelling, never ONCE did anything to lead. When asked point blank to provide strats and leadership that everyone else sorely lacked (according to him), he said "no". He's great for being a fucking whiny bitch, but doesn't ever bother to become part of the solution. Just like now.

Lastly, since we're discussing ancient history here... 4M was started by a bunch of pubbers who loved the game and wanted to play together. We were 50 strong at the peak. We were NOT a super uber dedicated squad of elite players, obviously... we were just gamers playing, looking to have fun, get better, play on a ladder, and hang out.

Sucking sucked, but most people were still having fun. Jack was not one of them, nor was Creeper. I remember thinking their yelling/anger in matches/practices was out of line. Looking back, I can't say I blame them... the frustration must have been intense.

It's even worse to have to TRY and play for fun when guys like PJ would get into complete and utter rages over losses. While the rest of us are trying to keep a positive outlook, he's sitting there like a fucking tool spewing his bullshit all the time. Just like now.

Anyhoo.... I maintain that holding a hatred for someone this long over shit that surrounds a video game is very sad. A resentment, sure ok fine. But obvious hatred? :huh: Put the shit down already.

Once you invest more than a nodding effort at competitive play, perhaps you'd be able to empathize.

This isn't a 4M vs PJ thing - it's a PJ vs the tribes community thing. I'm simply using examples of his complete asshattery in all aspects to refute his comments.

And I wasn't the best player on 4M - far from it. Never claimed to be, and never will. But I certainly will claim I probably cared more about the team than most. No one except for my bro Jetoh played longer and put more effort into it than I did.

Assholes like PJ are at the bottom of that list.
 
americanjoe said:
I understand your point and the points of everyone who said "t2 killed tribes because it wasn't a true t1 sequel", what I don't understand is how you can deny the fact that T2 's player count was higher than T1, and still call it the death of tribes ... that I don’t get. The only people i see that state this, are players that didn't enjoy t2 ... much like I state that T:V is a POS because I don’t like T:V .. but what separates the differences .. is all the support and facts that go along with saying T:V is a POS. Lower player count, boring un-inspired gameplay, lack of depth, no real competition aspect .. on and on ... I just don’t see how anyone can say that T2 killed Tribes, with the backing T2 had and the player count T2 had. The support only died because Sierra shut down Dynamix, the player count only died after 3 years of high numbers and a final patch with a final game type that split the masses and alienated ½ the community base. Again after 3 years .. not 3 months like T:V has. T:V Killed the Tribes Franchise ... plane and simple

Tribes1 players + New players = ???? You do the math. Include the fact that it is well known that some (not all) tribes players do not play other games at that time. What else is there to play? Tribes1?
 
Gandalf said:
And that last sentence is even more interesting - PJ, for all his bitching and moaning, ranting and yelling, never ONCE did anything to lead. When asked point blank to provide strats and leadership that everyone else sorely lacked (according to him), he said "no". He's great for being a fucking whiny bitch, but doesn't ever bother to become part of the solution. Just like now.

You are getting better this is basically a half-truth.

I did provide information on where the problems were and what should be done to correct them. But you in your infinate wisdom would always ignore them. Both Creeperman and myself would point out the problems with the team and give information on to fix the problem. But you and the other leaders were so full of yourselves that you couldn't and wouldn't listen to anything. It was your way or the highway. You could never do anything wrong and the team continued to lose and lose and lose. The team lost enough that people started leaving the team.

And yes I turned down the leadership and told you why but of course you won't mention that. I said I didn't have the TIME to put in the proper EFFORT to manage the team. It takes a vast amount of time to manage a team properly and I didn't have it to spare. Only a complete moron who was full of themselves would take on the job of the team leader if they couldn't put forth the effort required.

Gandalf said:
It's even worse to have to TRY and play for fun when guys like PJ would get into complete and utter rages over losses. While the rest of us are trying to keep a positive outlook, he's sitting there like a fucking tool spewing his bullshit all the time. Just like now.

Yep, damned hard to be positive when the leadership like yourself is DEMANDING that everyone be happy and positive after every loss and you never wanted to entertain anything that pointed out the problem or suggestions to fix the problems. I mean the after match meetings were like "We burned down our house and ran over the kids but lets be happy and not talk about it.". :p Creeperman and I just got fed up with the inane incompetence of the team leaders.
 
Yeah, those fools were incompetent like the rest of us right PJ? All these incompetent bastards swarming you all the time... what gives? It's gotta be tough being so intelligent all the time...

Could you post more pics of you please?
 
Rayn said:
I was there. This is what I observed:

- PJ talked a grand total of 2 times. Previous to that, I thought he was a homeless guy that had wandered in as he looked like he was receiving chemotherapy during the council, and I'm not sure that wasn't the case. For all his posturing in this post, he really had nothing to contribute to the council.

- None of us were there to 'offer our opinion', we were there for Sierra's PR so they could try and sell us their idea of tribes. It did not originate from anyone at the council.

- Why is PJ here again? Sounds like the same whines I was hearing 3 years ago.

Let me just add to this quote that PJ is still posting. Knock knock; it's credibility knocking down your door.
 
[57th]cneal said:
Tribes1 players + New players = ???? You do the math. Include the fact that it is well known that some (not all) tribes players do not play other games at that time. What else is there to play? Tribes1?

what? T1+new players=what? T2 players?

I would say thats mostly false .. T1 players (accourding to some people here) didn't like T2 (althought I was a hardcore T1 player and I lov T2 ... go figure).

at the time of T2 I also played Q3 team Arena and rocket Arena ... I cant stand CS ...

I really don't get what your trying to say ... please explain ...
 
*chuckle*

All the arguging over whether T2 or T1 were better...

I REALLY got into the franchise with T2, so I dont deny that my feelings on the matter aren't totally objective.

That being said, T:V in many ways tried to combine TOTALLY incompatible "fixes" to how Tribes was played.

I know its beating the proverbial dead horse, but I figure I'll post some of my thoughts and 'would-a should-a could-a's" and wonder if anyone would agree with me that it would have made a big difference with how T:V was received.

T2 had huge maps, but the skiing WAS slow by comparison so yes, it was a huge pain to trek a heavy across the map... tho by the time B++/Classic came out, then you had an overabundance of HO. PJ is right that Heavys really SHOULD be closer to walking tanks and therefore NOT as agile or fast as lights or mediums. Of course conversely they shouldnt be sitting ducks either. Thats the problem with T2 v. T:V... In Vengeance, heavies can go across the map AT ROUGHLY THE SAME SPEED AS A LIGHT :huh: The "noob skiing" made it WAY too easy to HO and on most maps you see more people HOing than actually CAPPING.

So in regard to maps, skiing I would have had LARGE maps with skiing that would require more skill than button holding. Also tweak the speeds so there's more downhill momentum for heavies, but less flat "ski distance" while the opposite would be true for lights and mediums


The vehicles of T:V are stoopid, spammy and fragile... :rolleyes: As it is, you STILL have TKers who'll gren you as you try to jump into a vehicle so they can grab it. (I laugh when I see it in pubs). And even if you made larger maps... the vehicles are SLOW. Why even HAVE vehicles if its SO easy to get across the map? The problem is that they were modeled after UT vehicles, and I always thought those sucked hardcore compared to T2.

I can only suggest that the good ol vehicle styles of T2 be brought back. Something LIKE the shrike, thundersword, havoc etc. The bomber in T:V is downright assinine. Hell a small, fast shrike with bombing capabilities would have been nice. And since there's no heat seekers, you'd have something USEFUL for the Rocket pod to do (I'll get to that in a moment). Oh and an ACTUAL MPB with a chaingun turret instead of the AA one, since 99% of the time people go after the "faux MPB" in Vengeance on foot.


Weapons need to be fixed, especially the damage they do vs infantry, vehichles and deployables. I personally think the grappler is a travesty, but even beyond that, the weapons TRULY feel like they have NO kick compared to T1 and T2. The mortar should be something you FEAR seeing... Its supposed to be a bundle of green death... now its just an overhyped grenade. The sniper rifle is another thing, I know how much controversy it causes but some people DO actually enjoy not fighting "hand to hand" as it were. I think the range limit on it currently makes the weapons useless at range. That it has ammo isnt a bother to me at all (its a nice balance feature IMHO). The grenades are decent, the buckler is VERY "meh", kinda cool but ultimately its just the disc from TRON. The burner's uses are decidedly limited to mostly ground work, and the rocket pod's uses are also limited to a degree.

For one, up the speed on the friggin disc! There is NO good reason you should be able to outrun your own shots (this is something that needs to be fixed in general!) I still say the 'fusor should have more of a concussive effect (knock cappers off course more than do direct damage if the shot doesnt get them directly). The mortar needs to do DAMAGE... BRING BACK THE "blown to bits" ANIMATION"! The grenade launcher and chaingun can stay like they are, I have no real issues with them... Remove the sniper rifle range limit (and FIX THE GODDAMN AIM w/ regard to the crosshairs!). Id say give the burner some sort of ammo of its own, but that's a debatable issue. The buckler... well... I guess it's fine. :shrug: The Rocket Pod needs work tho... I think the rockets should travel faster and do a bit more damage each, and should be a LOT more controllable (maybe extend the range just a tad?) Since they are spread out, they shouldnt be TOO spammy against defenses at range (tho that would require testing).

The interface for the Inv station just needs to be put back to how it was for T2... pure and simple. What the FUCK were they thinking? :huh: They need to get rid of that obnoxious BF1942 wannabe respawn screen. Its something the Tribes games REALLy dont need. I also say bring back vehicle stations, regardless of what's been said about TKers. Leaving all your vehicles out in the open makes NO sense in a combat zone (especially one as tightly packed as T:V is currently) I can understand having individual spots to pick up individual vehicles, and have a dispenser of some sort, but not just having them sitting there... no that's not a good thing :)

The deployables are also lame in T:V... I think that they could have just put a single mine dispenser there that'd be like a can dispenser, you pick up a mine (and make the mines not look like toy UFOs please?) and the next one pops up. hell Id prefer it if they brought back some form of the deployables from T1/T2. I prefer picking them up at the inv station, it wouldnt HURT to have a small set of icons stating how many of your turrets have been deployed, how many mines, etc.

Get rid of that minimap thingie and bring back the command screen! I think that the minimap is one of the things that's taken any element of surprise out of T:V. You have to disable their little radar antenna to take down the whole IFF system and that's another thing that seems... well... impractical (and bad tactics). The sensor net wasnt really used as much in T2 as it could have been, but sheesh being able to see where your enemies are at all times just makes the game that much easier. If i wanted easy, id play UT or BF1942 or something. Oh yeah, and a readable font for the IFF? Please?!? I liked knowing who I was killing (and who was owning me). I dont catch people's handles in the game anywhere NEAR as often as I did in T2, and that saps some of the element of fun out of the game for me.

Im sure Ive skipped a few things, but overall that would have made a big difference to ME as to how fun the game was. Im not impressed with ragdoll physics if the game around them sucks (dontcha just love that when you kill someone, their bodies can be booted across the screen like the were a balloon? :D)
 
Wow Wolfchylde, that was really long.

While I haven't read anything in this thread, it's nice to see how *ahem* constructive this thread is. I mean really, it's either arguing about this or politics.
 
[AKA]PanamaJack said:
You are getting better this is basically a half-truth.

I did provide information on where the problems were and what should be done to correct them. But you in your infinate wisdom would always ignore them. Both Creeperman and myself would point out the problems with the team and give information on to fix the problem. But you and the other leaders were so full of yourselves that you couldn't and wouldn't listen to anything. It was your way or the highway. You could never do anything wrong and the team continued to lose and lose and lose. The team lost enough that people started leaving the team.

And yes I turned down the leadership and told you why but of course you won't mention that. I said I didn't have the TIME to put in the proper EFFORT to manage the team. It takes a vast amount of time to manage a team properly and I didn't have it to spare. Only a complete moron who was full of themselves would take on the job of the team leader if they couldn't put forth the effort required.

That was your excuse. You're nothing more than a whiny fucking monday morning QB. Even worse, you whined and bitched about what went wrong (which was a big fat DUH to everyone) but you offered NOTHING to fix it. You offered no solutions. When we changed things (contrary to your asertions) and it didn't work, you attacked the players.

You were nothing but a fucking cancer. You were a cancer then, and you're nothing but a cancer now. You have nothing positive to say. You constantly belittle other people's hard work, yet conveniently don't have the time (nor the inclination) to offer help to fix anything. You simply bitch to make yourself feel superior over everyone else. Your fucking ego is so big it can't see what kind of bullshit you spew.

Yep, damned hard to be positive when the leadership like yourself is DEMANDING that everyone be happy and positive after every loss and you never wanted to entertain anything that pointed out the problem or suggestions to fix the problems. I mean the after match meetings were like "We burned down our house and ran over the kids but lets be happy and not talk about it.". :p Creeperman and I just got fed up with the inane incompetence of the team leaders.

And quit dragging creeperman (a guy I get along with just fine, btw) into this like some sort of moral support.

I didn't want to be in charge of anything. I didn't ask to be a captain of the team, it was thrust on me. I did the best I could, with the limited resources I had. I also had to put up with an inane amount of shit from you, which was like having to babysit a 4 year old. No one else wanted to run things, least of all you. As I said, you didn't bother to offer anything but whining and bitching, and nothing has ever changed. You are the same self centered, egotistical wart on the ass of society as you were 5 years ago. Funny, how the team wasn't any better or worse whether I was running things or not. The only constant was your fucking mouth.
 
Hugo said:
Wow Wolfchylde, that was really long.

While I haven't read anything in this thread, it's nice to see how *ahem* constructive this thread is. I mean really, it's either arguing about this or politics.

:lol: Yeah when I looked at it Im like "wow, did I just write all that?"

I dunno though, everything I list SEEMS to make sense to me :shrug: I think T:V could have been great, but got mired in mediocrity (and they broke some of the things that Tribes 1 and 2 did RIGHT that kept people interested)
 
Last edited:
OK, since my name has been repeatedly dredged up, here's the story. At risk of reopening old wounds and burning bridges on all sides, I will say that there's a lot of truth on both sides of the trenches here. 4M did have a lot of internal drama, especially during the T2 C4 competition stage. We often did lose, and badly. Practices were chaotic, and we did suffer a severe lack of leadership and focus, like when LogRoller suddenly quit and vanished.

At the same time, it is also true that PJ and I whined, bitched, and moaned constantly after every practice, scrim, and match. I'll acknowledge a certain lack of tact on at least my own part, even as I maintain that what was said was true. This lack of tact often led to whatever suggestions I made (and I did make some) being ignored, which, while an understandable reaction, led to continued losses. And in all honestly, I saw PJ's suggestions (which he did occasionally make, albeit with his usual blunt and brutal manner) treated the same way.

To make a long story short, things finally came to a head, and in the ensuing explosion both PJ and I left the C4 competition team. The resulting drama carried back into the non-competition 4M clan, and led to fights, deep wounds, and bad blood for many months afterward. Neither one of us was ever kicked out of 4M itself, although it was a close call on several occasions, thanks to remaining personal animosities.

I'm still not sure why 4M's past dirty laundry had to be publicly aired like this, and I do wish both of you would STFU already, since you've both proven over the last five years that you'll never get along and hate each other's guts. Just power-ignore each other and have done with it.

Cliff's Notes, for those not wishing to read the fucking post:
  • 4M sucked on the ladders.
  • Sucking sucks.
  • Gandalf is right.
  • Gandalf is also wrong.
  • PJ is right.
  • PJ is also wrong.
  • Gandalf and PJ will never get along.
  • Creeperman is a cranky bastard.
Thank you, drive through.
 
HEY GUYS, STOP BITCHING ABOUT USELESS SHIT AND GET BEHIND SOMETHING THAT ACTUALLY CAN WORK, LEGENDS OR GOING BACK TO YOUR FAVORITE GAME, T1/T2. T2 RECENTLY HAD A SURGE OF PLAYERS AND IS NOW LOOKING AT A POSITIVE REENACTMENT OF WHAT I THOUGHT WAS GOOD TRIBES COMPETITION. THIS USELESS DRIVEL ISN'T GETTING ANYONE ANYWHERE

OF COURSE PJ SUCKS

OF COURSE 4M SUCKS

YOU ALL SUCK, NOW GO PLAY OR HELP A GAME.

LEGENDS NEEDS PEOPLE, GO HELP THEM OR JUST PLAY THE FUCKING GAME


THANKS GUYS

my capslock was broken, sorry
 
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