remember T:V devs, this mentality = bad

[Kefka]

Door defense was a joke. A guy skis in, fires a mortar, blows that measely turrets up, squeezes right by you to drop into the base, then fires a mortar right next to your gen. You're banged up and your gens are fucked. Before you can set the turrets back up, another guy has already skiid into your base and is tossing a mortar or two around. He dies, and the viscious cycle repeats. A half decent HO could always beat a good HD in Tribes 1.

And sure, you didn't die to the HO rusher and he always died, but he pretty much always took your gens with him and there was another HO rusher right behind him. The limitless speed made T1 ridiculous. A capped speed helped, but too much capping made T2 too easy to defend. I think capping the speed is needed to prevent this insanely easy HO rushing, but not make it to the point that HO just becomes shocklance bait.

Maybe I played the wrong T1. The one I played was where turrets did measely damage, weren't very versatile, and could be disabled with one disk and base turrets could be taken out with a chain gun and some grenades.

 

[Njal Storm]

Maybe I played the wrong T1. The one I played was where turrets did measely damage, weren't very versatile, and could be disabled with one disk and base turrets could be taken out with a chain gun and some grenades.

nope thats the same T1

 

[Shinigami]

Door defense was a joke. A guy skis in, fires a mortar, blows that measely turrets up, squeezes right by you to drop into the base, then fires a mortar right next to your gen. You're banged up and your gens are fucked. Before you can set the turrets back up, another guy has already skiid into your base and is tossing a mortar or two around. He dies, and the viscious cycle repeats. A half decent HO could always beat a good HD in Tribes 1.

And sure, you didn't die to the HO rusher and he always died, but he pretty much always took your gens with him and there was another HO rusher right behind him. The limitless speed made T1 ridiculous. A capped speed helped, but too much capping made T2 too easy to defend. I think capping the speed is needed to prevent this insanely easy HO rushing, but not make it to the point that HO just becomes shocklance bait.

Maybe I played the wrong T1. The one I played was where turrets did measely damage, weren't very versatile, and could be disabled with one disk and base turrets could be taken out with a chain gun and some grenades.

Again, how much did you play? And perhaps if you prefer turrets to d for you, you should've played renegades, or one of the 876758675 other t1 mods that added godly turrets.

 

[Njal Storm]

Again, how much did you play? And perhaps if you prefer turrets to d for you, you should've played renegades, or one of the 876758675 other t1 mods that added godly turrets.

1st we are talking about base(straight out of the box).

2. godly turrets??? come on you have to admit that T1 turrets sucked. here is a average pre-cap briefing " ok, get down and cause a ruckious, spit on that turret (to disable) once u do, ill snatch the flag."
** Note the above proably never happened since there was even less teamwork in T1.

 

[commonsense]

Too true. There was no point for turrets to exist in tribes, once skiing was discovered.

 

[Kefka]

I didn't want the godly turrets of mods. Most mods were just overboard when it came to big fancy explosions and typically lacked balance. Some guy in this thread suggested I used those shitty T1 turrets in a frail attempt of stopping a skiing heavy who's doing a suicide run to disable my base.

This is from Raindance, but it applies to most maps.

1) Mine the entrances and the floor and end up TKing half of your dumbass team who don't understand that "big triangle on ground = bad." When the HO finally came, there were no mines left and your team was left in spawngear for being dickheads.

2) Stand at the doorway and get mortared as the HO came in. Not only would you fail to block him half of the time, but you died to the HO that came right behind him. Not like you could set up an inventory station to heal yourself nearby since the inventory/ammo stations blew up just as easily as the turrets.

3) Sit in your base as a heavy with a shield pack to duke it out with the HO. While you may be able to kill him, he's going to take out your pussy base with a mortar or two because -nothing- can take the pain of a mortar.

4) This was my favourite... control the rocket turret. Just click on the incoming HO and he stops dead in his tracks. Congratulations! You finally killed an incoming HO, but now this light is chaining your rocket turret now that it's completely out of shields from firing a rocket and unable to defend itself. The turret is gone before you can blow the little fucker away. Also, your team mates yell at you for using the rocket turret - which would otherwise not shoot a damned thing except high-flying lights and the vehicles no one used.

5) If this was Rollercoaster, you couldn't do jack shit to defend. Any Joe Schmoe would go out into the dunes and range a few discs at your pussy solar panel. Either that, or some light was dropping grenades and disks as he glided over your base and took out the entire thing in a few seconds. No amount of turrets, snipers, HD, and LD could stop these lone sons of bitches who just BLINKED and saw the entire base gone.

6) If this was Stonehenge, there was no use in even getting gear! Just run in as your spawn gear and commit suicide in front of the generator and your disks will finish it off while you keep shooting them while dead. If you failed to protect against these fuckers, you had to fly out to the middle of no where to get a repair pack with a bunch of irate schmoes spamming "VRG!" The only way to defend this map was to have two heavies dedicated to staring down the two entrances with a plasma cannon ready to kill anyone who came in - a BORING ass job that no one wanted to do.

7) If this was Dangerous Crossing, you could just ski in as a heavy and poke a mortar into the main base and the back inventory station. If you were half-brained, you could fit two mortars into the main base to take out the two sentry turrets with every inventory. Sure, you could set up remote inventory stations - which ran out of supplies after about four uses. Again, no shocklance in T1 to stop these high-speed flying fortresses known as "heavy offense."


So yes, I believe the people who bitched the most were the ones who did nothing but ski-in and attack, giggling as their light took the -entire fucking base- down and got to blast that poor, unsuspecting repairman away while he slowly repaired the gens and inventory stations. I was mostly a defender in T1 since no one wanted the boring, under-appreciated, scoreless task of running around with a repair gun or pointing down a hole with a plasma cannon to assure that your team mates get their mortars, grenade launchers, and energy packs for a day of fun in the field.

I'm terribly sorry if Tribes 2 actually forces you to team up with others to do bombing runs when your enemy has a good defense set up. God forgive us if we actually plan attacks and use teamworks in a team- and strategy-based game.

 

[jsut]

Too true. There was no point for turrets to exist in tribes, once skiing was discovered.

what about the top of the b*side bases? Not that that was competition, or even pubbed on non-newb servers, but still. I know i had a lot of fun playing newb top entrance D with my 6 turrets + the sentry

 

[Kefka]

Blast/Broadside was actually decently fun, along with Scarabrae. The turrets could actually do something since you could conceal them around the corner in a dark area where a mine didn't stick out like a sore thumb. I loved having the shield-pack duels against the guy who was defending that area, being wary of the suprise mine or turret that could be just around the corner and ducking into the hallway to regen your shield energy.

Good times, good times.

 

[Colosus]

Kefka...

While I realize your complaints are valid and you make some very good points about the imbalance seen in tribes, I must point out one thing.

You are taking the viewpoint of a person who did not play on an organized team. Everything you pointed out evolved over years of play. There are counters to everything you said, but I'll just pick out a few...

2) With the proper LD and a good team defense, a heavy would never reach the inside of your base. 1 LD on top of the base can protect for incoming heavies (with an accurate disc to the face to stop it) and watch over flag for side to side caps.

You have the ability to place 5 people on defense in a T1 match. I'll use raindance as an example since you seem to dislike it so much. 1 HoF, 1 Goalie, 3 LD (2 chasers, 1 at base). With this setup, very few teams had issues with heavy offense unless they were outmatched. Which happens.

6) Stonehenge devolved into cluster after years and years of play. While you could place some people inside to defend your base, it was found that that person would be better suited to protecting your flag. Cap routes got faster, skiing got better, people didn't require energy packs to do what needed to be done.

So you focus on destroying the enemy base and holding each other's rooves. While some people may dislike this style of play, it became fun after a while. I disagree with removing the OPTION to defend your base, but very few competitive teams would do it anyway after the first 5 minutes of a map.

What I think I'm trying to say here is that it took 3+ years for Tribes to evolve into how it is played now and as someone who played from the beginning, these changes came gradually so they were easily adjusted to.

It will be the same way in T:V. The developers can not plan for everything and if they do, the interest in the game will die soon after release. You need these types of changes to expand the life of your game. This will be difficult for newbies, but I have a few ideas on how to handle that as well (which I won't get into here).

Now I'm rambling and have to go, so hopefully you got something out of this, if not, I apologize.

 

[[57th]cneal]

Door defense was a joke. A guy skis in, fires a mortar, blows that measely turrets up, squeezes right by you to drop into the base, then fires a mortar right next to your gen. You're banged up and your gens are fucked. Before you can set the turrets back up, another guy has already skiid into your base and is tossing a mortar or two around. He dies, and the viscious cycle repeats. A half decent HO could always beat a good HD in Tribes 1.

I'll agree with you, this may have happened allot in pubs and it could have been a start that only compassion players used. However it still doesn’t mean that we should be lazy and get out our auto-lock rocket guns cause we don't want to ski anywhere or do anything since defense is the only easy roll. That is, offence requires strategy.

In any case, there should be strict rules implemented into the game from start that would adjust these measures by a logical design. That design is what that we've implemented and had to go along by word and trust. The rule is if there isn't enough players to fill all the positions including door guard then make it so that gens can't be destroyed. That's how most servers do it and it should be implemented into every one of them by now either by an external script or something temporary built in from start.

. . . But . . . never the less, we still need to be able to atleast have semi intermediate players able playing the rolls of destroying an opponents base or else it becomes a defend the base while a few advanced players try to come in for the kill. In other words, not real fun but that’s just my opinion on these things.

 

[Kefka]

Organized games are a blast, yes, but you can't always have one. That's why I was promoting the idea of better communication - the 3-minute plantime in a pre-game lobby and better coms. Otherwise, a lot of people play for points. The best way to "0wn" in T1 with points was to camp enemy inv rooms and kill anyone who respawned for 10 kills per successful run.

 

[Thrax Panda]

Note the above proably never happened since there was even less teamwork in T1.

This is just so blatantly not true that I shouldn't even bother to respond, but what the hell. Tribes 1 had tons of teamplay. Without it you couldn't win. To say otherwise simply displays ignorance. Tribes 2 required teamwork. without it you couldn't participate. With Vengeance we will not be forcing you into a specific type of play. We're (figuratively) building a field, giving you the ball, and letting play emerge from that. We will place as few restrictions on play style and personal skill as possible.

So, as usual when the whole T1 required no teamwork/ T2 required no skill argument starts, I get the last word and then the thread closes.

 

[Colosus]

This is just so blatantly not true that I shouldn't even bother to respond, but what the hell. Tribes 1 had tons of teamplay. Without it you couldn't win. To say otherwise simply displays ignorance. Tribes 2 required teamwork. without it you couldn't participate. With Vengeance we will not be forcing you into a specific type of play. We're (figuratively) building a field, giving you the ball, and letting play emerge from that. We will place as few restrictions on play style and personal skill as possible.

So, as usual when the whole T1 required no teamwork/ T2 required no skill argument starts, I get the last word and then the thread closes.

Nope, I get last word. ;-) Bravo. In Thrax We Trust.