Properties of the Grappling Hook

[Apotheosis]

Well one thing I would like to know is how extensively the line of the GH can manipulate, or be manipulated by the enviroment, weapon fire, or other players.

I too share Metropolis' concern about the GH taking up a slot in the player loadout. This .gif animation -- http://www.shaggusmachaggis.com/images/tribes/hook/hook_animated.gif -- makes it seem like the GH provides the ability for the player to tractor himself up on the hook. The only other explanation for the rebound that the player experiences is that line has a pronounced elastic property, although the .gif animation suggests against this.

I personally think that a tractoring GH will be a bit too powerful/useful to not take with you on most loadouts, and I share Metropolis' and Ixiterra's notions that the GH should be like the TL in terms of weapon slots.

 

[Lotus*]

I personally think that a tractoring GH will be a bit too powerful/useful to not take with you on most loadouts, and I share Metropolis' and Ixiterra's notions that the GH should be like the TL in terms of weapon slots.

And mine

 

[Cea]

Shoot someone at close range kills them. Hook goes thru the chest, blood spatters everywhere with a squish sound. Doesn't do anything if player is far away.

Well if its instant kill or high damage *cough* SL *cough*

Otherwise wouldn't it be somewhat annoying, nothing more.

Shouldn't be latching on to players in the first place though imo.

And they haven't confirmed a shield pack yet, though I believe some form of a shield pack is essential to the game.

Sorta off topic but, I doubt they will have a shield, we have energy for movement and repair pack for health (similar to shield), I'd guess one of the other packs has something to do with sensors. Wouldn't want to double up on the health thing, even if they are in different forms.

heavies can use the GH to get around to high places and hiding on a ceiling inside a building or something. heavies can use the grapple to gain speed if there is a downhill and a bridge crossing over water or something. a heavy takes alot of time walking in water than on land.

Of course, but HO don't need to be going fast on arrival at the enemy base, they just want to get over as quickly, taking a grappling hook cause it will take 4 seconds off the route is hardly worth while. IMO its maintaining speed or a slight speed boost is what the GH will be good for, hence mainly for cappers and chasers.

Will the player always pivot around the hook? What if the cable comes into contact with another object ... like hooking one tree and having the cable pivot around another? What if the cable comes into contact with a player

I think the havok engine could do nice stuff if the wire can wrap around other objects. For other players however I think either nothing happens, which would look stupid, or they break the cable, that however wouldn't be much fun for the person who was using the GH. I dunno but I don't like the idea of being stopped or sent off route by a tiny wire.

Could the hook stay deployed for ever? Could you hang from a roof for a whole map if you chose to? Can you stay hooked and change to use another weapon? Will you be able to hook and discjump?

If the GH retracts, no, once you get next to it, it would release. If it can be tethered I don't think it will matter as long as you can't use another weapon, which wouldn't make sense any way. Firstly you have the whole ninja thing. Secondly hanging off the roof isn't going to help you much in most cases so why would you make an artificial limit. This doesn't take much into consideration though because the GH could work so many ways.

Is there a maximum force where the cable will release itself? For example at the peak of a 'swing' while hooked, if a player DJ'd would the hook release or is it permanently attached?

Permanently attached, don't want an artificial speed cap.

Can the cable or hook be shot by another player? For example, a capper is being chased by LD, he sees an upcoming tree and is going to redirect to throw the LD off. He 'hooks' the tree and is about to swing ... can the chase LD shoot the hook off the tree ... can he MA the hook before it connects? Would a mortar release a hook if it was within blast radius?

Yes to all, you can stuff up someone's skiing be shooting or BB them, why not this?

 

[Wulfen]

Also, about the ammo. I would have to say NO to that one.

I believe with a heavy reload time between firing the hook, it will be plenty of penalty as you probably will not be able to shoot other weapons while hooking.

In t1 if you could add infinite beacons for beacon stopping, why wouldn't you? So long as they would disappear 3 seconds after the beacon stop and not cake the whole level in beacons.

It sounds to me like it will be a skillful tool, I see no reason to say, "Oh, your times up with it, your only allowed 3 cool ass swoopy moves per run."

I mean, if somebody is doing some cool stuff with it, let them go to work. Like I said before, you probably won't be able to shoot while using it, and you sure as hell can still get killed while hooking.

There aren't any limitations on how many times you can jump or ski, why would you limit the hook as it is a tool of pure movement in a game based around movement? As long as it isn't a weapon that can be spammed at enemies.

My problem with that is that they listed it as a weapon. Weapons have ammo. It's like having infinite discs, to pull off 'cool swoopy MA's'..

 

[Darkfire]

I really dont want this to be changed to what the TL was..this should take up a weapon slot to stop ppl from over using it.

 

[Wulfen]

As natural says, most of the time a heavy won't use it, well at least on O. With a 3 or 4 weapon limit on heavies some already say they don't have enough weapons. The GP, in terms of skiing, is really more for manipulating so a relatively straight forward HO route it would hardly be used imo, as such it wouldn't be worth a HO taking.

If you can tether it however I can imagine some stuff you might do as HoF...

How can we assume a heavy wouldn't get any use out of it?

 

[Apotheosis]

My problem with that is that they listed it as a weapon. Weapons have ammo. It's like having infinite discs, to pull off 'cool swoopy MA's'..

Actually, can you link me to where the GH is listed as a "weapon?"

I am wondering if the GH is indeed "UNNAMED WEAPON 1" or "UNNAMED WEAPON 2," or if there are two more "real" weapons to be announced in addition to the GH.

 

[Wulfen]

This .gif animation -- http://www.shaggusmachaggis.com/images/tribes/hook/hook_animated.gif -- makes it seem like the GH provides the ability for the player to tractor himself up on the hook. The only other explanation for the rebound that the player experiences is that line has a pronounced elastic property, although the .gif animation suggests against this.

I'm not sure about that. If you look at the gif, he doesn't use any energy until he's almost at the top of the building, so it looks like it has a definite elastic property.

 

[Lotus*]

I think he meant more that its reeling in rather than stretching, not that it does nothing at all.

 

[Wulfen]

Actually, can you link me to where the GH is listed as a "weapon?"

I am wondering if the GH is indeed "UNNAMED WEAPON 1" or "UNNAMED WEAPON 2," or if there are two more "real" weapons to be announced in addition to the GH.

I'm only going off of the pics, which show it with the other weapons, and the fact that Menzo labelled it as such.

Maybe it's not, that's the only back-up I have.

 

[Apotheosis]

I'm not sure about that. If you look at the gif, he doesn't use any energy until he's almost at the top of the building, so it looks like it has a definite elastic property.

I think he meant more that its reeling in rather than stretching, not that it does nothing at all.

Yeah, that's what I meant
However, it is possible that the GH tractors *and* has elastic properties.

 

[Lotus*]

Thats certainly what it looked like to me

The movement didn't look like he just stopped and started reeling in, it was a slow shift from down to upwards, instead of a down stop up thing.

 

[Sojourn]

This is a serious issue. If the GH becomes a staple for cappers, it by definition becomes a staple for chasing LD. Therefore, chasing LD are limited to at most one extra weapon aside from disc or cg, depending on which one they judge more useful.

Unless the grappling hook, therefore, can cause damage to players, it becomes a TL-like addition with limited use. It should be a free thing with every loadout.

I don't necessarily agree with this.. and I'll tell you why.

Let's assume, for a minute, that the grappler is useful for cappers, and can provide a slight edge. We'll forego the idea that it is overpowering and completely necessary to move well, and assume that it's balanced, and just provides a little more versatility and really takes advantage of the freedom of movement. Sharper cuts, pivots, that kind of thing..

Okay, now with that assumption.. defense would not be required to use it. Defense didn't need to follow a capper in Tribes. They just needed to cut them off. That was the reason maps like IceRidge got so crazy with the backcap, because the shortest path was the one they just took, and that left defense in trouble. On a map like Raindance, however, it was different.. cappers had to make a wide loop, because the flag was inaccessible right down the middle (for the most part).

Now the grappler might help a capper do that, and it might help him take turns sharper, but the chasers know where the capper is going to end up. He's going to his flag stand. How will the grappler help the chasers follow a capper going right down the middle? It won't. Will the grappler help chasers follow a capper who pivots suddenly the other direction? Probably (if done right).. but do they need to do the same thing? Not at all. If a chaser finds himself reacting to a capper, and just following him, he's probably not going to catch the capper. A good chaser anticipates where the capper will go, and he meets him there.

 

[Sojourn]

It looks like it's both elastic and reeling. Which makes sense, it's kind of a sling-shot effect.

 

[JodoFett]

I just got in idea, maybe the grapple does reel in, but it is slower for the heavier armor types. More weight would mean it is harder, so it would also be a sort of limit on the ability of a heavy to go eighty million miles an hour like a light if they weren't able to gain as much speed in grappling. Although I don't think the grapple should reel in at all, should be a static tether that allows you to gain speed if you have it pivot on a tree or something but otherwise remain the same length it is when you hit whatever you are shooting.

 

[Void|deadjawa]

I think it will be cooler if it is non-reeling. It'd be so much more unique and tribes-ish.

Plus then you could use it as a tripwire. It would be hilarious to see ragdoll physics with tripping.

 

[JodoFett]

I don't know about using it as a trip wire but if you were to say wrap it around a column it would give you more and more speed, but if you let go of it too late you smash into the wall hella fast and splat.

 

[Void|deadjawa]

Judging from the second animation:

http://www.shaggusmachaggis.com/images/tribes/hook/hook_ani2.gif

I'd say it provides only a very slight impulse (if any at all) to the player. Tow-rope it is, horay

 

[JodoFett]

It seems like the only real help it gives someone is a little bit of elasticity, which is the way I think it should be, something that retracted(or atleast retracted quickly) would give too much of an increase in speed.

 

[Lotus*]

Now the grappler might help a capper do that, and it might help him take turns sharper, but the chasers know where the capper is going to end up. He's going to his flag stand. How will the grappler help the chasers follow a capper going right down the middle? It won't. Will the grappler help chasers follow a capper who pivots suddenly the other direction? Probably (if done right).. but do they need to do the same thing? Not at all. If a chaser finds himself reacting to a capper, and just following him, he's probably not going to catch the capper. A good chaser anticipates where the capper will go, and he meets him there.

I agree entirely, but my point was based on this. In T2 (never played T1, soz ;x), even with the flag iff, chasing did tend to be cutting the capper off. However, it was more cutting them off when at a point in their route, rather than at the ending point. My problem is that ld dont have enough time (assuming no luck) to take a capper from full to zero health right at the flagstand.

With the manoeuverability (sp?) of the GH, the only place LD will be certain of finding the capper will be at the flagstand. The rest is just guessing.

Dont get me wrong, I love the idea of GH, I just dont think it should take a weapon slot.