Properties of the Grappling Hook

[Natural]

There are a few threads discussing the possibility of a grappling hook (GH), but now that we know there is one, let's analyze what the hook should and should not do. Let's try to get some constructive criticism and analysis going...

Should the GH be useable by all armors? Should it be a light-specific weapon?

Should the GH be able to retract and pull players in a direction? i.e. to help them climb up a wall or to pull them towards a building without using a jetpack.

Should the GH be able to hook to other players? If so, how should force be distributed?

Should the GH be able to hook onto the flag?

What might the GH be used for in the "Ball" gametype?

Should the GH be affected by gravity (have an arc) when fired? This could add a dimension of skill, or add a load of frustration.

Should GH have ammo? It could make sense, because it would then eliminate the need for any kind of retraction after the GH is fired. Players could just shoot, swing around and object, then let go of the cord.

Should the GH have a noticeble reload timer? This could prevent rampant swinging of players on maps like the ruined city, but it might also limit the skill cap with the weapon.

Should the jetpack be functional (and affect the player's arc) when swinging with the GH? I believe it should, but would be interested in arguments saying it shouldn't.

Anything else you can think of?

Edit: Current animation of the GH (link might die though) http://www.shaggusmachaggis.com/images/tribes/hook/hook_animated.gif
Thanks Trashman!

It clearly shows a reload timer and shows the hook retracting (and pulling a player up the wall).

 

[Fool]

Should the GH be useable by all armors? Should it be a light-specific weapon?

- Well we already know it isn't light specific, that would be the laser rifle. This is either already usable by all armors, or is the medium specific weapon. I personally think it would have uses in all 3 armor types, so I hope it's that way.


Should the GH be able to retract and pull players in a direction? i.e. to help them climb up a wall or to pull them towards a building without using a jetpack.

- Again I hope so. Perhaps a replacement for discjumps for cappers, a slingshot effect if you will, as lights are now lighter than they were in T1 and T2.


Should the GH be able to hook to other players? If so, how should force be distributed?

- Absolutely not. This would be every bit as unbalanced as the T2 ELF, albeit mixed with the shocklance in terms of aim. But the T2 dev team didn't expect people to get great with MA shocklances either. You'd find 2-3 GH'ers on defense every map in competition if you made this possible.


Should the GH be able to hook onto the flag?

- Again I have to say no. This would be an overpowered Offense ability.


What might the GH be used for in the "Ball" gametype?

- Maybe nothing at all.


Should the GH be affected by gravity (have an arc) when fired? This could add a dimension of skill, or add a load of frustration.

- From what I've seen, the GH is currently an instant-shot weapon like the laser rifle. I hope it becomes a projectile to add a skill factor other than just pointing it.


- Should GH have ammo? It could make sense, because it would then eliminate the need for any kind of retraction after the GH is fired. Players could just shoot, swing around and object, then let go of the cord.

Ammo no, but a reload (or rewind if you will) timer should be in effect.


Should the GH have a noticeble reload timer? This could prevent rampant swinging of players on maps like the ruined city, but it might also limit the skill cap with the weapon.

- See above


Should the jetpack be functional (and affect the player's arc) when swinging with the GH? I believe it should, but would be interested in arguments saying it shouldn't.

- I believe it should, as it would make an effective replacement for the Disc Jump if implemented correctly.

 

[Lotus*]

I think it should have ammo, but you have to options: retract and cut. If you dont want to waste ammo and you have time you retract, but if you need to fire now you cut and just go.


I dont, however, think that it should retract when you are attached to something. That would enable players to achieve lots of speed with no energy penalty, something that shouldn't happen. It would also cause even more problems for the LD in attempting to keep up with a tricky capper.

 

[prowler]

i think you should be able to wrap the grappling hook around yourself and then have a buddy pull it for you so you can spin like a top

then we can all turn into dinosaurs

i call velociraptor

 

[Lotus*]

I'm going to tie someone to a tree in the T:V beta, I swear

 

[Archimedes]

As long as I am using a grappling hook, I demand ninja armor.

 

[zVxTeflon]

i think you should be able to wrap the cable around your neck and ctrl-k in a funny animation.

 

[Kendo]

clothes line would be awesome.

also heavys attaching to fast moving vehicles and slowing/pulling out of air, or just water skiing would be sweet.

 

[Colosus]

There are a few threads discussing the possibility of a grappling hook (GH), but now that we know there is one, let's analyze what the hook should and should not do. Let's try to get some constructive criticism and analysis going...

Should the GH be useable by all armors? Should it be a light-specific weapon?

As Fool said, we already know it isn't the light specific weapon and I don't think they'd make it medium specific.

Should the GH be able to retract and pull players in a direction? i.e. to help them climb up a wall or to pull them towards a building without using a jetpack.

Hell no. It should only be a rope swing style. You latch on to whatever static object you want (not the ground) and it swings you in an arc at the distance from said object. You want something that pulls you, go play quake.

Should the GH be able to hook to other players? If so, how should force be distributed?

I don't think it should, but if it does, distribute force based on speed. Defender standing still hooking capper going 200 kph = capper going 100 kph, defender going 50 kph and grappling hook rope breaks immediately.

Should the GH be able to hook onto the flag?

No

What might the GH be used for in the "Ball" gametype?

Hooking onto the ball would be fine. Great way to steal a pass.

Should the GH be affected by gravity (have an arc) when fired? This could add a dimension of skill, or add a load of frustration.

Yes, it should. Enough skill has already been removed from the game, put something back in that takes practice.

Should GH have ammo? It could make sense, because it would then eliminate the need for any kind of retraction after the GH is fired. Players could just shoot, swing around and object, then let go of the cord.

I like the ammo idea. As soon as you do your arc, you break the rope, thus you lose your hook. 3-5 hooks should be plenty on any map to limit abuse.

Should the GH have a noticeble reload timer? This could prevent rampant swinging of players on maps like the ruined city, but it might also limit the skill cap with the weapon.

Yes, a reload timer that is balanced obviously. Maybe even just the disc launcher reload, but the reload doesn't start until after you disconnect.

Should the jetpack be functional (and affect the player's arc) when swinging with the GH? I believe it should, but would be interested in arguments saying it shouldn't.

Yes, it should.

Anything else you can think of?

You scream like a girl at scary movies.

 

[Natural]

also heavys attaching to fast moving vehicles and slowing/pulling out of air, or just water skiing would be sweet.

Tribes Vengance: Wakeboarding Mod. Sounds cool, but I'd like to see more serious responses to the properties of the hook.

 

[ZProtoss]

Maybe this comment just *looks* bad because its taken out of context. Can you elaborate (if possible) on "Enough skill" and how it has been taken out of the base game so far. To the point where a hook has to be in to restore something that needs practice?

Yes, it should. Enough skill has already been removed from the game, put something back in that takes practice.

 

[Falhawk]

Should the GH be useable by all armors? Should it be a light-specific weapon?

all armors

Should the GH be able to retract and pull players in a direction? i.e. to help them climb up a wall or to pull them towards a building without using a jetpack.

yes but toggleable. So if you want to just swing you don't activate the winch. However if you activate it while swinging around something it should slingshot you.

Should the GH be able to hook to other players? If so, how should force be distributed?

no. no. no.

Should the GH be able to hook onto the flag?

no. no. no.


What might the GH be used for in the "Ball" gametype?

directional changes.

Should the GH be affected by gravity (have an arc) when fired? This could add a dimension of skill, or add a load of frustration.

yes I like this idea.

Should GH have ammo? It could make sense, because it would then eliminate the need for any kind of retraction after the GH is fired. Players could just shoot, swing around and object, then let go of the cord.

I don't think so, I think the hooks themselves let go and the cord winds back onto the gun.

Should the GH have a noticeble reload timer? This could prevent rampant swinging of players on maps like the ruined city, but it might also limit the skill cap with the weapon.

yes, but it shouldn't be that bad. Enough time for the cord to wind back into the gun.

Should the jetpack be functional (and affect the player's arc) when swinging with the GH? I believe it should, but would be interested in arguments saying it shouldn't.

absofreakinglutely

 

[Wulfen]

There are a few threads discussing the possibility of a grappling hook (GH), but now that we know there is one, let's analyze what the hook should and should not do. Let's try to get some constructive criticism and analysis going...

Should the GH be useable by all armors? Should it be a light-specific weapon?

--I don't see any reason to have it armor-specific. I think heavies would look kinda goofy swinging on one though, heh.

Should the GH be able to retract and pull players in a direction? i.e. to help them climb up a wall or to pull them towards a building without using a jetpack.

--I don't think so. Skiing/jetting should still be the main means of movement, with the hook used to assist in altering direction or pulling slingshot moves.

Should the GH be able to hook to other players? If so, how should force be distributed?

--I agree with Fool here, I don't think you should be able to 'hook' a player.

Should the GH be able to hook onto the flag?

--Absolutely not.

What might the GH be used for in the "Ball" gametype?

--I could envision several cool tricks you could pull midair with the hook, but not entirely sure how it would have any different effect in Ball. Perhaps it could be used for 'jukes' while trying to score?

Should the GH be affected by gravity (have an arc) when fired? This could add a dimension of skill, or add a load of frustration.

--With their desired goal to get more of a new playerbase, I don't think adding gravity to the mix would help. Do I think it would increase the challenge and add skill? Yes I do, and I'd be all for it.

Should GH have ammo? It could make sense, because it would then eliminate the need for any kind of retraction after the GH is fired. Players could just shoot, swing around and object, then let go of the cord.

--I like that much more than the old Quake-style retraction. You have a certain amount of uses and then it is useless, so you'd better use them wisely. Not sure if that would fly though.

Should the GH have a noticeble reload timer? This could prevent rampant swinging of players on maps like the ruined city, but it might also limit the skill cap with the weapon.

--I don't think a reload timer is necessary. If it is ammo-based there's not much need for one.

Should the jetpack be functional (and affect the player's arc) when swinging with the GH? I believe it should, but would be interested in arguments saying it shouldn't.

--It should be functional and I can't really see much argument against it.

Anything else you can think of?

--What kind of lengths are we talking about here? How far out should this hook shoot?

 

[Colosus]

Maybe this comment just *looks* bad because its taken out of context. Can you elaborate (if possible) on "Enough skill" and how it has been taken out of the base game so far. To the point where a hook has to be in to restore something that needs practice?

This thread is not meant to talk about all the other features/changes to the game. If you want to read discussion on that, I suggest going through every thread on this forum. It is not necessarily bad, but I am talking about all the changes made to make the game easier for new players. Not EVERYTHING has to be easy. Leave some things difficult.

I agree with making a majority of the game easier to pick up, but if you make everything easy, it is going to get boring, very fast.

 

[Falhawk]

Allowing the hook to retract would allow you to get a tight arc when turning rather than a wide one. It would also help you accelerate.

 

[The Pumpkin King]

Wow, so many grappling hook threads all a sudden, I choose this one.

I really LOVE the idea, I have been secretly hoping for this for a very long time.

My Opinions:

The grappling hook should most certainly be usable by all armors. I mean c'mon, are you really gonna deny fatties and lights the orgasmic experience of Tarzan?

Pulling and retracting. Most likely yes, this should be allowed for the raw fun factor.

I will say however, that allowing the grappling hook to snatch the flag from the flag carrier could be REALLY lame. Using it to pass amongst team members could be interesting, but getting an instant return by hitting an enemy flag carrier with it sounds a little unbalanced to me. I donno though, if it was REALLY difficult and took great skill, maybe it could be awesome.

Grappling onto teammates could be very fun. It could encourage teamplay and make travelling in pairs easier. Grappling onto enemies could be frustrating. I HATED getting body blocked in T1 because all your speed would instantly vanish, much of this happened by accident, which is annoying and not fun. If it was easy just to hook somebody and take all their speed, it
would prolly take away from the fun factor of the game.

Should the grappling hook have an arc? An excellent question. My answer is YES. This is the whole theme of tribes isn't it? Anything that adds skill and finesse to the game creates room for innovation, improvement, and fun. I believe the hook should be just like every other weapon, where gravity, speed, angle, momentum, etc... is all a factor in where the projectile goes when you shoot.

 

[Ixiterra]

Should the GH be useable by all armors? Should it be a light-specific weapon?

I think light and medium should be able to use them. I can't imagine a heavy being able to.

Should the GH be able to retract and pull players in a direction? i.e. to help them climb up a wall or to pull them towards a building without using a jetpack.

Absolutely not. I think that seriously takes away the skill factor of it, and it is just a useless property with jetpacks.

Should the GH be able to hook to other players? If so, how should force be distributed?

No. I can't see how this will work well at all.

Should the GH be able to hook onto the flag?

Ehhh, could go either way on that issue. I'd probably lean towards no.

What might the GH be used for in the "Ball" gametype?

Should the GH be affected by gravity (have an arc) when fired? This could add a dimension of skill, or add a load of frustration.

I don't think it'll add that much skill, and it's not like the disc fires on an arc, so we won't need to suspend our disbelief any more than usual.

Should GH have ammo? It could make sense, because it would then eliminate the need for any kind of retraction after the GH is fired. Players could just shoot, swing around and object, then let go of the cord.

In Special's thread I said maybe limited uses would be good, potentially even just 1. Or it might be retractable and you could save the ammo if you didn't cut the line.

Should the GH have a noticeble reload timer? This could prevent rampant swinging of players on maps like the ruined city, but it might also limit the skill cap with the weapon.

Not sure.

Should the jetpack be functional (and affect the player's arc) when swinging with the GH? I believe it should, but would be interested in arguments saying it shouldn't.

Absolutely. Though, it could get people going really fast in a short period of time and might reduce the skill required to attain those speeds otherwise.

Anything else you can think of?

 

[ZProtoss]

I'm still reading this post a different way than you are. Yes there have been other threads on this, but most of it is speculation with no real indication of how it plays in game. This post seems to say that some of the core elements of the game that have been shown and talked about, have been made easier to a point where not only are they picked up fast, but brought up to a higher end level fast as well.

Again, maybe I'm reading too much into this post and the other, I don't really know since I haven't played the game. But when you hail the grappling hook in a way that comes across as "Yes the grappling hook is bringing back difficulty (to the point of requiring practice) to the game", that's brings scary thoughts about the rest of the game in its current form.

This thread is not meant to talk about all the other features/changes to the game. If you want to read discussion on that, I suggest going through every thread on this forum. It is not necessarily bad, but I am talking about all the changes made to make the game easier for new players. Not EVERYTHING has to be easy. Leave some things difficult.

I agree with making a majority of the game easier to pick up, but if you make everything easy, it is going to get boring, very fast.

 

[Cea]

Should the GH be useable by all armors? Should it be a light-specific weapon?

All armors

Should the GH be able to retract and pull players in a direction? i.e. to help them climb up a wall or to pull them towards a building without using a jetpack.

I think something that tethers you rather than retracts is far better but its gonna make it even harder for n00bs, but that's what single player is for.

It looks like it retracts now, I like to be able to both retract the GH or leave it at a certain length for direction change. Easiest way to do that imo is to press fire to fire (omg!) hold down fire to shorten the rope of the GH, release fire to leave it at that length, fire again to detach the GP. This isn't really complicated but its not intuitive so its unlikely.

Should the GH be able to hook to other players? If so, how should force be distributed?

Nope, don't know how it would work but it may very well have a similar effect to the elf or if it pulls you along with out much impeding what ever your fired at it could make chasing very easy/capping laborious. Plus I reckon that'd suck big time if your ping is >60

Should the GH be able to hook onto the flag?

Nope

Should the GH be affected by gravity (have an arc) when fired? This could add a dimension of skill, or add a load of frustration.

If only a small arc this would be pretty good, it would make long range shorts more about skill than ping imo. A big arc however would be overly limiting.

Should GH have ammo? It could make sense, because it would then eliminate the need for any kind of retraction after the GH is fired. Players could just shoot, swing around and object, then let go of the cord.

Not ammo, energy. Why a wire rope would need energy I don't know but it, again, would be a matter of skill, managing your energy, jets and GH

Should the GH have a noticeble reload timer? This could prevent rampant swinging of players on maps like the ruined city, but it might also limit the skill cap with the weapon.

Doesn't it already? If you watch the video.

Should the jetpack be functional (and affect the player's arc) when swinging with the GH? I believe it should, but would be interested in arguments saying it shouldn't.

Yes, definitely.

 

[The Pumpkin King]

Also, about the ammo. I would have to say NO to that one.

I believe with a heavy reload time between firing the hook, it will be plenty of penalty as you probably will not be able to shoot other weapons while hooking.

In t1 if you could add infinite beacons for beacon stopping, why wouldn't you? So long as they would disappear 3 seconds after the beacon stop and not cake the whole level in beacons.

It sounds to me like it will be a skillful tool, I see no reason to say, "Oh, your times up with it, your only allowed 3 cool ass swoopy moves per run."

I mean, if somebody is doing some cool stuff with it, let them go to work. Like I said before, you probably won't be able to shoot while using it, and you sure as hell can still get killed while hooking.

There aren't any limitations on how many times you can jump or ski, why would you limit the hook as it is a tool of pure movement in a game based around movement? As long as it isn't a weapon that can be spammed at enemies.