DKP, Systems and Deviations

A zero-sum DKP system is stupid.

A zero-sum DKP system as a foundation with attendance factors and various priority rules is a very solid loot system.

There are tons (and I mean tons) of "raiding" guilds out there with zero fucking clue what they're doing. I affectionately refer to them as Wowwiki Strat guilds. You can probably guess why. These guilds tend to outright copy-paste everything that works, DKP systems included. Without the finer points of a good system to balance out unfair occurances like those that have been mentioned, DKP systems suck hard.

All in all, the absolute best loot system you can come up with is any system that is backed by 100% genuine players. I don't know if any such guild exists where every player plays solely to raid, loots exclusively to better guild progression, avoids loot whoring, loot drama, collusion, hoarding, and other petty, greedy shit.

PessimiStick said:
In theory, this is the best system, but in practice, I think this works for *maybe* 1% of guilds. It requires leaders with excellent overall game and spec knowledge, complete honesty, and a guild with implicit trust in them. That's just too many things to expect at once for almost all guilds.
Click to expand...

This is exactly what I'm getting at. If you're part of that 1%, any loot system will do fine for you. And holy fuck do I envy that 1%, because you guys have it good. :D
 
That's one of the reasons I went into this. My guild's DKP system, which is a modified bidding system, had many holes in it all over the place. To even out "value" all items had minimum bid values where you had to bid at least that much. Also had seperate Class and General DKP, you spent General on anything and spent Class on tier 1, 2, and 3 sets. x.5 set items from ZG/AQ20/AQ40 was General and not Class and that was something I thought was a little stupid.

After finding gross errors all over DKP sheets I turned to the question of what goes into a DKP system. I know DKP-working is thankless and misery-riddled. People will complain about this or that, they won't think it's fair, etc. so I respect the people who will step up to tackle the extra time/effort required to do the DKP system to try to assure it's all fair.

I was also curious why people thought the general DKP system from EQ wasn't fair and yet still give over the name of DKP to the new systems. I mean I don't think a bunch of people here played EQ, right?
 
We get:

1 dkp per farm boss
3 dkp per non-farm boss kill (a boss killed less than 5 times)
5 dkp "first kill" bonus
0.5 dkp per attempt of a non-farm boss

We have 2 sets of DKP. Armor (anything that goes in your 8 set slots) and weapon/accessory (weapons, shields, wands/ranged, trinkets, rings).

When an item drops, you send a bid. You pay second highest bid. Certain items are restricted and if you REALLY want it, you've got to pay double the second highest bid. A Neltharion's Tear went to the token shadow priest yesterday for 89. Boots of the Shadow Flame to a druid for 61.

It works well, we have few complaints. Some of the classes have little systems too. The rogues decide who's going to get what pieces when (kind of like a modified suicide list) and then we let it go for minimum. That way we have more DKP for cross class items like taut dragonhide or the head of nef or rings etc al. I couldn't be happier.
 
And x.5 set turn-ins? Some of those sets are in both types, do they go into each respective set?
 
Calder said:
No they don't. Not if they're a shitty player and AFK or making mistakes half the time.
Click to expand...

if they are a shitty player then kick them out of the guild

i don't see the problem that you are finding, obviously retards will be weeded out, we aren't talking about a newbie guild here
 
Calder said:
What?
Click to expand...

The x.5 sets are usually defined as the ZG/AQ20 3 or 5 piece set. I think there is one more set for AQ40 but they are not full 8-piece set. And depending on class, armor pieces go in different slots. And in case of AQ20, the set includes rings, weapons and cloaks.

Clearly each set may end up inside both of Fi.'s loot types. I was asking how those set items are handled in terms of those types.
 
The guild I'm in now did have trouble with the officer in charge of bids cheating and telling favored people what to bid to get things.

The solution was to have a system where you send your tell to two seperate officers.
 
Rouailtagh said:
The x.5 sets are usually defined as the ZG/AQ20 3 or 5 piece set. I think there is one more set for AQ40 but they are not full 8-piece set. And depending on class, armor pieces go in different slots. And in case of AQ20, the set includes rings, weapons and cloaks.

Clearly each set may end up inside both of Fi.'s loot types. I was asking how those set items are handled in terms of those types.
Click to expand...

no they aren't

the only x.5 set is the aq40 set, which is 2.5

zg shit and aq20 shit are just that - zg and aq20 shit

nobody gives a fuck
 
Ztir said:
no they aren't

the only x.5 set is the aq40 set, which is 2.5

zg shit and aq20 shit are just that - zg and aq20 shit

nobody gives a fuck
Click to expand...

Maybe to people who have MC and AQ20 on farm status and working on Naxx. But to those of us who don't feel like raiding as a part-time job they still matter so STFU.
 
are you suggesting you do a dkp system for zg

and it isn't a part time job, it's not being a complete moron, even the most newbie of guilds can clear mc, and if you can do that, there's no point in doing dkp for zg or aq

just /random the gear, jesus
 
Girl Without a Face said:
Yeah, the only sets I've ever heard refered to as x.5 would be the 0.5 set (upgraded dungeon set) and the 2.5 from AQ40.
Click to expand...

I have seen the 1.5 and 2.5 sets from WoWiki a while back. I think 1.5 refers to ZG set, 2.5 is AQ20 and 3.5 is AQ40. Wouldn't hold that to me but they are classified as class sets with class stamps and set bonuses. Only difference is with these sets they are not full 8-piece sets, each class has different slots, and you need rep and "currency" turn-ins to acquire the piece. It wouldn't matter because you really can't /roll them under normal raiding conditions. Maybe if you wanted to do some community service and hold pubs of ZG, AQ20 (which I have seen guilds do) you would but at some stages most guilds start in ZG/AQ20 because they can't field the numbers or FR to break into MC. So to them these 1.5 and 2.5 sets offer something beyong the typical DM/BRS loot.
 
Ztir said:
if they are a shitty player then kick them out of the guild

i don't see the problem that you are finding, obviously retards will be weeded out, we aren't talking about a newbie guild here
Click to expand...
No matter the guild, there will always be players that contribute more than others.
 
AlphaNeo said:
Um, because people save there points for awesome drops instead of just good drops? Example: Most rogues save for weapons. No one in your guild does this?

Better description: People who hoard points, attempting to amass enough points so as to have the first dib on the best item, even if they do not improve their character at all until that item.
Click to expand...

we had a priest in my guild that did this. I was first in line to get the Eye of Div when it dropped (after the first time(s) we downed domo) because i had the most dkp. But instead of waiting on 1 item, my proph shoulders dropped, i bidded on them, won them and domo dropped the eye. I lost and didn't get it for the next 2 months.

The priest joined right after this and would raid almost every instance on the weekend to get dkp and would never bid on any proph unless it went for 20dkp just so he could get the eye. Couple months pass, 2 more priests get thier eyes and thing and huge string of those leafs (fucking hunters :p). All the while i'm still getting geared up and he, every now and then, gets something.

In the end, they combined some "dead*" dkp right before an mc run, we ran mc, i jioned about midway, the eye dropped and i had about 5 more dkp then he did. he waited another month while still having shitty gear. :p

My biggest problem with people like that is they put thier need over the needs of a guild. All that time and he could have been well geared in healing gear and he chose to hold his dkp for *1* item.

* the way our dkp system worked at one time was that it was capped @ 500dkp. anything over that went into "storage" and could only be used if you had 500dkp and needed more to bid against someone. so if you had 450 dkp and 150 stored, you couldn't use the 150. They did away with this system so in the end you had 600dkp before that run because of the "stored" dkp. and that's how i was able to outbid him :D
 
Yeah that would be a hoarder, one of the player types these overly-complicated systems try to factor into. I have seen some systems you an earning/spending ratio to try and curb this as well. I'm guessing the many gist of it is you can only spend a certain amount of your DKP in a raid based solely on your attendence. So you can't just hoard up DKP and then spend it all in one shot on one item, and if you did the ratio would allow other raiders the same equal chance of getting something over a hoarder.
 
t.5 = blue set upgrade
t1 = mc
t2 = bwl
t2.5 = aq40
t3 = naxx

Really if you were going to throw in the zg/mc sets, they'd be t.75 or something.
 
Helado said:
t.5 = blue set upgrade
t1 = mc
t2 = bwl
t2.5 = aq40
t3 = naxx

Really if you were going to throw in the zg/mc sets, they'd be t.75 or something.
Click to expand...

Entry was probably changed since last I saw it some 2 - 3 months ago but oh well. My point was the ZG/AQ20 "sets" are still valuable to starting guilds who haven't gotten to the point of getting to MC so they'd have to be put in a looting system somewhere. At least until a time come a guild progresses to the point they don't need the ZG/AQ20 sets anymore
 
Back
Top