Fartypants
Veteran XX
my guilds DKP system sucks. normal DKP accumulation (not zerosum) AND bidding. Kinda shitty.
Works I suppose, and theyve taken steps to avoid drama (though it makes it even harder for newer people to get loot) by making the winning bid always go for 1 higher then the second highest (instead of worrying someone will take it and wasting DKP because you want to be sure).
Works I suppose, and theyve taken steps to avoid drama (though it makes it even harder for newer people to get loot) by making the winning bid always go for 1 higher then the second highest (instead of worrying someone will take it and wasting DKP because you want to be sure).
If you think it is worth an amount, you bid it. You can either take it for high, or risk waiting forever for another to drop
Keeps DKP bankrolls down
this is basically the point of a dkp systemI wish I was still in a loot-council guild
That guild transferred away to join with some old friends etc. etc., but loot council worked fantastically well while they were on my server.
Now I'm in a guild with a straight non-bid DKP system. All items have a set price in DKP. The raid gets DKP as items are picked up by people/bosses killed/first kill bonus, etc. You can also get DKP by donating to our guild's war effort for pots, etc.
When something drops, it's linked in our guild's loot channel and people declare need. The downside to this system however, is the non-bid mechanic. Whoever has the highest DKP (not tier based w/ rolls) gets it. I'm relatively new to the guild and they've been around since the server went up on release day. This means most vet members have thousands upon thousands of DKP, and I have 200. I'm a war, and have to wait behind nearly all our warriors, rogues, and pallies if I want anything. Kind of daunting for new"er" members.
Of a poorly implemented one perhaps
so new members should receive loot before veterans?
If you think it is worth an amount, you bid it. You can either take it for high, or risk waiting forever for another to drop
Keeps DKP bankrolls down
Unless you workout backdoor deals to keep the dkp you spend significantly lower. In the bid system I was in, we could keep the same 5 people at the top of the dkp list just by rigging most of the bidding.
The biggest problem in dkp hoarding is when you let people do it over multiple instances.
If you think it is worth an amount, you bid it. You can either take it for high, or risk waiting forever for another to drop
Keeps DKP bankrolls down
A bidding system can be "gamed". Somewhat on your own, DEFINATELY with a group (collusion). That's my main issue with it.
Um, because people save there points for awesome drops instead of just good drops? Example: Most rogues save for weapons. No one in your guild does this?
Better description: People who hoard points, attempting to amass enough points so as to have the first dib on the best item, even if they do not improve their character at all until that item.
If the vet only shows up once a week and has hoarded 800 DKP in over a year, while the new member has shown for every raid in the last month and only earned 200, yes.
Possibly the best way to make your guild members extremely disgruntled and pissed off
If your guild has a shortage of a class what is a recruit to do? We've recently seen a terrible shortage of druids and a real life friend of a few guildmates decided to reroll with us as a druid. He went from Maraudon loot to 4-5 pcs of tier3 and some misc healing gear in a couple weeks time.
We didn't do that because we wanted to kiss the ass of the new druid to keep him around, we did it because loot council does what's best for the guild and at that time the best thing to do was get another solid druid geared up to raid with us fulltime. I don't know of anyone who complained, and that druid has probably 95% or better attendance the last couple months. Yeah yeah could've been different, but in our case it worked out great. Loot comes and goes and there's much more important things to worry about than how long a player has been around before picking up a good chunk of loot.
That never really happened in my old ZS DKP guild. We had one rogue that was "in front" forever, and I was second. I would prioritize the loot available to me, and only take items that were mid/low on the list if I could maintain my spot in the order. Is that completely optimal as far as my personal power level is concerned? Probably not. However, things that I was passing on were being taken by other rogues, so the net difference to the guild was 0.
Hoarding only becomes a problem if people are letting things get burned when they are upgrades, and I honestly hope anyone that stupid would get booted from a serious guild anyway.
Most guilds have some sort of attendance tracking that would handle this, and even with ZS DKP, there's always the "don't be a dumbass" rule.
Swamp Kitten
Veteran X
This is the EXACT problem I run into. 3 other warriors and I joined the guild, and, barring good play by our healers and DPS, we're the reason the guild has recently FLOWN through Naxx. There are vets that don't show or rarely show with a shitton of DKP and just take what they want, while the new"er" (bear in mind, by new I mean 3-6 months, not weeks, as the vets have been there for 2 years) have to wait in line behind whoever decides to show for a raid and take shit they'll never use.
In 99% of cases our Officers and Raid Leaders take a fairly hands-off approach to loot except when faced with resist gear and GBU'ing important items to certain healers that need it most.
/endbitter
EDIT: I should also mention many of the vets I have this issue with are also incredibly stupid and suck at the game. However, it is getting better now that we're required to pay attention in Naxx or wipe the raid--they've started getting less invites so /clap
Ugh...pisses me off sometimes ;KH:Rkaser; oogabooga
Most DKP sites track attendance, if someone only shows up once a week and gets loot because they have more DKP that's retarded.
Obviously someone who's been there 2+years and has solid attendance deserves the loot, no question
No they don't. Not if they're a shitty player and AFK or making mistakes half the time.
R
Rouailtagh
Guest
Okay okay, It's nice to see some reasonably thought-out replies with zero (if any) flaming/trolling but the responses led me to a new line of thinking. And that is mainly why DKP or similar is used in the first place.
Obviously there's the "order from chaos" theory. You have set amount of loot and not everyone will be able to get something, so you need a system to dictate who gets what. The underlying theory behind the system is to allow people who invest more time raiding to have more priority over loot. This serves as a reward to promote raid attendence in addition to helping the guild raids overall. I mean you don't want a nice tanking shield to go to a DPS shaman or healadin right? Of course not, you want it to go to a MT warrior who has excellent attendence and shows up so he can be beter equipped to tank bosses easier and making everyone else's jobs a little bit easier. Also to provide as much advantage as possible when facing new bosses for the first time and strats are relatively unknown.
But now I ask this question, what kinds of abuse can be done with DKP systems and what is done to attempt to curb such abuse? I did hear one being "hording" which is clearly stockpiling DKP in an attempt to have free rein over what loot you get. So why not put into account how your system makes things as fair as can be had and how it curbs abuse.