Game of Thrones Season 8

We established in season 1, that in the world of Westeros, the stereotypical "good guy" doesn't win like they're supposed too. They lose to the villain all the time in contravention to expectations. Ed Stark, Rob Stark, even Jon Snow... betrayed for trying to do the right thing. Even minor characters fall prey.

Dany T's story follows a very predictable heroes journey right from the beginning. She follows the "good guy" model for 6+ seaons and you had to know it was going to have to come off the rails for her at some point. She couldn't actually win as that was far too predictable and totally not the Game of Thrones way, despite what we (most of us) would have wanted to see happen. We want the little guy/girl with the golden heart to win.

So, it's not that she lost it is why and how she lost. The writers had put so much momentum behind her trajectory for 7 seasons as the prophetic hero, raised from nothing, to reclaim her birthright and restore prosperity to the kingdom by vanquishing evil... that to flip her character in such a jarring way is just unacceptable let alone believable.

You can't believe that she went insane and that all the characters that came to adore and believe in her would turn against her. You would need a whole season to grind down the pedestal the writers put her on to make her character susceptible to a change of personality that the audience would accept. There was plenty of ammunition in the story for that to happen.
 
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So Dany's dad killed Ned's father and brother(so Sansa's/Bran's/Arya's Grandfather) and planned to burn the city. She had a birth right to the throne but ol' Robert stripped that shit away. At age 16 she's living with a wealthy dude who marry's her off to Khal Drogo, who btw has 40k Dothraki dudes ready to fight(poor dany). Her brother is a fuck nut and gets what he had coming to him. At some point Dany believes she is entitled to the throne even tho her dad was a fuck nut and deserved what he got as well. Same dude who marry's her off gives her dragon eggs and after some stupid shit, she has 3 dragons. She has a soft spot for slaves and goes on a mission to free the them from very old and successful cities who have done nothing to her. She steals the Unsullied, burns a bunch of people, blah blah more burning. It's pretty clear she has no understanding of how to deal with tough situations and constantly verbally threatens Westeros. She loses control of her conquered cities and pretty much peaces the fuck out. She is still focused on the throne even tho she has yet to prove herself as somebody who can actually be a good leader.

Conqueror? Yes
Good Queen? No
Is she bad? No
Is she innocent? No

She gets to Westeros, demands Jon bend the knee because she is so fucking great. Falls for Jonny boi and goes north with him. She loses a dragon. she questions Jaime because he killed her dad(lmao shes in winterfell - the home of the dudes her father killed and the grandchildren of rickard stark - no wonder they dont trust her). She finds out jonny boi has a claim better than hers. She loses a buttload of dothraki and unsullied. She loses jorah, another dragon, then missandei. She feels betrayed by jonny boi. Gets betrayed by Varys and Tyrion. Then she finally gets to her destination and loses her shit because she's tired of losing people she loves and getting betrayed by people she thought she could trust.

If you can understand why Cersei went full bitch you should be able to understand why Dany flipped.
 
Laughing-Stork said:
So Dany's dad killed Ned's father and brother(so Sansa's/Bran's/Arya's Grandfather) and planned to burn the city. She had a birth right to the throne but ol' Robert stripped that shit away. At age 16 she's living with a wealthy dude who marry's her off to Khal Drogo, who btw has 40k Dothraki dudes ready to fight(poor dany). Her brother is a fuck nut and gets what he had coming to him. At some point Dany believes she is entitled to the throne even tho her dad was a fuck nut and deserved what he got as well. Same dude who marry's her off gives her dragon eggs and after some stupid shit, she has 3 dragons. She has a soft spot for slaves and goes on a mission to free the them from very old and successful cities who have done nothing to her. She steals the Unsullied, burns a bunch of people, blah blah more burning. It's pretty clear she has no understanding of how to deal with tough situations and constantly verbally threatens Westeros. She loses control of her conquered cities and pretty much peaces the fuck out. She is still focused on the throne even tho she has yet to prove herself as somebody who can actually be a good leader.

Conqueror? Yes
Good Queen? No
Is she bad? No
Is she innocent? No

She gets to Westeros, demands Jon bend the knee because she is so fucking great. Falls for Jonny boi and goes north with him. She loses a dragon. she questions Jaime because he killed her dad(lmao shes in winterfell - the home of the dudes her father killed and the grandchildren of rickard stark - no wonder they dont trust her). She finds out jonny boi has a claim better than hers. She loses a buttload of dothraki and unsullied. She loses jorah, another dragon, then missandei. She feels betrayed by jonny boi. Gets betrayed by Varys and Tyrion. Then she finally gets to her destination and loses her shit because she's tired of losing people she loves and getting betrayed by people she thought she could trust.

If you can understand why Cersei went full bitch you should be able to understand why Dany flipped.
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Yeah, we've established this, it just wasn't executed very well.
 
If they'd taken some more time with it, shown her isolation, shown the plots against her (Varys) 'getting close' and charging her paranoia, spent some more time over the deaths like Jorah's and then Jon's "betrayal".. Then yeah, it could work. A slow build-up of pressure and final snap - which should have happened before the battle, not just when she's sitting on a dragon staring at the keep.

But because they were so determined to finish everything so quickly, it was all rushed, and the about-face effectively comes out of nowhere.

Still absolute bullshit that the North secedes and no-one else joins them.
 
She didn't even have to turn, she could have straight up lost of the old fashioned way, gone out a hero. There were many ways this could have ended better and given fans closure.
 
Laughing-Stork said:
people acting like it came out of nowhere surprises me
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It came out of nowhere because she had already won and she had NEVER purposefully attacked the innocent ever. It's one thing to say that the build up of various traumas, failures, and betrayals might cause her to snap and go burn mode, but every instance of her doing that in 8 seasons was directed towards active enemies, not a city of innocents. The winners of game 7 don't start throwing punches.
 
Laughing-Stork said:
If you can understand why Cersei went full bitch you should be able to understand why Dany flipped.
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Dude, Cersei went full bitch at the age of 8 or something. She was already cussing out women 5 times her age and spitting on them.

What happened with Danny would be akin to Cersei, upon seeing Jaime die, deciding to become an epic medical nurse and save all the children from world diseases and starvation.

It's just dumb x100.

And for the record, Cersei didn't go full bitch at the end. She went full wimp. No wildfire plots, not kids with bombs strapped to their chests. No wildfire catapults. NOTHING. A woman that burned an entire sept/temple to get the power she wanted just sat there and took it. She did absolutely nothing. Was just as big a disappointment as Danny flipping.

It's fine if characters have life altering changes when they are realistic. Jaime changing when he got his hand chopped off made sense. It was cool.

The Danny thing was like reading a book written by an elementary schooler or something. And then "THIS" happened. And then "THIS". With zero connection between the events.

They may as well have had Bron, upon seeing a hooker die, decide to become the world's greatest mountain climber. But only after seeing the 7th hooker die. The first 6 times it happened it was fine.

Shit was so random and stupid.

I'll bet GRR Martin laughed his ass off watching that, cringing non-stop.

Show was already blooming little fat turd blossoms by season 5 though. I knew this would happen and ranted about the whole stannis thing with my usual manic posting nature.
 
GRRM has one massive win out of this anyway.

There are millions of people out there who would never have heard of him without this series. Millions of people who became hooked on his story. His story which is not done yet.

The shitty progression of the story from where he left it has left a huge audience for his next books that wouldn't have otherwise been there, hoping for a better ending...

and absolutely, it won't be the same. I'd say just as he's happy to kill off the good guy, he'd be happy to kill off that storyline altogether, and do it early on so the readers know this isn't something they've already seen before.

Those things will sell like absolute crazy.
 
I hope that dany dies within the first few chapters of winds of winter just to really get the lulz
 
Oh, and for anyone that wants to go it another way:



Crusader Kings 2 (A fantastic grand strategy game in its own right) has a mod to convert everything into Game of Thrones.. lands, houses, dynasties.. basically, this lets you take control of a dynasty and control it for generations.. military conquest, diplomatic skullduggery, strategic marriages, assassinations... it's all there. Quite enjoyable.
 
I just really dislike the character development in episode 5 of Arya. They spend how many minutes of that episode, just following her, watching her watch innocents die in Kings landing to dragon fire, and for what? I thought she would end up realizing Dany had to die and be the one to do it. I mean, they even give her a horse that entered the scene majestically, to help her leave kings landing safely? And then all she does in the next episode is tell Jon that Dany will see him as a threat and then decide to become a sailor?
 
hastie said:
I just really dislike the character development in episode 5 of Arya. They spend how many minutes of that episode, just following her, watching her watch innocents die in Kings landing to dragon fire, and for what? I thought she would end up realizing Dany had to die and be the one to do it. I mean, they even give her a horse that entered the scene majestically, to help her leave kings landing safely? And then all she does in the next episode is tell Jon that Dany will see him as a threat and then decide to become a sailor?
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You didn't see the hamfisted Pale Horse imagery?
 
LGBR said:
I hope that dany dies within the first few chapters of winds of winter just to really get the lulz
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I was gonna say.. yep, something completely anti-climactic like she just falls off a dragon, or gets a scratch and drops dead because whoops, no-one invented antibiotics yet.

Or kill off Jon.. who really is just a bastard.. Haven't read the books, but my understanding is that it's been hinted and GRRM's pretty much said that's the case.. but he's perfectly within his rights to go "Psych! NOPE!"
 
I'm in full agreement with the show being mishandled. But given Dany's track record of things turning to shit after she conquers a city, one might understand she wasn't in the mood for reverting commoners into her followers. She didn't go back and free the slaves again, she fucking left. She is done dealing with the aftermath.

Power seeking human during her own perceived greatest moment is dealing with the loss of loved ones and feeling betrayed/unloved by those who have survived, now see's her enemy's followers running through the streets. It's revenge against an entire city that has supported people who stole her throne.

*gasp* dany thinks she's knows best yet again???

boy i sure loved it when she burned stuff that was c00l af tho thats y i liked her

dragon r fkn awesome bruh!!
 
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