We were ahead of our time when it came to out of the box thinking

Validuz said:
The rotation of the wheels doesn't matter. They are free-spinning. They simply need to overcome the resting inertia. This isn't a difficult thing to do. A average person could easily roll a large wheel.

It doesn't matter if the conveyor belt was moving 200mph in the other direction. The wheels are "free" spinning. The engines aren't linked to the wheels for movement.

I get this weird feeling that most people try to impose common sense rules of cars and wheels to this experiment.
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Ahhh no... Planes/Jets have to get up to a certain forward moving speed, to get enough air moving over the wings, to create lift.
Take the wheels off in your mind,,, is the plane going to lift off?

The wheels are "free" spinning.
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and so is basically the conveyor belt
If the plane doesn't move forward there is no lift
 
Odio said:
no, those fat faggots used an air plane, not a jet. an air plane has a prop to move air over the wings and generate lift. a 747 can't do that.
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The props on a plane Do Not move enough wind over the wings to create lift. The props or jets push against air and move the plane forwarded... slowly at first and then faster and faster and faster,,, until there is enough air moving over the wings to create lift.

You can have fighter jets with enough thrust to practically lift themselves into the air with barely any wind going over the wings... but now we're getting into rocket areas
 
SeVeReD said:
Ahhh no... Planes/Jets have to get up to a certain forward moving speed, to get enough air moving over the wings, to create lift.
Take the wheels off in your mind,,, is the plane going to lift off?


and so is basically the conveyor belt
If the plane doesn't move forward there is no lift
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Severed, how do you not understand this yet?

The wheels are free spinning, so it doesn't matter how fast the conveyor belt is moving, it's just gonna make the wheels spin faster, it's not going to affect the airspeed of the body of the plane itself being pushed through the air by the props/jets. :shrug:

it's pretty simple when you think about it. :shrug:
 
it's going to make the wheels spin faster
and the plane is still on the conveyor belt
not moving forward which is needed for lift
How do you not understand this

It's not a rocket
It's not a helicopter
it has wings that need air moving over them

remember the wheels are free spinning
and the conveyor belt 'exactly matches' the rotation of the wheels
that plane is not moving forward
which is what it needs to do to lift off

I didn't
but maybe you need ot watch NGFM's 2nd vid
 
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read severeds post again he's right it's the wind going over the wings that creates lift not the prop

if the treadmill is moving too fast the plane wont go anywhere and wont fly
 
SeVeReD said:
it's going to make the wheels spin faster
and the plane is still on the conveyor belt
not moving forward which is needed for lift
How do you not understand this

It's not a rocket
It's not a helicopter
it has wings that need air moving over them

remember the wheels are free spinning
and the conveyor belt 'exactly matches' the rotation of the wheels
that plane is not moving forward
which is what it needs to do to lift off

I didn't
but maybe you need ot watch NGFM's 2nd vid
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The wheels will simply spin twice as fast. The force being applied to get the plane moving forward has nothing to do with the wheels.

Your example of an airplane sitting on the tarmac without wheels is faulty. There isn't enough thrust to overcome the friction. This problem mostly doesn't exist on a treadmill, other than minor friction in the wheel bearings.
 
if the treadmill keeps the plane in place there's not enough wind to create lift

this is plane 101 guys
 
By the way there totally is a scenario where the airplane won't take off and it would have to be that the treadmill is moving fast enough to burn out the wheel bearings before the plane gathers enough speed for the wings to generate lift
 
SeVeReD said:
The props on a plane Do Not move enough wind over the wings to create lift. The props or jets push against air and move the plane forwarded... slowly at first and then faster and faster and faster,,, until there is enough air moving over the wings to create lift.

You can have fighter jets with enough thrust to practically lift themselves into the air with barely any wind going over the wings... but now we're getting into rocket areas
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This is all correct and factual.
But you’re just missing the bit that the treadmill has essentially no effect on the aircraft. The airplanes wheels just spin. The wheels will be spinning twice as fast as normal on take off, but the treadmill isn’t imparting any force on the aircraft.
 
amRam said:
By the way there totally is a scenario where the airplane won't take off and it would have to be that the treadmill is moving fast enough to burn out the wheel bearings before the plane gathers enough speed for the wings to generate lift
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Admittedly this is what got me the first time I heard this question. I will own this. Wheel/tire/bearing speed is a thing with bigger airplanes, and there is a limitation metric for it that would easily be exceeded and start melting things in a catastrophic manner before take off speed is reached.
 
Until the wheels lift off the ground
the plane and the wheels are rolling on the ground
being pushed forward by air pushing against other air
by a prop or a jet ,,pushing air back against other air...
When on the ground the prop/jet propels you forward on your wheels
When you have reached, say 65 mph in a Cessna 150
The wings have enough wind flowing over them to create lift
and the pilot pulls back on the wheel

On a treadmill going clockwise and the free spinning wheels going counterclockwise
exactly matched ... I don't see that plane going forward to get up enough airspeed to create lift on the wings

Anyone here ever dynoed there car???
 
aur0ra said:
Admittedly this is what got me the first time I heard this question. I will own this. Wheel/tire/bearing speed is a thing with bigger airplanes, and there is a limitation metric for it that would easily be exceeded and start melting things in a catastrophic manner before take off speed is reached.
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That's the thing about the question. There are practical physical limitations you'd have to consider for a technical answer. I don't know if that's in the spirit of the question though.

SeVeReD said:
Until the wheels lift off the ground
the plane and the wheels are rolling on the ground
being pushed forward by air pushing against other air
by a prop or a jet ,,pushing air back against other air...
When on the ground the prop/jet propels you forward on your wheels
When you have reached, say 65 mph in a Cessna 150
The wings have enough wind flowing over them to create lift
and the pilot pulls back on the wheel

On a treadmill going clockwise and the free spinning wheels going counterclockwise
exactly matched ... I don't see that plane going forward to get up enough airspeed to create lift on the wings

Anyone here ever dynoed there car???
Click to expand...

You have to stop using cars in the argument. It doesn't translate. If you imagine frictionless wheels then the airplane absolutely will fucking take off, because the force applied to the wheels by the treadmill is irrelevant.
 
SeVeReD said:
Anyone here ever dynoed there car???
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and THIS is your problem. you are comparing a car to a plane. a car moves because the engine is powering the wheels to beat the friction of the road. a plane has no engine powering the wheels, the engine is pushing air to move.

*sigh*
 
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