Sniper rifle's suck 50% of the time

T

Thrax Panda

God Complex4
Veteran X
One of the great things about Tribes is that when close combat starts it's not usually over in an instant, and both parties usually get several shots off. You can see your attacker, and you can actually predict his actions based on where he's going, what he tends to do, what weapon he has out, etc...

With the sniper rifle that all goes out the window. one minute you're doing fine with 80% or 90% health, the next you're dead. For the person who's dead, that wasn't a fun battle. It's never fun to get killed by somebody who you didn't know was there (don't get me started on the cloaking pack & shocklance combo...). For the sniper it was fun. OOB snipers love that, and many play the game just for the fun of picking off some poor schmuck who never saw them. That's fine (I hate you all, but it's still fine).

On the other hand, in a match, a capper knows where the snipers are likely to be, when they're likely to shoot him, and what he needs to do to avoid getting sniped. At that point it's again a fair battle, and when the red line goes just past the side of your head and you drop down over the hill still breathing it's a good feeling. When they get you, you don't feel cheated, because you knew they were there, and you just didn't quite do your job right. At least the D-Snipers are honest about their job.

With the speed that Tribes embraces, there really does need to be something like the sniper rifle. It doesn't need to be hit scan, but it should be very fast, and very powerful (but not 100% deadly).

So the key is balancing the need for the sniper on D with the annoyance of the sniper on O Lucky for me, that's not my job. :)

BTW, all you O-Snipers can cry that it's a legit tactic all you want, it won't make us hate you any less, even though you're right. The weapon exists so you can use it - just don't expect the rest of us to talk to you at LANs.
 
In my experience, the ONLY thing a capper can do against a sniper is to create a barrier between them -- a building, or more likely, a hill. BUT, that is obviously map dependant, sometimes there are just no routes without a line of sight from the enemy flag area. You may think you can go faster, or move unpredictably, but this seriously only works against the mediocre snipers. I get sniped when even I don't know how I'm going to move when I hit the ground, or IMMEDIATELY after a disc jump, it just leaves me thinking 'how'd they do that?'

And what can people who aren't cappers do against them, even to kill them? I doubt offense would go all the way up a hill just to kill ONE sniper, it would be out of the way. The only way to keep them on their toes is to countersnipe, but even then it's moot and also considered o-sniping.

I also want to add that I'm not completely against sniping, in Capture the Flag at least. The sniper rifle ensures that the capper must stay on his toes all the way to the stand, instead of just past the enemy base. BUT, it has no place in most other Tribes gametypes. As for the CTF sniper rifle, I don't like its current implementation. It should be good at long range, but right now it's good at ANY range. Also the fact that it does so much damage and it's completely instant. Maybe if there were some way to know a shot is about to be fired, so you can at least TRY to do something.
 
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I don't see the problem exogen. The sniper rifle is only lame in non-CTF gametypes, and the solution for that was discovered in T2:

In Arena, have an option (on by default) to drop the sniper rifle damage to 40% of the normal damage amount.

The same should probably apply to Duel and Deathmatch.
 
exogen said:
In my experience, the ONLY thing a capper can do against a sniper is to create a barrier between them -- a building, or more likely, a hill. BUT, that is obviously map dependant, sometimes there are just no routes without a line of sight from the enemy flag area.
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This is much more of an issue in T2 with its almost complete lack of lateral mobility than it is in T1 where you can "dodge" to a certain extent.
 
Okay, I'm talking CTF only here.

Exogen either must be able to or knows lots of people that never miss with a laser rifle. That's the ONLY thing that I can think of that would validate his argument.
 
What you're forgetting Thrax is what I'd like to call every gamers...flare, if you will. Almost every gamer now a days focuses on two things, killing their opponent and looking cool while doing it. Now, take the example which you brought forth, the close combat laser rifle thingermajing, the majority of Tribes 1/2 players would automatically switch to disc/chain/SL upon close combat, it's a mutual agreement that almost every gamer shares, sort of like the chainwhoring thing. Anyway, take for example the new mod for half life, specialist. Now, it's hella easy for anyone to super jump on top of a building, constantly whore the rifle and bullet time it up whenever approached, yet no one does it, they feel the need to go in, dive, bullet time and kill people Akimbo style. I find it very interesting as well as crucial towards any game.

Give a triber a katana, and you'll find it being the most used weapon in the game, hell, thats why people chase with discs knowing that they have a 95% chance of missing.

edit: wow, and I forgot to make my point.

Don't take out a weapon because anyone feels that gamers might 'abuse' the weapon, take it out for a just reason, such as overempowerment, derailed story line etc.
 
I never liked the sniper rifle, but it really does help balance the game out. It's great to be able to fly as high as you want in tribes, and one would think this would be a great gettaway tactic (go as high as you can, hit a slope and you're homefree), but b/c the sniper rifle covers the skies it's pretty much a suicide against good LD.

That's why ground cover is a good balance. Escape and stay low, the chasers can still keep up and it makes for an intense game (imo).

I think the only potential problem is mobility. If there's no mobility in the players there are just some cases where you can't dodge, and the snipers own the map.

And multiple snipers are always annoying. It should be something that covers the skies, but doesn't replace chasing. Find away to make chasing more effective than sniping someone who's keeping low and I think that would indirectly balance out the weapon.

(start baseless speculation) Also there's armor versitlity to consider. If medium armor has the sniper rifle in T:V then your chasers aren't going to be equiped with the gun. That'd probably put a pretty big wrench in the defending machine from the old Tribes Days. I think we'd see the farmers being the ones doing the sniping. It'd mean the defense has to decide if they want to stack up a bunch of sniper/chasers or diversify. But I kind of like the idea of the farmers taking a more active role in the game then just setting up turrets.
 
Thrax Panda said:
This is much more of an issue in T2 with its almost complete lack of lateral mobility than it is in T1 where you can "dodge" to a certain extent.
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Not to mention that cappers don't always use the same routes and, in t1, are probably going 876754654 mph.
 
Shinigami said:
Not to mention that cappers don't always use the same routes and, in t1, are probably going 876754654 mph.
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you'd be surprised about tribes 2 cappers now a days. Their grabs are flawless and on par with tribes 1 speed, the only thing that stops them is if they linger in one spot or runs a constant route.
 
Sir Lucius said:
I never liked the sniper rifle, but it really does help balance the game out.
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Dunno if Lucius pointed out the fact that if you're playing LD/MD/HD or whatever, and armed with a laser, you're not chasing, meaning you're putting your money on one shot.
 
Gundamflare said:
you'd be surprised about tribes 2 cappers now a days. Their grabs are flawless and on par with tribes 1 speed, the only thing that stops them is if they linger in one spot or runs a constant route.
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Well, that only reenforces what i'm saying. :]
 
Gundamflare said:
Dunno if Lucius pointed out the fact that if you're playing LD/MD/HD or whatever, and armed with a laser, you're not chasing, meaning you're putting your money on one shot.
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I pointed that out in the other thread. :\
 
oshiz im gonna get flamed for this post

This kind of scrub mentality is what keeps Tribes away from high level competition. Even in #1 matches few players are REALLY REALLY playing to win. Doing everything in their power to kill their opponent no matter how "cheap". I'm possibly more guilty of this than anyone, I used to be a big scrub :( . Tribes has relied on player balancing for a long time. T1 and T2 are far too chain and snipe dependent at their highest level of play. Tribes should be balanced even when all players are playing to win (i.e. chainwhoring).
 
I don't really thinking changing the damage it does across gametypes 'fixes' anything. While I do think there is a place for sniping in CTF but not other gametypes, there should be a way to make the sniper rifle's damage universal while keeping it balanced -- this is one of the reasons they're hoping people play single-player, right? So after having experience with all the weapons and packs in single player, they behave how you expect them to in multiplayer also? None of this 'oh, but in THIS gametype is only does half the damage' stuff.
 
Sir Lucius said:
You could add a laser sight to the sniper rifle so you know someone's aiming at you? :shrug:
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That's what I was thinking, or make your screen tint a little red (or something that does the same) when someone with the rifle has their crosshairs on you, sorta like right after someone misses you and they shine that thing in your eyes (except not nearly as bright of course).
 
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