[ShieldPack] Wendy's observations and thoughts

Wendy

Veteran XV
I’ve been using the shield pack exclusively and have been trying to figure out why it’s the least used pack of the 4. Here’s what I came up with and suggestions to make it better…


Thoughts on Offense:

On offense you are either capping or destroying. It’s safe to say cappers only use the energy pack. As for attackers, mediums are much more efficient piloting vehicles outdoors, leaving heavy offense to dish out the major damage indoors. Typically an HO will want to destroy as much as quickly as possible (speed pack) and as many times as possible (e pack!).
Now the problem with T:V is that because of the spawn invulnerability, it’s almost impossible to hold a base. In addition, the spawn layout is BETTER compared to T1/T2 and repairing is incomparably faster. As a result you will have to hold base MUCH longer or last MUCH longer destroying multiple things as compared to T1/T2 to compensate for T:V’s gameplay changes. This is where the shield pack comes in, and unfortunately fails.

**Shield pack was used mainly for holding base in the past but is now considerably harder to do in T:V.


Thoughts on Defense:

In terms of defense, you have 2 kinds of inventories, an automatic repairer (or 2) deployed, a resupply station, AND players with access to the emergency station, so why worry so much about conserving health with the shield pack? In fact between caps you'll probably want to have a repair pack to repair yourself and turrets/mines around. And if you’re running low, just kill yourself and respawn!

**Health is barely an issue on defense, therefore the shield pack loses most of its value.


My suggestions:

This boils down to my most important thought- **Because the shield pack is so non-versatile, it should seriously excel in its simplistic use. This involves making the passive function slightly better than what it is now. 30-35% is ideal, and should make HO last slightly longer vs respawners and/or the outnumbering defense.
In addition, **by shortening the active function and reducing the cool down rate (even more), you can better mimic the on/off type use that T1/T2 players were accustomed to before. I believe in general that the pack will yield more reward with the more precise control you can use over it. Also, if the active function will last shorter, it should block more damage, 80% ideal, 85% stretching it a bit.
Any possibility for a passive ability of reduced knock back as well? This serves well for HO, HoF and cappers in general, where maintaining an exact position and specific route is crucial.

*****Raise passive to 30-35%. Shorten duration but quicken cool down. Raise active to 80-85%. Reduce knock back.


Additional reasons:

By making the shield pack EXTREMELY resistant to damage for a short period of time, this reinforces more on the cappers role to survive those crucial seconds in grabbing (+active%). Also it will serve more for a select-your-damage type of role instead of an anti-incoming-spam! measure (-duration/-cooldown). In terms of HO, if you’re not shooting nor moving around faster, you might as well last longer blowing stuff up (+passive%).

Misc info:
*If you’re piloting or manning a turret, the shield pack is most efficient as your health will be considerably lower than whatever machinery you’re in.
*Hit the active button before disc jumping to go HO.
*Critisism is a great thing. All I ask is that you reason things out and at least point out stuff you think I overlooked.
 
I use the shield pack almost exclusivly. I cap with it (very effectivly, I might add), I defend with it (I've gotten pretty good at triple disc-jumping to catch up with cappers), I hold the flag with it (grappler + shield pack is almost unfair). I don't think it's underpowered at all. Except for medium capping and HO, where I use an energy pack, I find the shield pack extremely powerful.

Making the pack absorb more damage and recharge faster would make it a serious pain-in-the rear to fight against. It's more fun to fight someone with an enery pack than to fight someone with a shield pack.
 
There are lots of excellent cappers that use the shield pack while capping. It's always a bitch when you lay down a couple hand grenades and a disc on the stand, then see someone come out with 70% + health at high speed :/

Maybe you can't hold a base by yourself anymore for extended periods of time, but you shouldn't be able to. T:V is a faster game all around... faster to destroy a base and its assets, faster to cap, faster to repair.

I have not seen people have any trouble breaking a base in T:V.... there are no more large automated turrets, no more 14+ autotracking mini turrets with two sensors apiece, no more mine discs, no more 1 shot in the back shocklances, no more shield penetrating blasters, no more high speed shrikes bowling heavies over midfield.... and it needs to be EASIER to camp a base?


:|
 
At first I thought shield pack active could last longer. But since a lot of the maps have close bases it would get abused. Grab flag disk jump and the enemy is gonna need a lot of firepower in the short time to base to take you down.

Holding bases is tough in T:V cause they are essentially 1 room, defenders spawn there and always have the repair pack right next to the gen.
 
The main thing I've used the shield pack for in the past was dueling (mousemod) which I think is one of the funest aspects of the game. Now it's much more advantagous to us an energy pack and fight from a further distance. If the effect of the shield pack was raised it would result in having to fight closer and use other weapons insted of just the spinfuser and energy pack.
 
i would love it if the shield has amore obvious color/effect on ammo.

the color could be a warm gold like the shield in the original dune movie,
and maybe explosions wouldnt hapen against the active function, they weapons would just get absorbed.

i also agree an increase in the passive function would be nice, and maybe another color indicator to show that an armor has a shield pack and is in passive mode. (he'll flash gold or something)

the transparent shield isn't too impresive graphically.
 
I use the shield pack quite a bit. As with Mr Unlucky, I use it both for capping and defending the flag. I have found that chasing with the shield pack can be very advantagious because the capper is coming in at high speed. You are standing still. With the shield pack I usually get in two DJ's while active is on, and if needbe can easily get another one in while still retaining health. Especially on small maps (emerald, for instance), shield pack greatly outweighs epack.

As for capping, I use both energy and shield, depending mostly on the size of the map and the location of the flag. On junk, with lots of wide open areas and an elevated flag, I use the energy pack. On emerald and cavern I use exclusively shield (I, too, agree that shield pack + grapple on cavern is brutal)

Anyways, while seeing it upped would be good for me, because I use it so much, I don't think it is necesary.
 
All of my competitive experience absolutely disagrees with you. Shield pack is being used more and more and I would say is now the most common pack in competition. Medium shield loadouts are all the D can do to try and hold the flag on maps like cavern, emerald, spiridan etc. HO use the shield almost exclusively. If you have a good route the epack reduces the time you get back to their base by a miniscule amount. You can survive much longer with a shield and destroy much more. Cappers are definatly starting to shield in both medium and light loadouts.

The devs should really look into nerfing the shield.
 
No! Shield pack is evil! It doesn't need to be made more powerful; I think the opposite actually. The active damage reduction needs to be nerfed a little imo so defense can do more than 10 damage w/ a disc launcher to medium cappers llama grabbing the flag on maps like emerald, cavern, tropics, (basically most every T:V map since bases are relatively close together) :closet:
 
TeckMan said:
All of my competitive experience absolutely disagrees with you. Shield pack is being used more and more and I would say is now the most common pack in competition. Medium shield loadouts are all the D can do to try and hold the flag on maps like cavern, emerald, spiridan etc. HO use the shield almost exclusively. If you have a good route the epack reduces the time you get back to their base by a miniscule amount. You can survive much longer with a shield and destroy much more. Cappers are definatly starting to shield in both medium and light loadouts.

The devs should really look into nerfing the shield.

I agree with you on all aspects.
 
Shield pack is currently a very powerful tool, but only to someone with a certain level of experience. More so than the other packs, the shield pack is inneffective if the user is new to T:V, or even not well-practiced with the shield pack itself.
 
Mr_Unlucky said:
Making the pack absorb more damage and recharge faster would make it a serious pain-in-the rear to fight against. It's more fun to fight someone with an enery pack than to fight someone with a shield pack.

The packs should be WORTH something putting on. You SHOULD have a bit of difficulty fighting someone with a pack on --provided your pack gives an advantage in a different way.The active function, since we can turn on/off at will should last longer or the recharge should be much shorter. I tried just using shield pack for a long while and i just can't get over how short the active duration is. It seems to be only useful for a disc jump :-( imho or to save that one shot coming your way...almost like every few minutes (*seemingly*) you only get this one little burst to use. How is this a good thing? I am not trying to flame I just want to understand the design rationale.
I like the pack active/passive concept but feels (like other aspects) to fall short.
Can someone make a mod to play around w/ these settings to find a nice, more *fun*, useful balance?
 
Wendy said:
...As a result you will have to hold base MUCH longer or last MUCH longer destroying multiple things as compared to T1/T2 to compensate for T:V’s gameplay changes. This is where the shield pack comes in, and unfortunately fails.

Like 90% of my loadouts have shield in it. I play HO, and using a shield pack has actually allowed me to hold a base as you would state it "MUCH longer". So I don't think it has failed in that regard. Yes, in relation to T1/T2 the amount of time you hold a base is greatly reduced, BUT also in relation to T1/T2 the amount of downtime you spend skiing to the enemy base has also been greatly reduced. So I think it balances out. I've seen scrims, even pubs, where the enemy base never even came back up because of the constant stream of HO with spacks.
 
"The devs should really look into nerfing the shield."

People start getting good with a tool or tactic, and people start crying nerf? Buckler anyone?
 
JackLuminous said:
I tried just using shield pack for a long while and i just can't get over how short the active duration is.

In terms of dueling (which I'm assuming is what you are trying to discuss), each pack seems to carry with it a different "style" for attacking an enemy. That style is even slightly changed based on weapon loadout. When a speed pack or epack I tend to be more successful and attackin very agressively to make sure the enemy cannot fight back once my pack energy is gone (for speed pack). After using the shield pack for a long while, I find the outcome more favorable to me if I tend to duel in a more defensive style, meaning I rarely go for the attack unless provoked, and when I'm low on energy I am back pedaling to try to lure the enemy into a more vulnerable position.
 
Wendy said:
Now the problem with T:V is that because of the spawn invulnerability, it’s almost impossible to hold a base. In addition, the spawn layout is BETTER compared to T1/T2 and repairing is incomparably faster. As a result you will have to hold base MUCH longer or last MUCH longer destroying multiple things as compared to T1/T2 to compensate for T:V’s gameplay changes. This is where the shield pack comes in, and unfortunately fails.

I disagree with most of this. I was just playing some T1 earlier today, and getting killed as you spawn is not very fun. Correction, it isnt' fun at all. As far as I'm concerned some temporary spawn protection a necessary component.

Secondly, the philosophy I'm seeing here is that bases should be relatively easy to dominate. But let's review--they are BASES. Strongholds. Sure, you should be able to take down the enemy base for a bit, make maybe a diversion while someone grabs the flag, etc... But to hold it for very long? Nah uh.

As for the spawn layout being better---could you elaborate? If better spawning means not being in position to be mortar-or-otherwise-killed on spawn, then conversely they wear some of their grace period out when they move to defend. And if it's the other way around, then they sure need the protection. That, and I feel that bases in T:V can't hold a candle to even the T1 bases--now there was some grandeur.

My philosophy is that the base can get demolished, but permanent habitation by the enemy is not a good thing because it makes any potential team strength imbalance far worse for gameplay.
 
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