Rogue Thread #574-B (leveling builds for level 50-70)

B

Ben Reed

Veteran X
My Rogue is now level 50, so now I have to actually think about getting weapons that will sustain me until I can get to Outland.

I currently mostly have agi/stam greens and my weapons are (wait for it...) Phantom Blade MH/Thrash Blade OH. My current spec is Combat swords, oriented towards the old-school 20/31/0 build until I get closer to 60, when I plan to switch specs to something with a bit more killpower (currently leaning towards 21/40/0 Combat swords part deux).

My questions for you are as follows:

- First of all, where can I get some better freakin' weapons before Outland? (Besides the AH, I could afford a Krol Blade but my main still needs an epic flyer.) Swords or daggers doesn't really matter too much to me, I'll respec for whatever upgrades I can find.

- How do Mutilate/Hemo builds stack up versus Combat swords for leveling? Are they comparable in terms of performance, or does one completely blow the others out of the water?

- Are good swords still easier to find in most instances than good daggers in Outland?

- If leveling as Hemo turns out to be the best option, um...how the fuck do I play Hemo? Mutilate I can kinda wrap my brain around in terms of how it plays versus Combat, but when I try to envision what Hemo would be like I'm kind of at a loss.
 
Although I had pretty rad gear going into TBC, mutilate served me very well. Made some of the monotonous grinds fun by requiring me to pay attention and move around. Combat Swords / Seal Fate swords would be a good bet for pure plowing, but mutilate with good crit will go far as well.
 
Mutilate definitley isn't bad for grinding. You can pretty much non stop kill without taking any damage at all. It's not as fast at all as pure combat though.
 
I've been running a Mutilate build since I reached the level I could spec it, and it works fine. The only drawback to it is it's relatively expensive costs in keeping your weapons poisoned. But it's easier to play, and gives you excellent DPS. You still can spike with cold blood as well.

As far as weapons are concerned, don't worry about it, anything you spend money on will be obsolete as soon as you go to Outlands. Drops there are plentiful and much better (even the greens) than anything you can get pre-BC.

Save your money.
 
Ben just get to 58 and start doing the Outlands quests. The first series replaces probably 6-7 pieces of armor and also gives you at least one new sword and two new daggers.

I personally went combat fists and I fucking annihilated solo PVE. Mind you I had a GM fist MH to help, but there are some wicked lvl 60-62 fists that are on the AH for very little gold. My spec is 30/31 and while many people think that it is a waste, I can tell you with certainty that it is fantastic. Combat fists means minimum 25% crit and with CB and SF you get endless stunlocking options. Plus, with skills like Blade Flurry you can solo a lot of 2-3 man quests easily.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

There are a couple of points I'm slushing around, switching between a heavy OH and keeping DW spec up, or removing it for Imp S&D and a fast OH etc. Otherwise you are basically an invincible killing machine.
 
Joemomma5000 said:
Ben just get to 58 and start doing the Outlands quests. The first series replaces probably 6-7 pieces of armor and also gives you at least one new sword and two new daggers.
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I know all about how great Outlands is at 58, I just want a few pointers on how to GET to 58 quickly given that most of my guild's 50-something alts have outleveled my rogue, and I'd rather not deal with the special-ed kids that are still in Azeroth for my BRD and...shudder...Temple needs. It's especially aggravating cause you run out of quests so easily and you have to spend hours globetrotting just to milk every quest you can before 58.
 
Seriously a full run of ST rested is like 15 bars. It sucks but just run that, and I ground the Bogmen in the cave NE of Irontree Woods in Felwood. They have really low HP for their level, have no real special attack, are pretty much isolated, and respawn quickly. Also the Harpies in NW Feralas and the Yeti SE of the Twin Colossals (also in Feralas). This sadly is nothing really you haven't seen (or done) before, but is rather what I and a few other rogues seemed to have all done on the way up. Also, the Ogres in the Burning Steppes were the place to go to collect cloth and drops. I really just ran instances and ground resources for 60. Knowing you're going to make a boatload of money in BC, maybe it's worth a Krol for <100g. Truth be told, the best place for a rogue is grinding non-DoT mobs with no CC or run. Find them and kill them, use you CDs nonstop, and just kill as fast as possible. I flew thru the levels just doing that.

As for better gear pre-outlands, it simply does not exist. The Harpies dropped 2 Bloodrazors over a 4 hour period for me, but really the Thrash MH is fine up to 58.

Again, I found 49-54 to be a complete fucking torture festival, with the rest being pre-quests and attunement quests pretty much forcing 60 upon me. Not doing all that shit might make it take longer :(
 
speaking of leveling

I'm going SF/combat

should I get SF first and then go combat after or get blade flurry and then work up from there? I already put the obligatory 15 points in assasination
 
I'm disgusted with 45-55. I don't remember it being this bad on my rogue or hunter, but with the shaman it's fucking painful. Almost out of it though.
 
Gringo said:
I'm disgusted with 45-55. I don't remember it being this bad on my rogue or hunter, but with the shaman it's fucking painful. Almost out of it though.
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I simply grinded Sunken Temple runs once I reached the upper 40s lower 50s. Nice gear, and the runs were fairly straightforward with good XP returns.
 
Gandalf said:
I simply grinded Sunken Temple runs once I reached the upper 40s lower 50s. Nice gear, and the runs were fairly straightforward with good XP returns.
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Yeah it just took a while, especially if you wanted to get at the Prophet. And god help you if you wiped before you got to him, because if you don't the shield-generating trolls return.
 
Gandalf said:
I simply grinded Sunken Temple runs once I reached the upper 40s lower 50s. Nice gear, and the runs were fairly straightforward with good XP returns.
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I am, um...

Well, aside from my level 50 quest, no. No. No Temple. For the love of wine, women, and song, NO to Sunken Temple.

Every single fucking temple run where I haven't been pewpewed through by a high-level guildie, it has dragged on endlessly with a bunch of morons, bad group composition, and waaaaaaaaaaaaay too many nightmare holdups trying to summon people coming in to replace those who have to bail while ass deep in the dragon wing. And on top of that, I always, always, ALWAYS get lost, even when I remember to update Atlas. One of these days I'm going to go to BlizzCon just to sock whoever designed Temple in the mouth with a sledgehammer.

Of all the instances I have been forced to blow through in my WoW career, even faced with raid bosses that are beaten primarily by chugging consumables rather than pressing buttons, I STILL hate Temple most of all.

I plan to go there ONCE, and ONLY once, with a level 70 guildmate (I will pay them if necessary, I most CERTAINLY will not go with a pug) to kill Morphaz and finish my level 50 quest, and then I swear upon every gram of speed Jimmy Page ever shot that I will never, EVER go back in on that character. I would sooner spec Prot on my Warrior than go back to Temple for anything other than an easily pewpew-able quest.
 
Ben Reed said:
My Rogue is now level 50, so now I have to actually think about getting weapons that will sustain me until I can get to Outland.

I currently mostly have agi/stam greens and my weapons are (wait for it...) Phantom Blade MH/Thrash Blade OH. My current spec is Combat swords, oriented towards the old-school 20/31/0 build until I get closer to 60, when I plan to switch specs to something with a bit more killpower (currently leaning towards 21/40/0 Combat swords part deux).

My questions for you are as follows:

- First of all, where can I get some better freakin' weapons before Outland? (Besides the AH, I could afford a Krol Blade but my main still needs an epic flyer.) Swords or daggers doesn't really matter too much to me, I'll respec for whatever upgrades I can find.

- How do Mutilate/Hemo builds stack up versus Combat swords for leveling? Are they comparable in terms of performance, or does one completely blow the others out of the water?

- Are good swords still easier to find in most instances than good daggers in Outland?

- If leveling as Hemo turns out to be the best option, um...how the fuck do I play Hemo? Mutilate I can kinda wrap my brain around in terms of how it plays versus Combat, but when I try to envision what Hemo would be like I'm kind of at a loss.
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-- if you want to go mace or sword then go for hemo. i grew tired if combat as well. just get a decent mace or sword from the ah green if need be with decent top end damage. then a fast off hand to apply your poisons like a dagger.. or mace if youre lucky to find a fast mace. if you plan on rading get it out of your system now as you will not be able to go hemo in a serious raiding guild. go hemo with a fatty mace. how i worked hemo is chap shot for 3 CP. then i would hemo once run to the front and gouge. then you had a few seconds to allow some energy to regen. then kidney shot for 5 points and hit hemo a few times and finish with an evis.


-- i was a Mutilate hater for a long time. if you have stun watch and the basic idea of stunlocks Mutilate just smashes. far far more then hemo IMO and you get to have the bust damage of daggers for PVP encounters. combat daggers is nice also. it blows up your crit rate and match it with a mongoose pot a feral druid's buff or some agi food and matched with adrenalin rush its amazing as well. i'd go mutilate IMO though.

-- hemo plays on the amazing rate at which you gain combo points. I always think thoes dagger rogues that are clueless and smap hemo are so adorable and clueless. With hemo a lot.. of your damage comes from white damage. so you have to have a heavy hitting mace of sword. You also have to climb down the sub tree so a cold blood prep build is smart IMO.

with a hemo build keep the stuns going. take advantage of imp rupture and please graps the concept of eviscerate..... evis is pron to armor.. so when you build up 5 combo points and smash evis on a mob you are wasting your time. evis is pron to the targets armor. so if the mob is a caster let loose with an evis. if the mod is in plate and swinging a two hander. use smater tatics. rupture.. expose armor.. kiting using gouge and crip poisons and your evasion when you are in trouble.

when i went to level my horde rogue i was combat. All i knew was combat. so i went hemo. as combat i saw that with out a tank to suck up the dmg or a healer i was taking a lot of damage and using my food and bandaids. i went to hemo. it was so so burst damage but if i got anymore then 2 on me i didnt have blade flury to burn them down. i was mulit until i met a holy BE pally. all he wanted to do was heal so i went combat and it worked out nice. he would just spam heals on me and i would tear into them and he would assist me with stuns and tanking and it worked nice.
 
Ben Reed said:
I am, um...

Well, aside from my level 50 quest, no. No. No Temple. For the love of wine, women, and song, NO to Sunken Temple.

Every single fucking temple run where I haven't been pewpewed through by a high-level guildie, it has dragged on endlessly with a bunch of morons, bad group composition, and waaaaaaaaaaaaay too many nightmare holdups trying to summon people coming in to replace those who have to bail while ass deep in the dragon wing. And on top of that, I always, always, ALWAYS get lost, even when I remember to update Atlas. One of these days I'm going to go to BlizzCon just to sock whoever designed Temple in the mouth with a sledgehammer.

Of all the instances I have been forced to blow through in my WoW career, even faced with raid bosses that are beaten primarily by chugging consumables rather than pressing buttons, I STILL hate Temple most of all.

I plan to go there ONCE, and ONLY once, with a level 70 guildmate (I will pay them if necessary, I most CERTAINLY will not go with a pug) to kill Morphaz and finish my level 50 quest, and then I swear upon every gram of speed Jimmy Page ever shot that I will never, EVER go back in on that character. I would sooner spec Prot on my Warrior than go back to Temple for anything other than an easily pewpew-able quest.
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Guildy (51 undead war - arms) and I (53 troll war - proc) ran ST today for our lvl 50 warrior quest with a shaman, mage and a hunter :rofl:

That place is so annoying it hurts. But it gives great XP and some decent drops. Was hilarious trying to defeat Shade of Eranikus or w/e. Me tank, getting put to sleep. Guildy not really knowing how to tank, gets killed, I get out of sleep, tank, put to sleep, kills mage, wake up, tank, put to sleep, hunter gets killed, wake up, tank, put to sleep, shaman gets killed, wake up, die.

Tried three fucking times and I'm sure we could have done it if my guildy actually tanked him.

Oh well, looking forward to BFD once I get to 55, but I need to find some good mobs to grind at 53 (almost 54).
 
Ztir said:
try seal fate out, all those combo points are pretty bitchin
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^

Seal fate takes way more shit than it deserves for levelling/farming. I think it's because most combat rogues are so used to just mashing one button as often as possible until the target is dead. With a little energy/cp management, seal fate can kill still stuff just as fast as combat, and take a fraction of the damage at the same time.
 
Dyno said:
Seal fate takes way more shit than it deserves for levelling/farming. I think it's because most combat rogues are so used to just mashing one button as often as possible until the target is dead. With a little energy/cp management, seal fate can kill still stuff just as fast as combat, and take a fraction of the damage at the same time.
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I agree. I switched to Combat/Daggers from Seal Fate and I am going to be changing back immediately. All those combo points, increased damage from Kidney Shot, etc., make this a winner for me.

Edit: Im leaning towards something like this: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
 
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Drop murder for remorseless attacks. 2% damage is extremely negligible except in a raid, and even there it's not a huge deal. Remorseless attacks basically guarantees you a 5 point kidney shot right out of cheap shot when you're chain killing shit.

I like Imp Poisons over Master Poisoner because it helps increase the chance that you'll get a poison proc in the first few white hits after jumping a mob. 2% decreased chance to resist isn't equal to 2% increased chance to hit. Some guy mathed it out, but I don't remember the exact details. It was logical though.

Quick Recovery 2/2 is essential, especially if you're undead. It works on everything. Bangages, food, cannibalism. Between quick recovery and the stunlocking capability of seal fate, you will very rarely have to bandage. Decreased energy lost on failed finishers is very nice as well.

Find weakness is a great talent as well. A cold blood mutilate in a kidney shot can hit harder than a cold blood 5 pt eviscerate with enough AP, as well as generating 3 combo points.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
 
Dyno said:
Drop murder for remorseless attacks. 2% damage is extremely negligible except in a raid, and even there it's not a huge deal. Remorseless attacks basically guarantees you a 5 point kidney shot right out of cheap shot when you're chain killing shit.
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Good point. I didn't think of that.

Dyno said:
I like Imp Poisons over Master Poisoner because it helps increase the chance that you'll get a poison proc in the first few white hits after jumping a mob. 2% decreased chance to resist isn't equal to 2% increased chance to hit. Some guy mathed it out, but I don't remember the exact details. It was logical though.
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True, that does seem logical.

Dyno said:
Quick Recovery 2/2 is essential, especially if you're undead. It works on everything. Bangages, food, cannibalism. Between quick recovery and the stunlocking capability of seal fate, you will very rarely have to bandage. Decreased energy lost on failed finishers is very nice as well.
Click to expand...
No kidding? Huh, that's pretty huge as I'll get more mileage out of my Netherweave bandages now (not to mention food). Does this also impact heal pots?

Dyno said:
Find weakness is a great talent as well. A cold blood mutilate in a kidney shot can hit harder than a cold blood 5 pt eviscerate with enough AP, as well as generating 3 combo points.
Click to expand...
I've never used Find Weakness so thanks for the pointer.

:bigthumb:
 
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