need advice dealing with alcoholic?

get him drunk and turn him loose, make him find his way home from far away.. his spiritual evolution might do the trick
 
Nothing "works" as you know it. It's all just how you perceive your own perceptions, and how I interpret observing you perceiving, and none of it means anything and you can't know anything because none of you are open-minded to the possibility that The Matrix was really just a small cell in a BIGGER matrix, which was only a very small part of a gauge boson inside a water molecule sitting on a ham sandwich in some guy's refrigerator.

Cliffs: Knothing is knowable, and if you think your perception of the world is anything but false, you're a close-minded idiot.

[/dacthehork]
 
lol I came pretty close.

Nah for real I'm just having some tendonitis and can't sleep and am just giving you an electronic noogie. I recall questioning everything in similar fashion when I was ~19 or so. I don't mean that pejoratively, I'm not saying that "only kids think about stupid shit like this," I'm just saying that I can recall thinking in similar ways. It's just that I'm up late and feel like teasing someone, and you're the lucky winner. :D
 
lol I came pretty close.

Nah for real I'm just having some tendonitis and can't sleep and am just giving you an electronic noogie. I recall questioning everything in similar fashion when I was ~19 or so. I don't mean that pejoratively, I'm not saying that "only kids think about stupid shit like this," I'm just saying that I can recall thinking in similar ways. It's just that I'm up late and feel like teasing someone, and you're the lucky winner. :D

you misunderstand though

in not knowing comes knowing

It's not a dead end
 
For real I was very into Dada at one point. . .read a lot, and tried to get into the letting go of letting go thing. But I guess for me, perception is too Goddamn much fun. I like thinking about things, and figuring things out. I love to learn about some pacific island tribe on some island I've never heard of and how they do this or that. For me, Dada got to be so circuitous it stopped making sense, and didn't really calm me or . . do anything. It was just mental masturbation- for me. Obviously, a lot of others have gotten more out of it than I did.
 
For real I was very into Dada at one point. . .read a lot, and tried to get into the letting go of letting go thing. But I guess for me, perception is too Goddamn much fun. I like thinking about things, and figuring things out. I love to learn about some pacific island tribe on some island I've never heard of and how they do this or that. For me, Dada got to be so circuitous it stopped making sense, and didn't really calm me or . . do anything. It was just mental masturbation- for me. Obviously, a lot of others have gotten more out of it than I did.

heh

That's kind of besides the point, it doesn't really dictate anything.


The bearing of true character
Is simply to follow a true path
If the way is regarded as an entity
It is only elusive, only vague
So vague & so elusive
(Yet) at its center there is shape
So elusive & so vague
(Yet) at its center there are beings
So arcane & so shadowy
(Yet) at its center there is seed
This seed is profoundly real
At its center there is truth
From the present back into antiquity
Its meaning does not fade
Through this is seen a common ancestry
How do we know that the common ancestry’s shape is thus?
By This




Think of it like this.

You go to a river.

One person can see the river and imagine "cleaning" it, setting up a filter up the way to take some of the algea out. Then clearing some of the bushes, setting up tables for people to sit on, maybe some awning for shade. Possible a few sidewalks so people can walk. Maybe set up a toll booth to charge people who enter so they can maintain it.

Another person sees the river and likes it just the way it is, would never imagine clearing/changing it.

The simple thing is one is out of harmony and the other is in harmony.

One wishes to change everything to suit it's needs, to bring everything into it's vision of how things should be.

The other accepts things for what they are.

It is the beauty of the uncarved block vs the carved block
 
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Well, chase your tail as long as you need to. Personally, I grew very tired of it- you may never, who knows. As long as you're having fun and enjoying it, fuck me and anyone else that criticizes you.

Space cadet.
 
Well, chase your tail as long as you need to. Personally, I grew very tired of it- you may never, who knows. As long as you're having fun and enjoying it, fuck me and anyone else that criticizes you.

Space cadet.

hahahhahhahhahah

just remember good and evil are two sides of the same coin, good needs evil to contrast with.

people forget that, just compare it to beauty and ugliness, which is really better?
 
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No

To try and dictate the world as you would have it is weird
To think you are right is weird
To go with deliberate actions is weird

Have you not seen the folly of those that wish to control? To perfect? Instead of just accepting what is for what it is and not forcing anything?

It is a huge folly of humanity that it wishes to dictate when it should do nothing but be humble.
sounds like you really buy into it all that given this reply!
 
He's an alcoholic, what the fuck did you expect him to do? I'm totally serious when I say that the best thing you can do is refer him to someone else. You are selfish, impatient, egotistical, and stupid. He needs someone that is the exact opposite of those things. The saddest thing about this post is that it is not a flame.

I mean seriously- you took him to a meeting and are completely chagrinned that he got drunk afterwards? The absolute best thing you can do for him is to never speak to him again.

Vanster coming off greater than thou... gee am I shocked.

:shocked:
 
sounds like you really buy into it all that given this reply!

truth

Also the writer of the tao to ching was the same way

first explaining how it couldn't be understood, the more you talk about it etc

then writing a book on it that influenced a lot of eastern thought

The thing is it has to embrace being paradoxical. Aka even me arguing it is stupid/wrong but I still do it, I acknowledge the hypocritical part of my "position". AKA in arguing I know I am wrong, that is part of my argument.
 
my drinking problem has a drinking problem, but I still function, so it's a bit different for me (yeah, everyone says that)

but if your friend really is a raging alcoholic, then there really is nothing you can do for him till he either realises that his life is going down the cess-pit, or he does himself a major mischief and wakes up in a hospital bed and is forced to re-evaluate his options

I mean look at what happened to george best :ugh:

yeah he drank so much that he got kicked out of the beatles

what a dumbass!
 
i remember when i took chinese philosophy...it sucked

Chinese philosophy is philosophy written in the Chinese tradition of thought. Chinese philosophy has a history of several thousand years; its origins are often traced back to the Yi Jing (the Book of Changes), an ancient compendium of divination, which uses a system of 64 hexagrams to guide action. This system is attributed to King Wen of Zhou (1099–1050 BCE) and the work reflects the characteristic concepts and approaches of Chinese philosophy. The Book of Changes evolved in stages over the next eight centuries, but the first recorded reference is in 672 BCE.[1]

The Tao Te Ching (Dào dé jīng, in pinyin romanisation) of Lao Tzu (Lǎo zǐ) [2] and the Analects of Confucius (Kǒng fū zǐ; sometimes called Master Kong) [3] both appeared around the 6th century BCE, slightly ahead of early Buddhist philosophy in Northern India and slightly after pre-Socratic philosophy in Ancient Greece.

Confucianism represents the collected teachings of the Chinese sage Confucius, who lived from 551 to 479 BCE. His philosophy concerns the fields of ethics and politics, emphasizing personal and governmental morality, correctness of social relationships, justice, traditionalism, and sincerity. The Analects stress the importance of ritual, but also the importance of 'ren', which loosely translates as 'human-heartedness,[4] Confucianism, along with Legalism, is responsible for creating the world’s first meritocracy, which holds that one's status should be determined by ability instead of ancestry, wealth, or friendship.[3] Confucianism was and continues to be a major influence in Chinese culture, the state of China and the surrounding areas of Southeast Asia.

Throughout history, Chinese philosophy has been molded to fit the prevailing schools of thought and circumstances in China. The Chinese schools of philosophy, except during the Qin Dynasty, can be both critical and yet relatively tolerant of one another. Even when one particular school of thought is officially adopted by the ruling bureaucracy, as in the Han Dynasty, there may be no move to ban or censor other schools of thought. Despite and because of the debates and competition, they generally have cooperated and shared ideas, which they would usually incorporate with their own. For example, Neo-Confucianism was a revived version of old Confucian principles that appeared around the Song Dynasty, with Buddhist, Taoist, and Legalist features in the religion.
During the Industrial and Modern Ages, Chinese philosophy had also began to integrate concepts of Western philosophy, as steps toward modernization. By the time of the Xinhai Revolution in 1911, there were many calls, such as the May Fourth Movement, to completely abolish the old imperial institutions and practices of China. There have been attempts to incorporate democracy, republicanism, and industrialism into Chinese philosophy, notably by Sun Yat-Sen (Sūn yì xiān, in one Mandarin form of the name) at the beginning of the 20th century. Mao Zedong blended Marxism with Confucianism and Taoism and other communist thought to create what is sometimes known today as "Maoism" [5] . The government of the People's Republic of China encourage Socialism with Chinese characteristics. Although, officially, it does not encourage some of the philosophical practices of Imperial China, the influences of past are still deeply ingrained in the Chinese culture. As in Japan, philosophy in China has become a melting pot of ideas. It accepts new concepts, while attempting also to accord old beliefs their due.
Chinese philosophy has spread around the world in forms such as the New Confucianism and New Age ideas (see for example Chinese traditional medicine). Many in the academic community of the West remain skeptical, and only a few assimilate Chinese philosophy into their own research, whether scientific or philosophical. However, it still carries profound influence amongst the people of East Asia, and even Southeast Asia.

Contents [hide]
1 Brief history
1.1 Early beliefs
1.2 Hundred Schools of Thought
1.3 Qin and Han Dynasty
1.4 Xuanxue and Buddhism
1.5 From Neo-Confucianism to late Imperial Era
1.6 Modern era
2 Main Schools of Thought
2.1 Confucianism
2.1.1 Neo-Confucianism
2.1.2 New Confucianism
2.2 Taoism
2.3 Legalism
2.4 Buddhism
2.5 Mohism
2.6 Logicians
3 Great philosophical figures
4 Concepts within Chinese philosophy
5 See also
6 References
7 Further reading
8 External links
[edit]Brief history

[edit]Early beliefs
Early Shang Dynasty thought was based upon cyclicity. This notion stems from what the people of the Shang Dynasty could observe around them: day and night cycled, the seasons progressed again and again, and even the moon waxed and waned until it waxed again. Thus, this notion, which remained relevant throughout Chinese history, reflects the order of nature. In juxtaposition, it also marks a fundamental distinction from western philosophy, in which the dominant view of time is a linear progression. During the Shang, fate could be manipulated by great deities, commonly translated as Gods. Ancestor worship was present and universally recognized. There was also human and animal sacrifice.

When the Shang were overthrown by the Zhou, a new political, religious and philosophical concept was introduced called the "Mandate of Heaven". This mandate was said to be taken when rulers became unworthy of their position and provided a shrewd justification for Zhou rule. During this period, archaeological evidence points to an increase in literacy and a partial shift away from the faith placed in Shangdi (the Supreme Being in traditional Chinese religion), with ancestor worship becoming commonplace and a more worldly orientation coming to the fore.

[edit]Hundred Schools of Thought
Main article: Hundred Schools of Thought
In around 500 BCE, after the Zhou state weakened and China moved in to the Spring and Autumn Period, the classic period of Chinese philosophy began (it is an interesting fact that this date nearly coincides with the emergence of the first Greek philosophers). This is known as the Hundred Schools of Thought (諸子百家; zhūzǐ bǎijiā; "various philosophers hundred schools"). This period is considered the golden age of Chinese philosophy. Of the many schools founded at this time and during the subsequent Warring States Period, the four most influential ones were Confucianism, Daoism (often spelled "Taoism"), Mohism and Legalism.

[edit]Qin and Han Dynasty

The short founder Qin Dynasty, where Legalism was the official philosophy, quashed Mohist and Confucianist schools. Legalism remained influential until the emperors of the Han Dynasty adopted Daoism and later Confucianism as official doctrine. These latter two became the determining forces of Chinese thought until the introduction of Buddhism.
Confucianism was particularly strong during the Han Dynasty, whose greatest thinker was Dong Zhongshu, who integrated Confucianism with the thoughts of the Zhongshu School and the theory of the Five Elements. He also was a promoter of the New Text school, which considered Confucius as a divine figure and a spiritual ruler of China, who foresaw and started the evolution of the worldtowards the Universal Peace. In contrast, there was an Old Text school that advocated the use of Confucian works written in ancient language (from this comes the denomination Old Text) that were so much more reliable. In particular, they refuted the assumption of Confucius as a godlike figure and considered him as the greatest sage, but simply a human and mortal

[edit]Xuanxue and Buddhism
The III and IV centuries saw the rise of the Xuanxue (mysterious learning), also called Neo-Taoism. The most important philosophers of this movement were Wang Bi, Xiang Xiu and Guo Xiang. The main question of this school was whether Being came before Not-Being (in Chinese, ming and wuming). A peculiar feature of these Taoist thinkers, like the Seven Sages of the Bamboo Grove, was the concept of feng liu (lit. wind and flow), a sort of romantic spirit which encouraged following the natural and instinctive impulse.
Buddhism arrived in China around the I century AD, but it was not until the Northern and Southern, Sui and Tang Dynasties that it gained considerable influence and acknowledgement. At the beginning, it was considered a sort of Taoist sect, and there was even a theory about Laozi, founder of Taoism, who went to India and taught his philosophy to Buddha. Mahayana Buddhism was far more successful in China than its rival Hinayana, and both Indian schools and local Chinese sects arose from the V century. Two chiefly important monk philosophers were Sengzhao and Daosheng. But probably the most influential and original of these schools was the Chan sect, which had an even stronger impact in Japan as the Zen sect.
In the mid-Tang Buddhism reached its peak, and reportedly there were 4,600 monasteries, 40,000 hermitages and 260,500 monks and nuns. The power of the Buddhist clergy was so great and the wealth of the monasteries so impressive, that it instigated criticism from Confucian scholars, who considered Buddhism as a foreign religion. In 845 Emperor Wuzong ordered the Great Anti-Buddhist Persecution, confiscating the riches and returning monks and nuns to lay life. From then on, Buddhism lost much of its influence.

[edit]From Neo-Confucianism to late Imperial Era
Neo-Confucianism was a revived version of old Confucian principles that appeared around the Song Dynasty, with Buddhist, Taoist, and Legalist features. The first philosophers, such as Shao Yong, Zhou Dunyi and Chang Zai, were cosmologists and worked on the Yi Jing. The Cheng brothers, Cheng Yi and Cheng Hao, are considered the founders of the two main schools of thought of Neo-Confucianism: the School of Principle the first, the School of Mind the latter. The School of Principle gained supremacy during the Song Dynasty with the philosophical system elaborated by Zhu Xi, which became mainstream and officially adopted by the government for the Imperial examinations under the Yuan Dynasty. The School of Mind was developed by Lu Jiuyuan, Zhu Xi's main rival, but was soon forgotten. Only during the Ming Dynasty was the School of Mind revived by Wang Shouren, whose influence is equal to that of Zhu Xi. This school was particularly important in Japan.
During the Qing Dynasty many philosophers objected against Neo-Confucianism and there was a return to the Han Dynasty Confucianism, and also the reprise of the controversy between Old Text and New Text. In this period also started the penetration of Western culture, but most Chinese thought that the Westerners were maybe more advanced in technology and warfare, but that China had primacy in moral and intellectual fields.

[edit]Modern era
During the Industrial and Modern Ages, Chinese philosophy had also begun to integrate concepts of Western philosophy, as steps toward modernization. By the time of the Xinhai Revolution in 1911, there were many calls, such as the May Fourth Movement, to completely abolish the old imperial institutions and practices of China. There have been attempts to incorporate democracy, republicanism, and industrialism into Chinese philosophy, notably by Sun Yat-Sen (Sūn yì xiān, in one Mandarin form of the name) at the beginning of the 20th century. Mao Zedong (Máo zé dōng) added Marxism, Stalinism, and other communist thought.
When the Communist Party of China took over power, previous schools of thought, excepting notably Legalism, were denounced as backward, and later even purged during the Cultural Revolution. Their influence on Chinese thought, however, remains. The current government of the People's Republic of China is trying to encourage a form of market socialism.
Since the radical movement of the Cultural Revolution, the Chinese government has become much more tolerant with the practice of traditional beliefs. The 1978 Constitution of the People's Republic of China guarantees "freedom of religion" with a number of restrictions. Spiritual and philosophical institutions have been allowed to be established or re-established, as long they are not perceived to be a threat to the power of the CPC. (However, it should be noted that those organizations are heavily monitored by the state.) The influences of the past are still deeply ingrained in the Chinese culture. As in Japan, philosophy in China has become a melting pot of ideas. It accepts new concepts, while attempting also to accord old beliefs their due.
See also: Chinese nationalism, Maoism, Culture of the People's Republic of China

[edit]Main Schools of Thought

[edit]Confucianism


Kong Fuzi (Latin: Confucius)
Main article: Confucianism
Confucianism is a philosophical school developed from the teachings of the sage Confucius (Kongzi 孔子, 551 – 479 BCE), collected in the Analects of Confucius. It is a system of moral, social, political, and religious thought that has had tremendous influence on Chinese history, thought, and culture down to the 21st century. Some Westerners have considered it to have been the "state religion" of imperial China. Its influence also spread to Korea and Japan.
The major Confucian concepts include rén (humanity or humaneness), zhèngmíng (rectification of names; e.g. a ruler who rules unjustly is no longer a ruler and may be dethroned), zhōng (loyalty), xiào (filial piety), and lǐ (ritual). Confucius taught both positive and negative versions of the Golden Rule. The concepts Yin and Yang represent two opposing forces that are permanently in conflict with each other, leading to perpetual contradiction and change. The Confucian idea of "Rid of the two ends, take the middle" is a Chinese equivalent of Hegel's idea of "thesis, antithesis, and synthesis", which is a way of reconciling opposites, arriving at some middle ground combining the best of both.
[edit]Neo-Confucianism
Main article: Neo-Confucianism
Despite Confucianism losing popularity to Taoism and Buddhism, Neo-Confucianism combined those ideas into a more metaphysical framework. Its concepts include li (principle, akin to Plato's forms), qi (vital or material force), taiji (the Great Ultimate), and xin (mind).
[edit]New Confucianism
Main article: New Confucianism
New Confucianism is an intellectual movement of Confucianism that began in the early 20th century in Republican China, and revived in post-Mao era contemporary China. It is deeply influenced by, but not identical with, the Neo-Confucianism of the Song and Ming dynasties.

[edit]Taoism


Chinese glazed stoneware statue of a Taoist deity, from the Ming Dynasty, 16th century.
Main article: Taoism
See also: Xuanxue
Taoism (Daoism) is a philosophy and later also developed into a religion based on the texts the Tao Te Ching (Dào Dé Jīng; ascribed to Laozi) and the Zhuangzi (partly ascribed to Zhuangzi). The character Tao 道 (Dao) literally means "path" or "way". However in Daoism it refers more often to a meta-physical term that describes a force that encompasses the entire universe but which cannot be described nor felt. All major Chinese philosophical schools have investigated the correct Way to go about a moral life, but in Taoism it takes on the most abstract meanings, leading this school to be named after it. It advocated nonaction (wu wei), the strength of softness, spontaneity, and relativism. Although it serves as a rival to Confucianism, a school of active morality, this rivalry is compromised and given perspective by the idiom "practise Confucianism on the outside, Taoism on the inside." But its main motto is: "If one must rule, rule young" Most of Taoism's focus is on what is perceived to be the undeniable fact that human attempts to make the world better, actually make the world worse. Therefore it is better to strive for harmony.
[edit]Legalism
Main article: Legalism (Chinese philosophy)
Legalism is a pragmatic political philosophy synthesized by Shang Yang and Han Fei. With an essential principle like "when the epoch changed, the ways changed", it upholds the rule of law and is thus a theory of jurisprudence.
A ruler should govern his subjects by the following trinity:
Fa (法 fa3): law or principle.
Shu (術 shù): method, tactic, art, or statecraft.
Shi (勢 shì): legitimacy, power, or charisma.
Legalism was the chosen philosophy of the Qin Dynasty. It was blamed for creating a totalitarian society and thereby experienced decline. Its main motto is: "Set clear strict laws, or deliver harsh punishment". Both Shang Yang and Han Fei promoted the absolute adherence to the rule of law, regardless of the circumstances or the person. The ruler, alone, would possess the authority to dispense with rewards and punishments. Ministers were only to be rewarded if their words matched the results of their proposals, and punished if it did not; regardless if the results were worse or better than the claims. Legalism, in accordance with Han Fei's interpretation, could be considered to be ultranationalistic, and encouraged the state to be a militaristic autarky. The philosophy was highly progressive, and extremely critical of the Confucian and Mohist schools. This would be used to justify Li Si's large scale persecutions of the other schools of thought during the Qin dynasty, and the invariable denunciation by Confucian scholars from the Han dynasty and onwards.

[edit]Buddhism


The Sakyamuni Buddha, by artist Zhang Shengwen, 1173-1176 CE, Song Dynasty.
Main article: Buddhism in China
Buddhism is a religion, a practical philosophy, and arguably a psychology, focusing on the teachings of Gautama Buddha, who lived on the Indian subcontinent most likely from the mid-6th to the early 5th century BCE. When used in a generic sense, a Buddha is generally considered to be someone who discovers the true nature of reality.
Although Buddhism originated in India, it has had the most lasting impact on China. Since Chinese traditional thought focuses more on ethics rather than metaphysics, it has developed several schools distinct from the originating Indian schools. The most prominent examples with philosophical merit are Sanlun, Tiantai, Huayan, and Chán (a.k.a. Zen). They investigate consciousness, levels of truth, whether reality is ultimately empty, and how enlightenment is to be achieved. Buddhism has a spiritual aspect that compliments the action of Neo-Confucianism, with prominent Neo-Confucians advocating certain forms of meditation.
[edit]Mohism
Main article: Mohism
Mohism (Moism), founded by Mozi (墨子), promotes universal love with the aim of mutual benefit. Everyone must love each other equally and impartially to avoid conflict and war. Mozi was strongly against Confucian ritual, instead emphasizing pragmatic survival through farming, fortification, and statecraft. Tradition is inconsistent, and human beings need an extra-traditional guide to identify which traditions are acceptable. The moral guide must then promote and encourage social behaviors that maximize general benefit. As motivation for his theory, Mozi brought in the Will of Heaven, but rather than being religious his philosophy parallels utilitarianism.

[edit]Logicians
Main article: School of Names
The logicians (School of Names) were concerned with logic, paradoxes, names and actuality (similar to Confucian rectification of names). The logician Hui Shi was a friendly rival to Zhuangzi, arguing against Taoism in a light-hearted and humorous manner. Another logician, Gongsun Long, told the famous When a White Horse is Not a Horse dialogue. This school did not thrive because the Chinese regarded sophistry and dialectic as impractical.
[edit]Great philosophical figures

Main article: List of Chinese philosophers
Confucius, seen as the Great Master but sometimes ridiculed by Taoists.
Mencius, Confucius' follower having idealist inspiration
Xun Zi, another Confucius' follower, closer to realism, teacher of Han Fei and Li Si
Zhu Xi, founder of Neo-Confucianism
Wang Yangming, most influential proponent of xinxue or "state of mind."
Lao Zi, the chief of Taoist school.
Zhuangzi, said to be the author of the Zhuangzi.
Liezi, said to be the author of the Liezi.
Mozi, the founder of Mohist school.
Shang Yang, Legalist founder and pivotal Qin reformer
Han Fei, one of the most notable theoreticians of Legalism
Li Si, major proponent and practitioner of Legalism
Huineng, The 6th buddhist patriarch of the Chan (Zen) School in China, he established the concept of "no mind".
[edit]Concepts within Chinese philosophy


This section does not cite any references or sources.
Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (June 2010)
Although the individual philosophical schools differ considerably, they nevertheless share a common vocabulary and set of concerns.
Among the terms commonly found in Chinese philosophy are:
Tao (the Way, or one's doctrine)
De (virtue, power)
Li (principle)
Qi (vital energy or material force)
The Taiji (Great Heavenly Axis) forms a unity of the two complimentary polarities, Yin and Yang. The word Yin originally referred to a hillside facing away from the sun. Philosophically, it stands the dark, passive, feminine principle; whereas Yang (the hillside facing the sun) stands for the bright, active, masculine principle. Yin and Yang are not antagonistic, they alternate in inverse proportion to one another—like the rise and fall of a wave.
Among the commonalities of Chinese philosophies are:
The tendency not to view man as separate from nature.
Questions about the nature and existence of a monotheistic deity, which have profoundly influenced Western philosophy, have not been important in Chinese philosophies or a source of great conflict in Chinese traditional religion.
The belief that the purpose of philosophy is primarily to serve as an ethical and practical guide.
The political focus: most scholars of the Hundred Schools were trying to convince the ruler to behave in the way they defended.
 
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