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We live in the Pacific Northwest. We know all about good beer. We have more breweries per person than anyplace in the world except Bavaria. Beer, Rain, Coffee. The three cornerstones of life in the Pacific Northwest.Beren said:Bleh... call up the aussie, and he will bring you americans some real beer.
While I think it unlikely, I'd be more than happy to be proven wrongBeren said:
Got Haggis?
Veteran XX
Why not have the next Tribes Council at UVALAN5? Invite select people to the council, just as you normally would, and then have a time set aside for everyone invited to gather around and discuss Tribes (perhaps even moderated by a , uh, moderater to keep things on topic)....everyone would get to witness it and hear what was said, but not necessarly contribute.
or still have it at UVALAN5, but have it in private, then after it is over, hold a short question/answer session with the general LAN attendee's and dicuss what was said, etc.
or still have it at UVALAN5, but have it in private, then after it is over, hold a short question/answer session with the general LAN attendee's and dicuss what was said, etc.
hello I think I should be invited because im the best tribes 1 player ever.. (really)
while i think the tribes council is/was a good idea and certainly one much more far-reaching than any other game maker i can think of, it still somehow doesn't sit right with me.
it's too small. too few voices.
while i think there should be a tribes council, i don't think it should be the only first hand, first look, first feedback introduction to the tribes products.
the solution to this would be to have a few of the developers and production staff (like an E3 crew) travel to the major tribes lans (UVALAN and Tribescon) and setup a booth just like at E3 where you can show the products, have people play a little, and get direct feedback from a variety of people, not just a few handpicked very select individuals. this also shouldn't be viewed as time away from development for those developers in attendance, but rather as part of the development process.
i could see the rewards as tremendous. i'm certainly not suggesting you make a horse by commitee, but at the same time, you'd create a great amount of good will among the community and gain as much information as you could get from the council but undoubtedly with a broader perspective.
a poll representing only a few participants, regardless of expertise, doesn't indicate much (just look at congress), but a poll of greater breadth could lead to some pretty meaningful conclusions.
i know it's a pretty outlandish idea to include this as part of the development process but i honestly believe people (players) have less concern about the added development time this might cause than being delivered in the end a product which is much more satisfying and would undoubtedly have a longer product life.
i know there are 10,000 other concerns to consider when making and marketing a game and i don't feel i've explained my point very well so i'll break it off here and let the flames begin.
it's too small. too few voices.
while i think there should be a tribes council, i don't think it should be the only first hand, first look, first feedback introduction to the tribes products.
the solution to this would be to have a few of the developers and production staff (like an E3 crew) travel to the major tribes lans (UVALAN and Tribescon) and setup a booth just like at E3 where you can show the products, have people play a little, and get direct feedback from a variety of people, not just a few handpicked very select individuals. this also shouldn't be viewed as time away from development for those developers in attendance, but rather as part of the development process.
i could see the rewards as tremendous. i'm certainly not suggesting you make a horse by commitee, but at the same time, you'd create a great amount of good will among the community and gain as much information as you could get from the council but undoubtedly with a broader perspective.
a poll representing only a few participants, regardless of expertise, doesn't indicate much (just look at congress), but a poll of greater breadth could lead to some pretty meaningful conclusions.
i know it's a pretty outlandish idea to include this as part of the development process but i honestly believe people (players) have less concern about the added development time this might cause than being delivered in the end a product which is much more satisfying and would undoubtedly have a longer product life.
i know there are 10,000 other concerns to consider when making and marketing a game and i don't feel i've explained my point very well so i'll break it off here and let the flames begin.
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while i'm off the deep end here in my utopian delusions i'd also really like to see just what would happen if, just for once, a game could be given the budget and rescources of an average hollywood feature film.
the electronic entertainment industry, in my humble opinion, is in a terrible rut, and the only way out (as an industry) is to take some very real risks with some very real consequences, possibly good, possibly bad.
the electronic entertainment industry, in my humble opinion, is in a terrible rut, and the only way out (as an industry) is to take some very real risks with some very real consequences, possibly good, possibly bad.
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Sir Lucius
Veteran XX
I disagree with fid -- here's why.
Lots of voices are good, but then it becomes hard to sort them out amongst everyone. While I know I myself will never end up at a tribes council, I can make myself vocal in the community to influence those that do go. I think it's important that the people going don't have biases towards their OWN vissions though. In the previous council's case, I would like to think of Colosus as my representation. Why? B/c I post on his forum and I am part of his comunity; and I'm sure he must have -- at least once -- read one of my opinions. I repsect Colosus and I would think he respects me as well so when he read that opinion of mine I would think he'd take it into consideration.
A hard case is that a lot of people have a lot of differnt things to say -- what we really have to do is to find the people who represent us best and let them speak for us. When you break it down like this you get a more focused and organized plan. You can actually make a list. You can't do that with 400 people.
Lots of voices are good, but then it becomes hard to sort them out amongst everyone. While I know I myself will never end up at a tribes council, I can make myself vocal in the community to influence those that do go. I think it's important that the people going don't have biases towards their OWN vissions though. In the previous council's case, I would like to think of Colosus as my representation. Why? B/c I post on his forum and I am part of his comunity; and I'm sure he must have -- at least once -- read one of my opinions. I repsect Colosus and I would think he respects me as well so when he read that opinion of mine I would think he'd take it into consideration.
A hard case is that a lot of people have a lot of differnt things to say -- what we really have to do is to find the people who represent us best and let them speak for us. When you break it down like this you get a more focused and organized plan. You can actually make a list. You can't do that with 400 people.
i certainly didn't mean to give the impression that these people who gave feedback at lans would have a direct 1:1 influence on the game (in any critical manner) and have these ideas compiled into a list of to-do's but rather give the developers the chance to make their own list of the success' and failures based on recurring comments and themes presented by the event as a whole. a what's weak, what's strong, and what needs elaboration sort of thing.
a case in point where a meeting with the 'public' did have a direct influence on the game although very minor was when i suggested a reticle mounted ammo count at e3 (2000 i believe, the year following the rv) to mark f. and a few other staff in a group. there was a discussion about it at the time amongst them and i played my case and what do you know, it ended up in the game. while i can't claim the ammo count thing as an original idea since i used a scripted one for T1, i happened to be talking to the right people at the right time and brought it up. this apparently wasn't an idea they were familiar with but that i felt was very useful. i also lobbied for an ingame clock which dave g. shot down on the spot but it's this type of thing which i believe evolves from direct contact, and in the end, to the benefit of the product.
a case in point where a meeting with the 'public' did have a direct influence on the game although very minor was when i suggested a reticle mounted ammo count at e3 (2000 i believe, the year following the rv) to mark f. and a few other staff in a group. there was a discussion about it at the time amongst them and i played my case and what do you know, it ended up in the game. while i can't claim the ammo count thing as an original idea since i used a scripted one for T1, i happened to be talking to the right people at the right time and brought it up. this apparently wasn't an idea they were familiar with but that i felt was very useful. i also lobbied for an ingame clock which dave g. shot down on the spot but it's this type of thing which i believe evolves from direct contact, and in the end, to the benefit of the product.
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Got Haggis?
Veteran XX
right, so have it at the lan, with only those invited to the council actually being able to carry the conversation....and at the end, have a short Q/A period with the rest of the lan attendees.
I thought we were talking about Menzo here!
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