[calling Kurayami] Chechnya

M

mr_luc

Veteran X
KURA THREAD ALERT. No attempts made at TW-normalization beyond this sentence.

I am interested in knowing all that I can find online (and offline, if suitably interesting material is available on amazon for cheap) about the history and nature of Russia's war with insurgents in Chechnya.

Is it safe to say at this point that Russia has basically won their unwinnable insurgent clusterfuck nightmare, while America is sort of going the other way with that?

I'd like to read up on that because of the implications for gaining insight into what is and isn't possible in fighting modern insurgencies, or at least, what the tradeoffs in lives and brutality would be. I realized that there's a big hole in my understanding of current events, as I know next to nothing about the Chechnya situation, and I remember you posting pictures of hilariously shelled towns that were wiped totally off the map by Russian bombardment.

I already read up on the US' misadventures in the Phillipines ... yeah, that one doesn't seem to offer any insight for combating modern-day insurgencies.
 
moonpie said:
link?
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Start at wikipedia and branch out from the bibliography links, which are usually worthless on wikipedia (which is why I start googling on terms and subjects contained in the wiki biblio links to get an idea of respectable sources), but in the case of the Phillipines invasion and the US winning the insurgency there, well, the wiki does a pretty decent job of painting the picture of why that one was relatively trouble-free (locals mostly had only spears; we still had to use confinement/concentration camps -- just for starters, but those are a couple of the reasons why it's less applicable. It followed more the pattern of old-timey colonial conquest, where eventually the people accept their new overlords, with a few determined die-hard generals being tracked down one by one).
 
the chechans don't like the russians
russians fuck them up hardcore
they still don't give up
russia decides to recognize them as sovriegn, but with a leader they chose
other states get pissed
civil unrest throughout blah blah blah

spelling aside thats what i remember from meh classes in college

interested to see if im right when he gets in here
 
is it me glock 40? pump pump pump pump nope
is it me 45? pump pump pump pump nope
is it me 357? pump pump pump pump nope
me m16 tapin' off the murder scene
 
Is it safe to say at this point that Russia has basically won their unwinnable insurgent clusterfuck nightmare, while America is sort of going the other way with that?
Click to expand...

Yes, there is away and it's called "ethnic cleansing". US deserves its share of critique in Iraq, however, Russian approach in Chechnya is way more brutal.
Mistreatment, rape, murder, beatings, imprisonment are the norm for Russian security forces in Chechnya. These events, even uncovered, don't present a PR nightmare as it is for US in Iraq.
 
mr_luc said:
KURA THREAD ALERT. No attempts made at TW-normalization beyond this sentence.

I am interested in knowing all that I can find online (and offline, if suitably interesting material is available on amazon for cheap) about the history and nature of Russia's war with insurgents in Chechnya.
Click to expand...
Never read a book on the subject.

FAS used to have a pretty big section about it, but I can't find it in their new layout (they may or may not have taken it down. There seems to be a lot of missing content vs. their old site.) Globalsecurity's section has a lot of the same content, though.
Chechnya

The only problem with GS is that the site has so much content that a lot of it gets out of date. Some of the links may be dead.

Is it safe to say at this point that Russia has basically won their unwinnable insurgent clusterfuck nightmare, while America is sort of going the other way with that?
Click to expand...
To my knowledge, the second Chechyn war is still officially ongoing. I have not followed it closely for the past couple of years, but as far as I am aware there is still fighting.

What I've heard from Russian sources is that the Russian military has been greatly constrained the second time around because they've been trying to conduct the war in a more "PC" manner. (ie, they would contact the local government before sending in spetsnaz to raid a suspected insurgent stronghold. Local officials would then warn the insurgents.) This has supposedly greatly limited their effectiveness within Chechnya.

I'd like to read up on that because of the implications for gaining insight into what is and isn't possible in fighting modern insurgencies, or at least, what the tradeoffs in lives and brutality would be.
Click to expand...
Well, the Russians were very effective in putting down the original uprising/coup in the '90s.

They just had to do this:

classic8jj-.jpg



The second time around they've employed "nicer" tactics and, as far as I was last aware, were still having problems both in Chechnya and with terrorists (I can recall at least 2 big Russian terrorism stories offhand from the last couple of years.) The conflict is as much about religion as it is about independence. It's also rooted in several centuries of mutual hatred between the belligerents.


As far as I'm concerned, there are only three ways to defeat an insurgency.

1: Never let one begin.

2: Turn the population against the insurgency to the extreme, thus robbing it of any sort of support (very difficult to do.)

3: Destroy its base of support (what the Russians opted to do in Grozny.) Equipment, shelter, communications, logistics, allies, etc. This is the easiest thing for any military to do, but it produces pretty unacceptible levels of casualties as well as complete economic devastation.
 
i think it would be interesting to meet kura, not to punch him in the face like most of you would say you want to do, but just to talk to him face to face to see if he is full of shit
 
mangaboy said:
Mistreatment, rape, murder, beatings, imprisonment are the norm for Russian security forces in Chechnya.
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And the Chechyns were much better? How many 18-year-old Russian conscripts have been tortured and killed? I've stayed away from "chechclear," but I've read more than a couple accounts that have turned my stomach.

Both sides in the conflict have an ugly face and you really can't lay the blame for that soley at the feet of Russia.
 
claudius, how do you think of such stupid fucking shit to post? ive never once seen you post anything worth reading. go fuck ur mother you faggot.
 
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