ATTN: WEBSITE DEVELOPERS (I have a job offer for you)

Dumpy Dooby said:
I am starting to believe LostAngel and cogz, though. Perhaps we will pay a premium and sub this out to a company. Jesus, though ... that's so expensive for such a small project. :\

Isn't this supposed to basically run a whole repair aspect of the company when it's done? Isn't it supposed to help you build your client base, and better serve your customers, and ultimately cause the business to grow?

If those are the goals, don't nickel and dime it. Do it right, because the success of the whole repair business could hinge on whether or not this thing sucks.
 
jsut said:
Come on LA, you know this site was born to run on an MS Access backend. ;)

You can live without stored procedures (at least maintainability wise) if you don't copy and paste SQL throughout your code. Unfourtunately most PHP programmers seem to have almost no clue about how to modularize code. (that problem isn't at all restricted to PHP dev's though)

mySQL does support foreign keys and fun bullshit like that, but you have to use InnoDB tables, not myISAM tables. (which i'm sure you know)

Yes it supports it but doesn't reinforce it. It will only throw an error which most php dev's will catch and ignore while the data is then inserted anyway. It's like transactions in mySQL. You can put the code there, and it will throw and error, but it'll insert the data anyway. It's just a facade for their webpage and for MySQL evangelists to post and use in arguments. But anyone who's actually tried to build something commercial grade out of it knows that you have to build that functionality into the code base of PHP rather than having your DB do it.

It's not necessarily a bad thing, just something that most DBA's will cringe at and most PHP programmers take as a normality. I personally would rather off hand those procedures on the DB, but that's because I started out as a DBA/C++ programmer rather than a Web Dev/Script kitty.
 
Monkey_b said:
lol phantred :lol:

It's funny until you find out that its fucking true. These same fucking pansies bitching about how its not worth their time will show up in the tw 'where do you work thread' and bitch about how IT sucks and they work for their uncle now.

And I was completely serious in the post scripts, I needed a single static page done, already had the graphics and everything, I didn't even want any god damn hyperlinks, just fucking put my images together, and make it webworthy. 3 pages of insults later I got 20 offers(via pm of course) for between 200 and $1500 with links to sample work, 2 or 3 of them were linking to the same website. My girlfriend did it in 15 minutes in photoshop that night.

Moral? Don't try to give some pissant college kid $50 bucks for 15 minutes of work, he'll insult you in front of everyone and piss on you in private.
 
Oh and just because Access sucks, at least it supports transactions. Just a little FYI, I'd be more inclined to build a shopping cart engine in Access than MySQL based on the fact that Access maintains data integrity more so than MySQL. Not exactly very funny, but a very sad truth.
 
Phantred said:
It's funny until you find out that its fucking true. These same fucking pansies bitching about how its not worth their time will show up in the tw 'where do you work thread' and bitch about how IT sucks and they work for their uncle now.

And I was completely serious in the post scripts, I needed a single static page done, already had the graphics and everything, I didn't even want any god damn hyperlinks, just fucking put my images together, and make it webworthy. 3 pages of insults later I got 20 offers(via pm of course) for between 200 and $1500 with links to sample work, 2 or 3 of them were linking to the same website. My girlfriend did it in 15 minutes in photoshop that night.

Moral? Don't try to give some pissant college kid $50 bucks for 15 minutes of work, he'll insult you in front of everyone and piss on you in private.

Just because someone shit in your Cherrios and you ate it doesn't mean everyone else doesn't know how to pick around the shit to find the healthy wheet O's of goodness.

I would expect a LOT more from a vet4...
 
LostAngel said:
Just because someone shit in your Cherrios and you ate it doesn't mean everyone else doesn't know how to pick around the shit to find the healthy wheet O's of goodness.

I would expect a LOT more from a vet4...

I'm sorry if my generalization of a tw 'web guy' offends you, feel free to list your degrees, hell throw out a few major american corporations too, you'll feel prestigious and then I won't have to feel bad for hurting your feelings.
 
Phantred said:
I'm sorry if my generalization of a tw 'web guy' offends you, feel free to list your degrees, hell throw out a few major american corporations too, you'll feel prestigious and then I won't have to feel bad for hurting your feelings.

Not sure if you're being sarcastic or just didn't actually read the thread before posting.
 
LostAngel said:
Not sure if you're being sarcastic or just didn't actually read the thread before posting.


I was being sarcastic, I didn't realize it was you that had said that. :sunny:

In summary, I was colorfully expressing my opinion on MOST of the posters who comment on web work. I am not above the idea that some talented IT people post on internet forums.
 
jsut said:
Isn't this supposed to basically run a whole repair aspect of the company when it's done? Isn't it supposed to help you build your client base, and better serve your customers, and ultimately cause the business to grow?

If those are the goals, don't nickel and dime it. Do it right, because the success of the whole repair business could hinge on whether or not this thing sucks.
exactly. it may seem expensive as an upfront cost, but the reality of it is that if this is a system your techs are going to rely on and customers are going to rely on it needs to be up 24x7, reliable, secure, and maintain data integrity. it also should be able to scale fairly easily and be easily expandable/customizable...hopefully your business grows which means more traffic and more data, and that also means more service offerings and web features, which means customization (which also drives scale).

look at it this way: you spend $2500 to get this done and it works, but it keeps breaking and is unreliable. this drives away business by making you seem crappy, decreases the quality of your customer service. basically, it costs you money. people will tear their hair out trying to figure out what the problem is and they'll decide it's because you're surfing the net during business hours, you were 15 minutes late, or whatever, and never get the point the the reason the business is failing is because the business systems you're relying on just plain suck...which adds time to jobs, impacts customer experience, and leaves people idle enough to surf porn on company time. management will think about it for a while, decide to hire another tech or spend money on advertizing, or whatever, and probably waste $10,000 to $20,000 trying to get things back on track and it will all still be broken.

you could also spend $12,000 to $20,000 on something like this and end up with something that has most of the features you need and works more or less as expected, and is reliable and secure. if it gains you good customer support points and makes people happy, getting them to come back and bring in friends it's probably paid for itself.

but that's the hidden cost of IT. companies never want to pay for IT because it never makes money. it's a cost center with no easily noticeable returns. they scream a lot when email or web goes down, complain about lost work and seem to be able to put a price on that, but the cost of IT is not always appreciated. it's like an insurance policy; you only thing, "thank god I have that policy!" after your car is totalled.

my advice would be that if you can complete the back end yourself, do it yourself. it's cheaper and as long as you're in house you can maintain it and expand it. you know the code so in theory it should be cheaper and easier to use you than any outside contractor...at least until your time becomes very expensice. I'd also advise separating out the backend/dynamic parts of the site from the site design and art work. if you're not a good designer farm out the art and site design to someone else. ask for flat HTML files and cut them into templates yourself.
 
Phantred said:
I was being sarcastic, I didn't realize it was you that had said that. :sunny:

In summary, I was colorfully expressing my opinion on MOST of the posters who comment on web work. I am not above the idea that some talented IT people post on internet forums.

I'm not IT. Nor is anyone who has posted thus far IT afaik. A true IT person doesn't have anything to do with web applications, only with maintaining their hardware and setting up/installing the software to serve it.

Not to be a dick or anything, but 90% of the people who talk shit on this forum can back it up. There are some of us who talk shit in threads where we have no place but usually most of us know each other well enough to know when one of us is pulling an Akuma and we call each other on it.

You on the other hand seem to have not picked up on this fact and seem to have taken everything personally, carrying it into threads where the other 90% are. Might I be the first to suggest that TW may in fact not be for you. Or maybe you only attract the other 10%. Either way you've gotten the end of the stick we use to poke the cow patty with and while I feel for you, I don't really feel the need to put up with you.
 
Dumpy Dooby said:
:lol:

The local guys in my area get $20/hr


That is just fucking sad. I went to Univ. for CompSci and I now make way more than that doing something completely unrelated and 5000x easier. If I got paid $20/hr to do that boring ass shit I would kill myself.

I mean shit, off the top of my head I can think of at least 5 friends of mine that make around that much money to do shit that's not even close to being in the same league of difficulty as coding the backend of a website.
 
LostAngel said:
I'm not IT. Nor is anyone who has posted thus far IT afaik. A true IT person doesn't have anything to do with web applications, only with maintaining their hardware and setting up/installing the software to serve it.
I'm IT...but I'm also IT in a largeish company. we maintain a full development team to handle our internal/external web applications.
 
Phantred is right to an extent. There are lots of shitty web developers on TW that talk alot, yet when it's time to prove it, their works are the crappiest things ever.
 
Dumpy Dooby said:
I think you missed the part where I said I know how to do everything that I asked. It stands to reason that your post was completely pointless.

And for the record, I alreayd have the SQL database setup, along with the fundamentals of the site code itself. If the chosen person works with what I have, then I'm expecting this to take about 2 weeks.

Again, you're a moron. I didn't come here for your advice. I've been in the web-development business longer than most of the people here (I started my first Geoshities-esque site in 1996). Although, I'm rusty when it comes to server-side scripting, most things only take me a day or so to perfect.

That said, don't give me any advice. I don't need any. Thx.

Now that you've proved to be a complete asshole/nerd tool, OF COURSE I WANT TO WORK FOR YOU!
 
Phantred said:
It's funny until you find out that its fucking true. These same fucking pansies bitching about how its not worth their time will show up in the tw 'where do you work thread' and bitch about how IT sucks and they work for their uncle now.

And I was completely serious in the post scripts, I needed a single static page done, already had the graphics and everything, I didn't even want any god damn hyperlinks, just fucking put my images together, and make it webworthy. 3 pages of insults later I got 20 offers(via pm of course) for between 200 and $1500 with links to sample work, 2 or 3 of them were linking to the same website. My girlfriend did it in 15 minutes in photoshop that night.

Moral? Don't try to give some pissant college kid $50 bucks for 15 minutes of work, he'll insult you in front of everyone and piss on you in private.
I had a TW devleoper make a flash for me. Paid 'em $800 for some simple ass flash component. At one point he got upset about something and told me off. Well, my client needed some fixes to the component, but the developer didn't want to work with me anymore. I asked for the .fla's so I could hire someone else to make the fixes but he refused to hand them over. I brought up the fact that he had signed a contract saying that all work done for me, was my property, including originals, but he gave me some bullshit about his code being 'proprietary'.

My client needed the fixes immediately, and I couldn't afford the time to go through a legal process to obtain my .fla, nor would I bother for an $800 component. I was forced to hire another TW developer to do it again from scratch. This dev charged me $400, turned the work around in 7 days, and was a pleasure to work with.

Typically, TribalWar is a bad place to find contractors, but there are exceptions.
 
To do that project I'd charge around $80/hr and if it's in php/mySQL it wouldn't be worth my time because it would take 10x longer to make it secure and stable than the time frame you've given.

rolleyes-giant.gif
 
Monkey_b said:
I had a TW devleoper make a flash for me. Paid 'em $800 for some simple ass flash component. At one point he got upset about something and told me off. Well, my client needed some fixes to the component, but the developer didn't want to work with me anymore. I asked for the .fla's so I could hire someone else to make the fixes but he refused to hand them over. I brought up the fact that he had signed a contract saying that all work done for me, was my property, including originals, but he gave me some bullshit about his code being 'proprietary'.

My client needed the fixes immediately, and I couldn't afford the time to go through a legal process to obtain my .fla, nor would I bother for an $800 component. I was forced to hire another TW developer to do it again from scratch. This dev charged me $400, turned the work around in 7 days, and was a pleasure to work with.

Typically, TribalWar is a bad place to find contractors, but there are exceptions.
that's why you don't pay until you get the source files if the source files are a part of the contract.
 
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