[Arizona] Immigration

Automatic Jack said:
If you think that you should be required to carry your birth certificate or go to jail in return for the possibility of being saved from being murdered by Mexicans, I guess that's a fair position, but it sounds like a false economy to me.
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why do you have to carry a birth certificate?
isn't a state issued ID enough?
 
Detox.enD said:
why do you have to carry a birth certificate?
isn't a state issued ID enough?
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A state issued id ALREADY isn't enough in Arizona.

A Latino truck driver outside Phoenix was taken into custody by law enforcement at a weigh station. He pulled in to have the truck looked at, was apparently approached by Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents and asked for ID. He showed them his commercial driver’s license. They asked him for more ID. He told them his social security number. They cuffed him took him to the central office in Phoenix and called his wife to bring his social security card and birth certificate. The man is identifying himself to media only as “Abdon” and he is an American citizen born in the USA.
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The new birthers: Arizona truck driver arrested, forced to show birth certificate Iowa Independent

Those were ICE guys. Now every local cop can do it, is required to do it. And you guys are too stupid to see the problem. I mean that is pretty fucking stupid.
 
THIS WAS DONE BY ICE. This had NOTHING to do with AZ law enforcement. This was Federal, and only supports the reasons why AZ needs to handle this. If this was done by AZ, then we would have the power to fire the officer involved in this.
 
It has nothing to do with it except everything to do with it, since now ICE's job is put on local police.

If your goal is to fire police, and consequently lose millions in civil suits like the one that will follow from the story I posted, at the same time further intimidating anyone who fears harassment based on race, which is part of Arizona culture and history and consent decrees, I agree this is an efficient way to do it.
 
All you need is a valid drivers licence or state issued ID.


Stop thinking with your goddamn bleeding hearts and use your brains. Police officers are not going to go door to door looking for illegals like the SS looking for jews. Damn near half the officers here are mexican for christ sake.
 
Hint to AJ - as I said before, Maricopa cops have been doing this enforcement for YEARS. YEARS. English, do you speak it? Where was your outrage a year ago? Want to trot out MORE anecdotal evidence that the entire system needs to be thrown out?

Holy fuck.
 
Detox.enD said:
so his answer to my question about State Issued ID was to point me to what the federal ICE does?

ok...
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If you reasonably suspect someone is in the country illegally, isn't it reasonable to expect they faked a state ID?

I am done arguing something so obvious, you can ignore the fact you are wrong when the object examples arise later.
 
Rampancy said:
feel free to supply sources to substantiate your argument
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NAS 1997 report The New Americans
At the state and local government levels in New Jersey, the net fiscal burden from immigrant-headed households in the 1989-90 fiscal year is estimated to be $232 per native-headed New Jersey household, measured in 1996 dollars. A similarly constructed estimate for California from the 1994-95 fiscal year gives a net fiscal burden of $1,178 per native-headed California household, again measured in 1996 dollars. On average, immigrant-headed households from these two states make small positive net contributions to the federal government, equivalent to a reduction of $2 to $4 per year in federal taxes for resident households nationwide.

New Jersey and California both have large numbers of immigrants and, as a consequence, the net fiscal burden on native residents in those states imposed by immigrant-headed households is relatively high. If the net fiscal impact of all U.S. immigrant-headed households were averaged across all native households in the United States, the burden would be considerably lower—on the order of $166 to $226 per native household.

There are three main reasons why immigrants receive more in services than they pay in taxes in these annual calculations: (1) immigrant-headed households include more school-age children than native households on average, and therefore currently consume more educational services; (2) immigrant-headed households are poorer than native households on average, and therefore receive more state and locally funded income transfers; and (3) immigrant-headed households have lower incomes and own less property than native households on average, and thus pay lower state and local taxes.
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The long-term fiscal impact of an immigrant also depends on his or her education: immigrants with more education have more positive long-term fiscal impacts. For example, under one set of plausible assumptions, the net present value of the fiscal impact of an immigrant with less than a high school education is -$13,000
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It also noted that approximately 44 percent of wage depression among low-skilled Americans during 1980-1994 was due to immigration, along with increasing high school drops.

Each illegal immigrant household causes a net $2,736 burden on the economy.
Center for Immigration Studies

The federal reserve bank of atlanta concludes that economies with relatively abundant amounts of unskilled labor experience losses when they lower barriers to immigration. http://www.frbatlanta.org/filelegacydocs/wp0825.pdf

Which follows in neatly with
No technologically advanced industrial nation that has 27 million illiterate adults and another 20 - 40 million marginally literate adults need have any fear about a shortage of unskilled workers in its foreseeable future
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http://digitalcommons.ilr.cornell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1022&context=hrpubs

The federal reserve also estimated 240 billion in remittances leaving the country from immigrants. Money that could be circulating in our economy.
 
Automatic Jack said:
If you reasonable suspect someone is in the country illegally, isn't it reasonable to expect they faked a state ID?

I am done arguing something so obvious, you can ignore the fact you are wrong when the object examples arise later.
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not really. you need your birth certificate to get the state ID, so one implies the other.

now if the State ID apears to be fake (which by now most states have ID's that are easy to tell) or if the person apears to be different than the picture on the State ID, then yeah - more ID will be required.

but this idea that they'll see a valid State ID that appears to be for the person in question, and then require a birth certificate is garbage.

you're so dumb it hurts to even try to have a civil conversation with you.
 
you know whats funny. is if they made them legal and forced minimum wage, most of the illegals would be out of a job anyways.

the reason they get so many jobs is because its profitable for the employer - lower cost. make it even cost, and they'll be able to inact their racist/prejudice, or preferance for english speaking workers.

kind of a toss up on whether they'd stick with the illegals for their work ethic. i could see it going either way.
 
Detox.enD said:
not really. you need your birth certificate to get the state ID, so one implies the other.
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So there are no fake IDs out there, that's a relief. Or maybe you haven't thought it all the way through.


Detox.enD said:
you know whats funny. is if they made them legal and forced minimum wage, most of the illegals would be out of a job anyways.
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Which equals amnesty + enforcing labor laws which I have been advocating for literally years.

You need to practice agreeing with me, you aren't very good at it.
 
Automatic Jack said:
Which equals amnesty + enforcing labor laws which I have been advocating for literally years.

You need to practice agreeing with me, you aren't very good at it.
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you have absolutely no idea how i stand on the issue, because i haven't said how i stand on the forums.

you're assuming.

quit assuming. you make yourself look stupid. although, you do that without assuming to so maybe its pointless.
 
Automatic Jack said:
So there are no fake IDs out there, that's a relief. Or maybe you haven't thought it all the way through.
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i see you've resorted to cherry picking parts of my post, to make it look like i said something i didn't.
you must be running out of 'arguments'. (i put it in quotes cause its really just bullshit rhetoric on your part, i haven't seen you post a legit argument in the last few pages)
 
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