Hello Great Depression 2

perro said:

hey dac,

how would you justify paying 3x what you should for risky debt? how would you explain the conflict of interest of having a wall street executive formulate a plan to use taxpayer money to bail out other wall street executives who will undoubtedly NOT use that money to help those same taxpayers? how do you make any sense of a bailout plan that has been formulated literally overnight and sounds like it was written by a ten year old?

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The Powers-That-Be (TPTB): Be scared. Be very scared!

America: What is it that I need to be scared of?

TPTB: A calamity on Wall Street.

House Votes Down Bailout Bill

America: What do you mean? I thought some bankers, insurance giants, and government agencies made mistakes and they are going bankrupt.

TPTB: Exactly, and it will mean the collapse of the economy if we don’t do something.

America: What exactly do we have to do?

TPTB: We need to bail out the companies with $750, maybe $900 billion.

America: If we bail them out, won’t that reward them? Everyone knows that if you reward those who do something wrong they will do it again.

TPTB: Oh, we are not going to reward the wrong-doers, we are going to extend loans and credits to others to take over the indebted companies and businesses.

America: Like whom?

TPTB: Morgan, Citibank, etc.

America: Yes, I noticed that you gave the Morgan Stanley Company $27 billion in loans to take over Bear Stearns. Now they have taken over Washington Mutual for fire-sale prices.

TPTB: We need to do that to stabilize the economy.

America: Yes, but even J.P. Morgan's chief economist has said that the bailout won't work. And the Wall Street Journal has reported: “The plan to bail out the U.S. financial system Congress hammered out over the weekend offers a much-needed salve to ailing credit markets, but it is unlikely to prevent the economy from sliding into recession.”

TPTB: Well, we have to do something.

America: What if "doing something" is the wrong thing to do?

TPTB: It won't be — we have safeguards.

America: Like what?

TPTB: The government and the Federal Reserve.

America: Didn’t we have the government and Fed before?

TPTB: Yes, but now they are smarter.

America: But aren’t the people who are involved in oversight either CEOs or ex-employees of firms that are part of the problem or getting the money? Treasury Secretary Paulson has been called the Armand Hammer of China when he worked with Goldman Sachs.

TPTB: It’s called experience.

America: You want all of this money but when you have asked for money before it always turned out to be a down payment followed by asking for more. Plus it seems to me you are giving it to the fox who is guarding the henhouse.

TPTB: We have to do something and we need to do it now.

America: The rush to this solution bothers me. Wealth seems to be consolidating into fewer and fewer hands. I have always wondered why the history books always talk about how people lost everything in the Great Depression, but they never say where it went.

Now you say these firms lost billions — to whom? Where did it go?

TPTB: You obviously don’t understand economics. We need this $700 billion to save you.

America: What if I say no?

TPTB: We are not asking for your advice because it is obvious that you do not understand. It is for your own good.

America: Excuse me, I just want to get this straight. You are going to tax me 700 billion or more so that I do not lose what?

TPTB: Main Street.

America: So, you want somewhere around $10,000 per household to save me — rather Main Street?

TPTB: That’s right.

America: How do I know it will stop there?

TPTB: I promise.

America: But the emails, faxes, and telephone calls are running 50 or a 100 to one against the bailout. Now you are calling it a “rescue.”

TPTB: It has to be done — we have to bridge the gap.

America: Bridge the gap? It sounds more like another bridge to nowhere.

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DacTheHork said:

Banks collapsed

Worldwide stocks toppled, China/russia down 40%+

The largest bank ever collapsed

If you do nothing ala Great Depression 1, shit will just continue to fail. The government has to step in and save financials because even though they fucked up it was actually AMERICA's fault. The elected people we all vote for let the rules slide, let transparency slip, and let lending get out of control.

It's like saying Iraq isn't an American problem. In the end, now it doesn't matter how we got to where we are. Yes there was a lot of bullshit and crummy shit that led us to where we are. In the end we have to bail it out to keep the boat floating. It doesn't matter if the people who will get helped the most where part of the problem. In the end we HAVE to keep the boat going.

Collapse of credit means your ATM stop working, you can't buy a house, car, or basically anything on credit. Companies can't pay their employees. Massive layoffs and slowing down of economy. Trillions lost, savings lost, and basically a pretty big failure in the american and global economy which will take a while to recover from.

Or you pay 700 billion, keep the system going with some shred of health and in 4-10 years recover at least 500 billion of that if America runs good.


It's like letting the ship sink and recovering it 300 feet down into the ocean or stopping the leak now.

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DacTheHork said:

For knowing absolutely nothing about what happens if the bailout doesn't pass you should shut the fuck up.

You have no idea how dire it is.

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DacTheHork said:

It's like letting the ship sink and recovering it 300 feet down into the ocean or stopping the leak now.

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JuggerNaught said:

voting yes isnt necessarily the right thing.

1/2 the country is screaming WE NEED HELP
1/2 the country is screaming WE SHOULDNT PAY FOR IT

and probably 90% of those screaming on both sides barely understand the problem past what foxnews.com has told them.

The economy in this country is not a linear entity. You don't just apply a fix to part A of the economy and that makes part B of the economy start working, this isnt a fucking water well pump with an instant gratification reaction.

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JuggerNaught said:

voting yes isnt necessarily the right thing.

1/2 the country is screaming WE NEED HELP
1/2 the country is screaming WE SHOULDNT PAY FOR IT

and probably 90% of those screaming on both sides barely understand the problem past what foxnews.com has told them.

The economy in this country is not a linear entity. You don't just apply a fix to part A of the economy and that makes part B of the economy start working, this isnt a fucking water well pump with an instant gratification reaction.

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nada said:

hey. just so you know, we all realize you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

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The wealthiest 1 percent of the population earn 19 percent of the income but pay 37 percent of the income tax. The top 10 percent pay 68 percent of the tab. Meanwhile, the bottom 50 percent—those below the median income level—now earn 13 percent of the income but pay just 3 percent of the taxes.

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Reno said:

From what I'm hearing, the vast majority of the country is on the "we shouldn't pay for it" side.

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JuggerNaught said:

i hear the same, and in many ways i agree. But I also know that if something isnt done, it wont matter one way or the other if the people dont like paying for it because there wont be any money in their pocket books or bank accounts by then.

Unfortunately i think that ultimately the everyday taxpayer is either going to have to bite the bullet and let this package go through, or exercise the second amendment.

As this country has lost its backbone, they should go ahead and push the bailout package through now and get it over with.

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