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Another T|V idea
- Thread starter posr
- Start date
Bistromatic
Veteran X
you mean an option for the map editor to decide what weaps/packs/deploaybales are available on the map? It might be interesting if one could set the available stuff for each inventory station seperately, but it might only be good in competition where you actually practice enough to learn what is available where...
What i would like to see if this. Like the creator of the map/mod type list what available items are for use in that specific map/mod. Like, if its a water type level, and there are watercraft in it, then on the vehicle pad, only those vehicles are available. Certian packs would be available, certian weapons. It would be terrain/game specific. It would control the amount of turrets could be placed, ect... I think these should be editable via server, but should have basic presets too. Also, I would like the a playerconfig.cs file specifically for these favorites and that you could save your favs for each map/mod type.
Just an idea
Just an idea
Also, Id like to see the server be able to configure a lot of the shit very simply, if theres an LT, let the server be able to specify the weapons/packs. If its CTF, same thing, let there be presets in a dsc file or whatever the name is, but let the server be able to change them in notepad or whatever. I would like it to be MAP specific tho. Game Type specific is to general in my opinion.
I would like to see building platforms available, forcefields available, but only as an option that servers could have. Think about all the weapons in ren mod, or anni mod, or other mods out there. Have then available for servers to just add/change a few lines. I guess it would also be an easy way to mod the server as well, which would be a very nice addition to the game. If its coded in such a way, it would be a sinch to just change it, a few hours to change the config files for the maps, and then you could even save those changes and upload to be a mod. A simplier way to think of it is having a library of weapons that can be configured in map type. I would also like the rate of fire/ammo amount/damage, everything relating to the weapon/pack to be configurable via a map specific file. I hope im not asking for to much, hehe. But It would be a nice simple way for teh dev team to allow for modding servers.
-posr-
Clan IBA
I would like to see building platforms available, forcefields available, but only as an option that servers could have. Think about all the weapons in ren mod, or anni mod, or other mods out there. Have then available for servers to just add/change a few lines. I guess it would also be an easy way to mod the server as well, which would be a very nice addition to the game. If its coded in such a way, it would be a sinch to just change it, a few hours to change the config files for the maps, and then you could even save those changes and upload to be a mod. A simplier way to think of it is having a library of weapons that can be configured in map type. I would also like the rate of fire/ammo amount/damage, everything relating to the weapon/pack to be configurable via a map specific file. I hope im not asking for to much, hehe. But It would be a nice simple way for teh dev team to allow for modding servers.
-posr-
Clan IBA
Bistromatic said:you mean an option for the map editor to decide what weaps/packs/deploaybales are available on the map? It might be interesting if one could set the available stuff for each inventory station seperately, but it might only be good in competition where you actually practice enough to learn what is available where...
Its possible in tribes 2, its just hard work
Bistromatic
Veteran X
Oh, didn't know that, i never came across a restricted inv, and i played T2 for quite some time.
Was mainly used in stuff like arena servers. Where a few people had mods to disable chain or whatever mid-game.
As far as restricting invs goes, I think its a horrible idea if you're going to let the admin have easy access to restrict weapons or packs. Public servers would be absolute hell. It'd be a benefit for responsible admins, but it'd totally torpedo a huge majority of servers that most people would be playing on. All it'd take would be a childish admin getting owned by say, discs over and over again, for him to start disabling discs, lights, e packs, etc.
The potential for abuse is simply too high. Lord knows I wouldn't want to join some random server, and find half the weapons disabled because some admin thinks they're "cheap", and go around playing rocket pod wars.
If the idea is to make some maps built into the game that only allow certain equipment, it'd be interesting. (IE:, its built into the game that on SH you do not have an e pack or a cg for example). Granted I'd hate the example I just gave, but things like that could be interesting if done right. But as said before, if you're giving server admins easy control over this stuff, it'll be hell finding a normal T:V game.
As far as restricting invs goes, I think its a horrible idea if you're going to let the admin have easy access to restrict weapons or packs. Public servers would be absolute hell. It'd be a benefit for responsible admins, but it'd totally torpedo a huge majority of servers that most people would be playing on. All it'd take would be a childish admin getting owned by say, discs over and over again, for him to start disabling discs, lights, e packs, etc.
The potential for abuse is simply too high. Lord knows I wouldn't want to join some random server, and find half the weapons disabled because some admin thinks they're "cheap", and go around playing rocket pod wars.
If the idea is to make some maps built into the game that only allow certain equipment, it'd be interesting. (IE:, its built into the game that on SH you do not have an e pack or a cg for example). Granted I'd hate the example I just gave, but things like that could be interesting if done right. But as said before, if you're giving server admins easy control over this stuff, it'll be hell finding a normal T:V game.
Bistromatic said:Oh, didn't know that, i never came across a restricted inv, and i played T2 for quite some time.
ZProtoss said:Was mainly used in stuff like arena servers. Where a few people had mods to disable chain or whatever mid-game.
As far as restricting invs goes, I think its a horrible idea if you're going to let the admin have easy access to restrict weapons or packs. Public servers would be absolute hell. It'd be a benefit for responsible admins, but it'd totally torpedo a huge majority of servers that most people would be playing on. All it'd take would be a childish admin getting owned by say, discs over and over again, for him to start disabling discs, lights, e packs, etc.
The potential for abuse is simply too high. Lord knows I wouldn't want to join some random server, and find half the weapons disabled because some admin thinks they're "cheap", and go around playing rocket pod wars.
I dont really think thats the case. What im really looking forward to is the possibility of easy modding a server. I mean I dont want to wait 3months-a few years for a mod to come out. If there are those out there that like the renegades mod, let them be able to go ahead and mod the map config files the way they want.
But lets get this striaght. What I would like to see is this.
Each map has a preset inventory scheme, where some maps might include other weapons/packs then others, say a water map has a different weapons/packs/misc scheme then a forest or desert type map.
The maps oreset fabs would be in a map specific file that the admin could change.
I would like to see a huge list of weapons/packs/misc items that a user could choose to have, say in a centralized vol file or whatever hte extension is.
I think this would be really kool because it should allow for easy modding of servers, And the turn around for creating the specific mod would be fairly easy. All you would have to do is make a map pack and choose what weapons to create your own mod/map pack. Otherwise those who play Ren, or Anni, or Shift, or whatever type of mod they play now, could say easily play it in about 2-4 hours after the game is released. Thats what im looking for. MORE SERVER ADMIN CONFIGUABILITY !!!
|MrSniper|Nyx
Veteran X
Giving the mapper power to choose what inventories can dispense what is a good and bad idea. It allows for vastly more complex and interesting maps. You could have a forward tower which doesn't provide heavy armor suits, so HO can't be launched from that station. You could do all kinds of things, but that is where the bad part comes in: it destroyes KISS.
In a game like this there is enough depth with the inventory system alone to confuse alot of new players. Adding different stations with different loadouts would be akin to the confusion T1 newbies often feel when switching servers and being unaware they are switching MODs as well. Its like "wtf I could but the 'MEGADEATH BLASTER!" on the last server, why not here?!"
A compromise which I would love to see would be several types of inventory stations. You could have say an inventory which disperses everything except heavy armor and heavy only weapons, an inventory which only heals, and the everything inventory. These would follow KISS more closely because they would be distinguishable by sight, and not by entering them.
In a game like this there is enough depth with the inventory system alone to confuse alot of new players. Adding different stations with different loadouts would be akin to the confusion T1 newbies often feel when switching servers and being unaware they are switching MODs as well. Its like "wtf I could but the 'MEGADEATH BLASTER!" on the last server, why not here?!"
A compromise which I would love to see would be several types of inventory stations. You could have say an inventory which disperses everything except heavy armor and heavy only weapons, an inventory which only heals, and the everything inventory. These would follow KISS more closely because they would be distinguishable by sight, and not by entering them.
It's not T|V, not T.V., and not TV, it's T:V. Christ, get it right.Zoolooman said:Diversification is the bane of competitive play.
Standardization tends to improve competitive play.
Less super-easy configuration improves standardization and prevents a fracturing community that can't decide what is the "best" divegence from the original model.
And I agree with Zoolooman. Once again, we do not need all these god awful stupid mods and mutators that make each server a different game. I want to play one game, and I expect this game to work the same among all base servers. Mods are fine, but keep it to mods. Server-side options should not effect gameplay, or if they do it needs to be incredibly minor.
The idea here is this. If everything in the inveys could be configured per map, say the dev team has its base configuration. Or if someone releases a LT version, that mapper chooses the weapons. But each map have certian weapons that arent on other maps. I think that will cause people to use different weapons, and packs. Again, I would like to see this easily configurable via server for the purpose of tweaking the server to what THAT server admin/clan would like to play. Sure it could be base. But say one weapon is left off one map, the admin could simply add it. I think inveys should be map specific to just change things up. If your in a water type environment, say have a floating platform someone could deploy, or if on a forest type map, a treestand platform, or on a rocky type playfield, like my grandcanyon idea, have like rock platforms you could stand on. But obviously, you wouldnt need all these listed on each and every map. But, you could always add a weapon/pack/misc to the list anytime if you feel it should be included.
Remember, I did also suggest a centralized vol or whatever that contained a LOT of weapons/packs/misc iteams that my not make it in the final version of the game, but could be used for mods. And being able to configure it server side very easily would just be a nice way to do it. I dont see why it would be a big deal, or cause so much grief to have this option. The servers make the game playable, at least for multiplayer. If you dont like how its setup, Im sure theres a base server you could join.
Remember, I did also suggest a centralized vol or whatever that contained a LOT of weapons/packs/misc iteams that my not make it in the final version of the game, but could be used for mods. And being able to configure it server side very easily would just be a nice way to do it. I dont see why it would be a big deal, or cause so much grief to have this option. The servers make the game playable, at least for multiplayer. If you dont like how its setup, Im sure theres a base server you could join.
I don't think you understand how much it'd suck if admins could easily modify this from day 1. It'd be pure hell going from server to server, and having each server different, with each admin having different settings. What happens when one server runs SH with only disc, and the other runs it with only heavies and plasma? The last thing new people to the game need to experience is instability with every other server having some weird messed up setting.
As zooloo and ix have already said, you really need standardization. If everyone is playing what they think should be on a map, no one is ever going to get used to anything. It won't hurt the current competitive community, since they'll stay on servers where shit isn't modified (ie: 5150 servers in T:V). It'll really hurt the future or potential future competitive community since they'll never have a chance of playing the actual game since every tom dick and harry server will be screwing around with settings non-stop.
Leave the modifications to weapons/whatever in the hands of modders, so that specific mods can be made. Letting people keep a "base" configuration, but then having them add and remove stuff at will is just going to cause unbelievable amounts of issues.
As zooloo and ix have already said, you really need standardization. If everyone is playing what they think should be on a map, no one is ever going to get used to anything. It won't hurt the current competitive community, since they'll stay on servers where shit isn't modified (ie: 5150 servers in T:V). It'll really hurt the future or potential future competitive community since they'll never have a chance of playing the actual game since every tom dick and harry server will be screwing around with settings non-stop.
Leave the modifications to weapons/whatever in the hands of modders, so that specific mods can be made. Letting people keep a "base" configuration, but then having them add and remove stuff at will is just going to cause unbelievable amounts of issues.
posr said:The idea here is this. If everything in the inveys could be configured per map, say the dev team has its base configuration. Or if someone releases a LT version, that mapper chooses the weapons. But each map have certian weapons that arent on other maps. I think that will cause people to use different weapons, and packs. Again, I would like to see this easily configurable via server for the purpose of tweaking the server to what THAT server admin/clan would like to play. Sure it could be base. But say one weapon is left off one map, the admin could simply add it. I think inveys should be map specific to just change things up. If your in a water type environment, say have a floating platform someone could deploy, or if on a forest type map, a treestand platform, or on a rocky type playfield, like my grandcanyon idea, have like rock platforms you could stand on. But obviously, you wouldnt need all these listed on each and every map. But, you could always add a weapon/pack/misc to the list anytime if you feel it should be included.
Remember, I did also suggest a centralized vol or whatever that contained a LOT of weapons/packs/misc iteams that my not make it in the final version of the game, but could be used for mods. And being able to configure it server side very easily would just be a nice way to do it. I dont see why it would be a big deal, or cause so much grief to have this option. The servers make the game playable, at least for multiplayer. If you dont like how its setup, Im sure theres a base server you could join.
I dont think so. If you wanted to mod your server to have disc only on any map its possible with the current games. What im simply suggesting is make it more easy for the servers to be able to mod THEIR servers the way they want to as easily as possible. I really dont see the big deal in that. Also, im sure there will be PLENTY of non modded servers if this happened. Or slightly tweaked servers with small changes/additions/deletions. I think it would be up to the particular league ladders to decide what maps/weapons/packs/stuff should be on a server. Also, if you could edit it for LT play right off the bat, that would be neat, or whatever game type you want. Like have dynamic maps where the inveys could be disabled altogether, not sure if you could make a particular model dynamic, ie, not showing up if theres a false value in a script. But I assume its pretty hardwired in the map file, but Im sure its possible. Again, this is all about server configuration, being able to configure total game play very easily without having to acctually create new maps.
p.s. If models could be dynamic in games, perhaps having items like turrets + vehicle pads also be able to have a true/false value to have them on particular maps ? These are just ideas to give easier configuration to a game thats going to kick ass. Everyone sees all these risk in this, but how many do you think would acctually spend the hours it will take to edit all those files ;( Not many, and again, there would be those server that would remain base, with perhaps a few mods.
p.s. If models could be dynamic in games, perhaps having items like turrets + vehicle pads also be able to have a true/false value to have them on particular maps ? These are just ideas to give easier configuration to a game thats going to kick ass. Everyone sees all these risk in this, but how many do you think would acctually spend the hours it will take to edit all those files ;( Not many, and again, there would be those server that would remain base, with perhaps a few mods.
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Yes its possible. But the difficulty is enough at the moment so that its simple to modify it if you want to create a bonafide mod. But it's not as simple to modify as to let the admin easily modify it in 10 seconds.
Again, this issue totally comes down to the fact that when it comes to dealing with key gameplay physics/weapons/etc, global changes that are ultra easy to modify are a very bad thing. You mention "slightly tweaked servers". Slightly tweaked servers are VERY BAD. These slightly tweaked servers are a huge core of the problem with this idea. People as a whole are going to want an easily identifiable standard. If you have 10,000 servers named variant, where each one is slightly different, that's going to be complete and total hell.
If you want more proof of a customization system gone totally corrupt and bad, ut2k3 is a good example. Every other server is running a different mutator or "slight tweak", that changes the gameplay radically. Anyone seeking consistant play with the same elements over a wide variety of servers is screwed.
Look, lots of new people will be getting the game. They're going to be starting up servers and tons of them no doubt. If you give a new player to game, the ability to easily alter *VERY* critical global variables in gameplay. You know what happens? The community breaks, the community shatters, the community fractures. You're going to have people whose first experience was on "JOE BOBS SUPER SERVER", who are going to like chaingun only in heavy games then never wanting to switch (or they could quit the game immediately out of disgust). Take that, and think about all the other servers similar in nature to "JOE BOBS SUPER SERVER". You end up with a community playing with something obscene like 1000 different gametypes that are similar but different, and a community that can't be merged, can't easily form into a competitive base, and a community that dies after a few months.
New players need a pure experience the first time they play online. As pure as possible anyways. Letting people easily modify key settings within the game is just going to corrupt that. Lots of people will play on a modified server (that undoubtedly has crappy settings at that), think it sucks and never play again. Then some may play only that (see examples above). All in all, making it that customizable from day 1 is a flat out trainwreck waiting to happen.
Again, this issue totally comes down to the fact that when it comes to dealing with key gameplay physics/weapons/etc, global changes that are ultra easy to modify are a very bad thing. You mention "slightly tweaked servers". Slightly tweaked servers are VERY BAD. These slightly tweaked servers are a huge core of the problem with this idea. People as a whole are going to want an easily identifiable standard. If you have 10,000 servers named variant, where each one is slightly different, that's going to be complete and total hell.
If you want more proof of a customization system gone totally corrupt and bad, ut2k3 is a good example. Every other server is running a different mutator or "slight tweak", that changes the gameplay radically. Anyone seeking consistant play with the same elements over a wide variety of servers is screwed.
Look, lots of new people will be getting the game. They're going to be starting up servers and tons of them no doubt. If you give a new player to game, the ability to easily alter *VERY* critical global variables in gameplay. You know what happens? The community breaks, the community shatters, the community fractures. You're going to have people whose first experience was on "JOE BOBS SUPER SERVER", who are going to like chaingun only in heavy games then never wanting to switch (or they could quit the game immediately out of disgust). Take that, and think about all the other servers similar in nature to "JOE BOBS SUPER SERVER". You end up with a community playing with something obscene like 1000 different gametypes that are similar but different, and a community that can't be merged, can't easily form into a competitive base, and a community that dies after a few months.
New players need a pure experience the first time they play online. As pure as possible anyways. Letting people easily modify key settings within the game is just going to corrupt that. Lots of people will play on a modified server (that undoubtedly has crappy settings at that), think it sucks and never play again. Then some may play only that (see examples above). All in all, making it that customizable from day 1 is a flat out trainwreck waiting to happen.
posr said:I dont think so. If you wanted to mod your server to have disc only on any map its possible with the current games. What im simply suggesting is make it more easy for the servers to be able to mod THEIR servers the way they want to as easily as possible. I really dont see the big deal in that. Also, im sure there will be PLENTY of non modded servers if this happened. Or slightly tweaked servers with small changes/additions/deletions. I think it would be up to the particular league ladders to decide what maps/weapons/packs/stuff should be on a server. Also, if you could edit it for LT play right off the bat, that would be neat, or whatever game type you want. Like have dynamic maps where the inveys could be disabled altogether, not sure if you could make a particular model dynamic, ie, not showing up if theres a false value in a script. But I assume its pretty hardwired in the map file, but Im sure its possible. Again, this is all about server configuration, being able to configure total game play very easily without having to acctually create new maps.
p.s. If models could be dynamic in games, perhaps having items like turrets + vehicle pads also be able to have a true/false value to have them on particular maps ? These are just ideas to give easier configuration to a game thats going to kick ass. Everyone sees all these risk in this, but how many do you think would acctually spend the hours it will take to edit all those files ;( Not many, and again, there would be those server that would remain base, with perhaps a few mods.