UT2k4 mapper considering mapping for T:v. What would you like to see?

One of my favorite T2 maps was No Shelter. Good flagstand, great terrain (lots of variation) and fairly good bases. Would be even better with no vehicles.

Also, don't be afraid of complex bases, but make all the doorways within a fairly small area. (ie, you can see all the entrances if you jet up really high)

And always keep the flag semi-outside :)

The only successfull map that forced you to stop to grab the flag was snowblind, every single other one was shunned.
 
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Red Dwarf said:
ok, small vote.

Should the flag be easy enough to ski in and swipe it out or should it be in a smallish room that requires you to coordinate attacks?

the first option will end up being a high scoring match
the second would be low

the first would not require a great deal of coordinated teamwork
the second would.

Some of the maps I have payed so far dont require teamwork. Its just one very good player who shoots in at high speed, gets the flag and hes gone. If you broke the flag cappers speed meaning he would have to slow down and then start from scratch again it would be hard to cap.

I am sort of building up an idea of a map that would be good for a first attempt. I am unsure of which way to go with the base though.

I have seen people compain at how easy it is to cap in most maps.

Personally I like a flag base to have multiple entry points and open spaces. This is a little hard to do in Tribes as its mainly outdoors.

So, do you ruin the flow of the map by placing the flag indoors but making it better for teamwork, or do you go for the flag in/on a room thats easy enough to get?

Views please.
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If you want to make a competition map you are going to have to get acquainted with how competition plays.

it's clear from this post that you aren't familiar...so maybe you could try downloading some t1 and t2 classic demos from TWL or TW

If you want to make competition maps you have to realise that good defenders can and do stop cappers who shoot in at high speeds. Just because they are going a million miles per hour doesn't mean it's hard to stop them.

In fact, TV is defensively biased due to the sensor. It's easier to defend 1v1 in TV than it is in both T2 Classic and T1.

A map that makes you stop before grabbing will almost definatly flop. There are three maps which have succeeded doing this, snowblind, desert of death and minotaur. Every other one has flopped. Minotaur is a tiny map where the flags are only about 100m apart, desert of death has no inventories.

You are going to want to take the advice of this thread and keep the flags outside and grabbable at high speeds or your first map will almost certainly flop.

Teamwork and coordination comes from being forced to clear the defenders who can kill the fast cappers, and then escorting the capper after the grab when he gets chained down and sniped.

I'm not putting you down but your entire post is sort of a red flag that you don't understand how competition plays out.
 
Id like to see more maps with concentration on using defence (turrets) for the base and not for the flags. If you have a safe protected base the team can concentrate on avatar D and O more, the way the game should be.

Just make it less worthwhile for the opposing team to even want to try and take down your gens/invs...

Sensors, keep them in easy reach.

just my 2c.
 
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bae raping right now is practically pointless though. even if you get a few good heavies in there, a few good spawns can take them out in no time.
 
Impulse! said:
bae raping right now is practically pointless though. even if you get a few good heavies in there, a few good spawns can take them out in no time.
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I don't know what you're talking about... The 10-15 seconds the spawns spend clearing and repairing their base, is more than enough time a well coordinated team needs to take your flag.

A descent HO can do a lot of damage. Personally, I've found that trying to camp is worthless. If you can get in take the gens down and get out of the base, you have a descent chance at fighting off the spawns that are trying to repair. I've done this on many occasions on Isle and WL, and it seems like the only option you have on Cavern. Get in, drop a mortar+gren+disc on the gen and gtfo of the base. After a short break you go in for a second strike.

It can be just as effective as camping, only it's a little more work.
 
It's also base design dependant. If you move the repair pack away from the gens (which we didn't want to do for pubs, but might be excelent for comp / and more hardcore play) you would probably make BR very effective, and if you put the gens away from the spawn sphere then heavy camping could be a strat too (another thing we didn't want in pubs).
 
It's not the spawn-spheres that stop camping as much as the 1-room bases

none of the bases really have anywhere to go, except out

even if t1 bases for example looked small, like stonehenge, there was the place behind the wall and other places where a heavy could hang out and cover himself from fire

disc knockback is another factor. In T1/T2 heavies would get disced a few times by a spawner, but then would duck around a corner and kill the guy with a mortar or nade launcher/hand nade/mine combos. in TV, when you get disked, the knockback makes you lose all control and you'll probably run into a wall and get stuck

on top of that you can't kill spawns in 1 mortar since they are mediums

indoors, the advantage of a loadout is VERY negligible and the advantage of a heavy is hard to discern. this is opposite from other tribes games where heavies (or mediums in t2) were kings of the bases and a light inside a base was a sitting duck. I guess lights insides bases still are sitting ducks, they just don't exist :p
 
Forensic said:
It's not the spawn-spheres that stop camping as much as the 1-room bases

none of the bases really have anywhere to go, except out

even if t1 bases for example looked small, like stonehenge, there was the place behind the wall and other places where a heavy could hang out and cover himself from fire

disc knockback is another factor. In T1/T2 heavies would get disced a few times by a spawner, but then would duck around a corner and kill the guy with a mortar or nade launcher/hand nade/mine combos. in TV, when you get disked, the knockback makes you lose all control and you'll probably run into a wall and get stuck

on top of that you can't kill spawns in 1 mortar since they are mediums

indoors, the advantage of a loadout is VERY negligible and the advantage of a heavy is hard to discern. this is opposite from other tribes games where heavies (or mediums in t2) were kings of the bases and a light inside a base was a sitting duck. I guess lights insides bases still are sitting ducks, they just don't exist :p
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I don't think so. The one room base is not the problem. Look at RD as an example. In some respect, I like the Isle bases more since it's not as vulnerable to camping( reguardless of the spawn sphere ). When you start moving the critical aspects of the game around, it changes the flow. In the case of the maps we have now, it's not wise to try camping. But when the retail is released, I'm sure we'll see some variety in this. If not, then I'm sure the community will make some with what Thrax has mentioned above... outdoor spawn spheres, not-so-convenient rep packs, etc.

At that point, I think we'll start seeing some matches that are more reminiscent of 'tribes' than the current maplist.

Also, try to let go of the t1/t2 mentality, I know it's 'still tribes,' but this doesn't mean every technique is going to( or should ) carry over. ;)
 
An indoor base that is open like this. Complete with spacious underground access.

ps: free webhost don't be suprised if dling the vid is slow. Seems to be going fast now.
 
It's possible (for instance) to camp on Fort where the spawning happens in a different room than the gens and it takes some time for people to get from spawn to the camper, but that room has two doors and is very small, so it's fairly easy to get at the camper unless he/she has help. Putting the gens in a different building, or a different section of a building (think Scarabrea) would have an even greater effect.
 
^Jadakiss said:
Nice vid.
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I think a similar type of base would make for some fun gameplay situations. Cause its more of a big tent than your usual base. Its covered but it has easy access in and out. Plus underground to mix things up a bit.
 
Tribes maps should always have some outdoor element, however minimal. I'd recommend against "over-centralizing" base elements. Spreading them out creates more interesting and varied gameplay.
 
Hmmm.

I think I will wait until the retail version comes out then bump this thread asking which is the better map and why.

It seems as though an outside map with an outside flag is the way to go. It will then be a case of making something for the flag that requires a good deal of skill to ski in and out. Hitting it just right will get you the flag, if not you get stuck.

That way the best routes in can be planned but the D will also know what that is and plan accordingly.

Keep the suggestions coming as its helping me to build up some ideas.
 
Just keep playing...

Avoid the "competition" vs "pubbing" debate. Make maps that work for both styles of play.

You need moderate-to-fast tempo maps for competition play. Ones which aren't continuously stuck in "stand off" mode. Such maps also work for pubbing.

(and swing by zenegg.com forums where lots of tv mappers are chilling).
 
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