Tribes - Likes/Dislikes

K

KillerONE

Veteran X
Likes and Dislikes of Tribes Games Past, for Legends/RenWerx/Future Teams looking to create a great Tribes inspired game.

I originally was gonna post this at the Legends or Renwerx sites, but figured everyone comes here first and better input and exposure would result.

Instead of squabling over mod preferences, weapon balance, skiing intracasies I figured a nice list of what you LIKE and DON'T LIKE as it pertains to SS:Tribes, Tribes 2 and Tribes: Vengeance would be the best approach for new teams creating their design docs.

Please don't use this thread to argue with peoples likes and dislikes, this isn't a debate, simply state what you like and dislike and move on. Try to use the same format for easy readability.

Likes:

* Friend or Foe indicators - Easily recognize enemies, less TK's, more fun.
* Ability to easily read peoples names by placing your reticle near them.
* Tribes 2 Vchat - For intuitive organization
* ESDF!
* Intuitive flag grab/drop/cap sounds
* Tribes 2 Inventory System
* Generator/Sensor strategic element
* Deployable strategic element
* Waypointing objects and teammates!
* Waypointing through Vchat!
* Command Screen (for locating objects/waypointing/teammate health, early enemy detection)
* Tribes 2 Community elements (Tag/Clan system, IRC, News)
* Tribes 2 Vehicles FUN! (Team oriented vehicles, Bomber/Tank required teamwork)
* Tribes 2 Missle Lock!
* Disk Jumps!
* Mine Disks! (needs some tweaking, imo)
* Flag Objective Hud!
* Observer tools!
* Tournament Mode!
* Tribes 2 Map system (If you used base objects/textures didn't have to download new map.) Unlimited terrain.
* Feeling of large areas (Not T:V)
* Tribes 2C Hit Detection Sound!
* Skiing!!
* Body Blocking!
* Different Grenade types! (conc for flag stand offs, Flares, regular)
* Flag Chasing/Escorting, Flag Passing/Handoffs. Scrambles.
* Discable Flag.
* Heads Up Flag Icon (Always know where flag is)
* 20min Maps
* T1/T2 Voting for Map Change/Time Limits
* Server Browser - Buddy Filter for finding buddies!!
* Being able to MUTE people!

Dislikes:

* Backcaps - Map Design takes part, but there's also movement/physics involved.
* T:V Grapple Caps
* T:V Shield caps
* Anything 1 shot-1 kill (Minedisk, Shocklance) - Mortar is OK.
* T:V Loud Spammy voices/messages
* Taunts (Why is poor sportsmanship built into the game?)
* Knowing the rules of the server (some easy way to educated joining/joined players)
* Not having the map, disconnecting from server.
* People killing themselves just before they die and not being penalized.
* Playing in Spawn for entire map (Base Rape)
* Chat Spam

I spent a bit of time thinking of the things I like and disklike while playing SS:Tribes, Tribes 2 and/or Tribes:Vengeance. I've since returned a bit to T2, don't play much, but I still enjoy playing that much more than T:V. I gave T:V a SOLID 6 months of regular play, enjoyed it, but there's just so much that becomes annoying and not fun. T2 is still the game I prefer.

I encourage everyone to come up with their likes/disklikes list to help Legends/Renewerx guys get a nice pulse of the Tribes community.

REMINDER: Please don't hate/debate everyones likes/disklikes, simply post what you like and disklike for the sake of compilation. I don't need you telling me why I shouldn't like apples. It's a preference, leave it at that, thanks.

:)
 
Ok, I won't tell you why you shouldn't like apples. I'll just say you're a fag if you do. :heart:


A n y w a y:

Likes:

- Freedom of movement with the right set of skills
- Easily customizable loadouts
- Primary and secondary objectives
- Prediction based weaponry to increase skill requirements
- MODDABILITY!!!!11
- Intuitive vchat system
- NO rock-paper-scissors game mechanics
- Simple, non-specific equipment design to allow user creativity
- Deployable items to build your own defense
- Feedback of your environment and actions: target labels, hit sounds etc.
- Solid netcode allowing for huge player numbers


Dislikes:

- Roles sometimes get repetitive and frustrating
- Negligent client access control leading to cheats and exploits
- High learning curve and complex game basics turn off casual gamers
- Too addictive :sunny:
 
Only played T1 and T:V. T2 didn't like my hardware at the time.

Likes:
*Mobility/freedom. Not stuck running down a corridor, getting sniped, respawning and running down the same corridor with hopes of not getting sniped. I'm actually shocked that someone has already complained about backcaps! It's that kind of stuff that makes Tribes so different from Unreal.

*Simple but versitile equipment. There's nothing super-complex about the weapons/packs/deployables, but they can all be used in a variety of ways. The unexpected uses of some stuff (grapplers) has be a love/hate thing though.

*T:V's pace (on a decent server). Yeah, I know the stategy-buffs hate it, but I had a lot more fun with the fast-paced action of T:V than I do with 99% of FPS games (T1 included).

*The games are very much team oriented, but they do a better job than most games of neither making the player TOO insignificant as an individual (Battlefield), or making a single player TOO important. Granted, T:V tends to lean toward the second mistake, where a single good player can completely turn the tide of a game, but I've seen worse.

*The jetpacks and projectile weapons make combat itself very different from any other FPS.

Dislike:

*The community. The community makes me cry a lot.

*Vehicles. I love the idea, but like most people I hate them in execution. The Rover is some fun, but others range from worthless to incredibly cheap.

*Single minded base-rape. Twice as bad when you're on unbalanced teams. I hate people who do NOTHING but spawn, put on a heavy armor /w a shieldpack, and beeline for your generator while shooting mortars everywhere. This is not just a T:V thing, I hates this in T1 also. It's just 10X worse in T:V because you don't have the elf gun or the infinite turrets.

*Speaking of which, infinite turrets. Ahhh...the hypocricy. Base farming makes things boring for the farmer and the attacker who has to spend all his time mortaring turrets. The finite turrets in T:V were a good idea, but it goes to far to the point that they're almost worthless. There has to be a better way to LIMIT defenses while not making them inept.

*Glitch exploitation. True of both the Tribes games I played, although to different degrees. T1's skiiing was, is, and will remain an exploited glitch. It's no SO cheap because there's a speed limit in T1, but its still never cool to exploit bugs. T:V's grapple-looping is a lot worse, although I see it less often. The fact that this stuff is ENCOURAGED rather than frowned upon bothers me, but I guess that's more a part of my first dislike than anything else. I understand that this type of stuff happens in a game like Tribes; I just hope that the next Tribes team gets the bright idea of FIXING it once its discovered.
 
DreamcastJunkie said:
*Glitch exploitation. True of both the Tribes games I played, although to different degrees. T1's skiiing was, is, and will remain an exploited glitch. It's no SO cheap because there's a speed limit in T1, but its still never cool to exploit bugs. T:V's grapple-looping is a lot worse, although I see it less often. The fact that this stuff is ENCOURAGED rather than frowned upon bothers me, but I guess that's more a part of my first dislike than anything else. I understand that this type of stuff happens in a game like Tribes; I just hope that the next Tribes team gets the bright idea of FIXING it once its discovered.
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more. Drives me nuts when some kids find glitches in games and it becomes "part" of the game.
 
@ Dreamcast:


The number of turrets you could place in one spot was limited even in T1, and T2 had the same sort of team turret limit that T:V has.

Also, I just can't believe you said that discovering something that was unknown so far is a bad thing. That's what kept (and stil keeps) Tribes evolving: people find new ways to do whatever they need. The only thing where something new is bad is when it's unbalancing, like the grappler in T:V.
 
like:
- that the weapon/pack choices are simple, but very different from one another (as opposed to something like cs where every gun is basicaly the same thing with a few numbers and a model changed)
- freedom of movement
- has a hard learning curve; it takes time to actually get decent at it so it extends the replay value

dislikes:
- enemy markers: knowing where an enemy is instantly before you can even see them eliminates any semblance of stealth (i know its not meant to be a stealth game at all, but the markers make it a bit too easy for the other team)

- deployable turrets--letting people farm is pretty lame, i prefer tfc style where one class gets to build stuff; maybe a wrench as a weapon would be useful, and then if you have a wrench you can build mines/turrets/catapults/etc

- spawn killing
 
wahjot said:
dislikes:
- enemy markers: knowing where an enemy is instantly before you can even see them eliminates any semblance of stealth (i know its not meant to be a stealth game at all, but the markers make it a bit too easy for the other team)
Click to expand...
This is what the old Tribes 1/2 sensor system dealt with very well.

As for me:

Likes:
  • I have no problem with farming, what's wrong with it? Generally the farmers are in a slow armour and outside. Spam scripts perhaps automate it a bit too much.
  • CREATIVITY is rewarded, as there are always many possible strategies to achieve victory.
  • Missile lock! Die vehicle, DIE!
  • If there must be vehicles, they should at least be fun like T2's
  • Tribes 1 and 2's sensor system is nice. It adds a strategic/stealthy/blahblahblah element.

Dislikes:
  • Missiles that can lock onto players. Having to carry flares around constantly and watch your jetpack heat is no good.
  • 64 player servers with crappily designed maps, and focusing around limited objectives and bases which degenerate into crappy team deathmatch games. (T2)
  • Complainers
  • Shocklance, as it stood in T2. Despite what they say, the shocklance was a complete pain. With a cloakpack you could stand near where you knew players would need to be still (Vpad, invs, etc), and zap them easily. Even if you didn't achieve a backstab, a shocklance can kill a player's momentum and damage him a good deal. (in duels, against slower heavies, etc). A lower range, and I think it would probably be fine.
  • T:V caps. The heavies can't HoF, the grappler is nuts, the shield pack turns discs and mortars into free momentum, etc.
  • Over reliance on server-side mods/maps which lack alot of features that client-side ones could have. Too many lazy people that aren't willing to download. A better autodownload is a must.
  • Annoying T:V voice binds. Eggh
 
Amadeu5 said:
@ Dreamcast:


The number of turrets you could place in one spot was limited even in T1, and T2 had the same sort of team turret limit that T:V has.

Also, I just can't believe you said that discovering something that was unknown so far is a bad thing. That's what kept (and stil keeps) Tribes evolving: people find new ways to do whatever they need. The only thing where something new is bad is when it's unbalancing, like the grappler in T:V.
Click to expand...

I recall being able to place a pretty sizable number of turrets in T1, with only a little bit of distance between them. Maybe I'm just not persistant enough.

I don't have a problem with discovering new things. More power to whoever decided to throw a mine at someone. There is, however, a very fuzzy line between an idea and an exploit. Doing loops with the grappler is an exploit, since it's SUPOSSED to break. Skiing is an exploit, since you're SUPOSSED to lose momentoum. If someone found a way to always hit you without an aimbot, would you encourage using that too? I encourage doing stuff that the designers didn't think of. That's part of what makes Tribes fun, I agree. I can't support exploiting though.

I'm assuming you don't go to arcades, but think about this: when I (or you, hypothetically) put 50 cents into your favorite fighting game to try and take on whoever's playing, I do (and you would) get pretty pissed when that person wins by exploiting a cheap glitch in the game (infinite combos, for example). So now you're pissed and out 50 cents.

Now, when somebody pulls some lame stunts with the grappler bugs in T:V, I get pissed. I just want to play the game and have fun, not listen to (and ususally take part in, given my lack of maturity) flame wars on the chat box because somebody's being lame.
 
Likes
*Movement: skiing, jetting, everything involved, although I think T2 Classic did the best job at the speed, while T:V had the best skiing
*Team-oriented combat
*T:V's pack style
*Deployables
*The ease of interface in a complicated form of combat
*V-Chat in terms of assigning basic tasks
*Vehicles

Dislikes
*V-Chat in taking the place of normal conversation - you barely ever see actual dialogue explaining what you need to do, just spam that barely makes sense enough to follow along with
*Lack of teamwork - everyone wants everyone else to do the work while they cowboy: "Someone else will do it."
*Total lack of advanced customization - only a few weapons, a few packs, only one kind of jetpack, and no ability to customize the armor itself (not the equipment you carry with it)
*Horrible music
*Sporty, child-like art and gameplay direction
*Vehicles that are vulnerable to only one or two kinds of weapons
*Vehicles that require more than one person to be useful
*Vehicles that don't require more than one person to be cowboy equipment
*No coordination
*Over-moddability
*Poor community
 
DreamcastJunkie said:
Now, when somebody pulls some lame stunts with the grappler bugs in T:V, I get pissed. I just want to play the game and have fun, not listen to (and ususally take part in, given my lack of maturity) flame wars on the chat box because somebody's being lame.
Click to expand...

Except the grappler was intentionally made that way. It's no glitch...
 
DreamcastJunkie said:
Doing loops with the grappler is an exploit, since it's SUPOSSED to break. Skiing is an exploit, since you're SUPOSSED to lose momentoum.
Click to expand...
There's a major difference between the two. Grappler tricks are unbalancing, because they make the person a lot more harder to stop, and prevent the chasers from shooting at him while keeping up. Skiing - even though it is an exploit - is balanced, because it doesn't limit anyone in any way, and is available to anyone at anytime. The execution also requires more skill at skiing than grapple whoring.
 
Things I particularly like about each game:
Tribes 1
• Chaingun model
• Can throw grenades from scout
• Extensive floating bases
• Fantastic retail maps


Tribes 2 (Classic mod)
• Disk launcher model
• Flag and base waypoints (although I change the icon for the flag so that it doesn’t cover up the actual carrier!)
• Player hit recognition sound
• Shields on inventory stations
• Inventory system
• Blaster ignores shields
• Bases are always marked so that you can find them when you’re lost


Tribes Vengeance
• Burner
• Sniper rifle model
• Limited sniper ammo
• Flag carriers cannot get into vehicles to become nigh invincible
• Ammo stations are effective
• Flag/Grenade throw control shows you how powerful your throw will be

Things I dislike about each game:
Tribes 1
1. Blaster is unused 95% of the time… it is a good weapon, but it's energy use makes it unhelpful. Reducing its energy requirement would help significantly.
2. Lack of other grenade types
3. Skiing is not refined in the way T2 classic is - meaning you bounce a lot more than you need to
4. Inventory system (unscripted)
5. Jump cannot be held down (unscripted)
6. Warping Terrain
7. Lack of visible out-of-bounds border
8. Dodgy trails (especially mortar)
9. Disk launcher model
10. No max throw grenades option (unscripted)
11. Max throw grenades have a high arc – making them impossible to throw straight down. Also most max throw scripts override the normal grenade key rather than being an additional option (I think?)
12. Crashing into other players at high speed does no damage (?)
13. Vehicles are not manoeuvrable enough (particularly in the z plane)
14. Free look doesn’t work.
15. No hit recognition sounds


Tribes 2 (Classic mod)
1. Whiteout grenades are not effective enough. They could be improved by:
a. Increasing the length of effect
b. Making them remove IFFs for a period of time – acting like a temporary sensor jammer for people blinded by them.
2. Flares are carried 99% of the time. Alteration of man-portable rocket launcher would solve this!
3. Concussion grenades do not seem to have an area of effect that matches their explosion size
4. Blaster bullets are too slow
5. Dark spots on maps are too dark, some maps are entirely like this (eg Firestorm)
6. Chaingun model (barrels are too square)
7. No max throw grenades option (unscripted)
8. Crashing into other players at high speed does no damage (?)
9. Shrike should not be able to outrun missiles from a standing start
10. Havoc needs to be more nimble/less affected by disk explosions
11. Deployable turrets are too small and hard to see
12. Vehicles are too hard to destroy without using the missile launcher (and even then in the case of the shrike)
13. Vehicle hit recognition sound is too quiet.
14. Voice-over says team names thus making community based tribes unusable
15. Player models are affected by perspective too much


Tribes Vengeance
1. Base turrets play virtually no part in the game due to not being automatic
2. Lack of other grenade types
3. No carving
4. All physics
5. Retail map size
6. Solid map boundary
7. Lack of cap out limit
8. Control options in game (lack of modifier keys, and lack of being able to select many functions - such as specific weapons)
9. Name Icon Name kill messages
10. No max throw grenades option (unscripted)
11. Turrets and other deployables should have some weight
12. Voice-over says team names thus making community based tribes unusable
13. Flag physics
14. Lack of waypoints/commander system
15. No free look (?)
16. Players and vehicles both have the same hit recognition sound
17. Inventory system
18. There is no indication of when you hit team mates or they hit you

Zustiur.
 
DreamcastJunkie said:
I recall being able to place a pretty sizable number of turrets in T1, with only a little bit of distance between them. Maybe I'm just not persistant enough.

Skiing is an exploit, since you're SUPOSSED to lose momentoum. If someone found a way to always hit you without an aimbot, would you encourage using that too? I encourage doing stuff that the designers didn't think of. That's part of what makes Tribes fun, I agree. I can't support exploiting though.
Click to expand...
1) You must've played Renegades or something because in Base the team item max on turrets is 10, and 2 turrets per box(a box is 62500m3) while having to be placed 10m apart inside the box. Farming, like most things in base T1, is an art.

2) Skiing can never be an exploit for two reasons: 1 - The developers "invented" it. 2 - You can easily adjust the physics in the server settings to adjust it. If you want eg losing momentum to be part of skiing you can have it. The things is everyone likes it the way it is. I remember back when we walked accross the huge maps and flew apc's.. It was a whole other game then, but I think we all agree it's better now. Those that don't agree can play TAC or something. :p:
 
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KillerONE said:
Dislikes:

* Taunts (Why is poor sportsmanship built into the game?)

* People killing themselves just before they die and not being penalized.
* Playing in Spawn for entire map (Base Rape)

:)
Click to expand...


* taunt's keep things interesting for me. anyone who thinks otherwise should die.

* if you dont like to play in spawn (because of base rape) then play D for a change, instead of going o...

* ppl killing themselves b4 they die is part of the game and is a smart move...why wait for you to kill me, while i could be more efficient elsewhere...just so you can get points!?!?!!? laff!
 
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