Thrax speaks in VUGames T:V forum

[jsut]

I don't know about that, and you're again assuming there are two staple weapons, but I'll see if I can arrange a test (no promises). Realize though that there's no single developer that must be convinced; there's a group of us.

Just a bit of reaction here. in heavy, in past games, i definately think there were two staple weapons.

1) the mortar
it's extremely rare to see a heavy loadout without a mortar.

2) the disk
staple to practically every loadout. useful at nearly all ranges, and for offense it is of primary importance becuase in past games it was the best way to accelerate a heavy at the beginning of a route to get your movement started.

From what we know about T:V, the disk may be less important because if we're in an epack, we can perhaps use the epacks boost instead of disk jumping. Perhaps if you use it right at the start of the route you'll be able to use it again mid route too, and have no health cost as you would from DJing. That being said, HO running in other packs are left out in the cold in that regard. In T2 Classic for example, there is heavy use of SJ and shield HO.

Concerning the mortar, the only place i could see it getting used less while in heavy armor is as a defensive tool. HD could sometimes live without it in the context of T1 and T2. HoF's could too, but that would likely be a more personal decision. On offense however, i can't really see it being left behind. Perhaps i'll change my mind when beta comes out, but until then i won't know.

In all other armors, the only really staple weapon is the disk. Again, partly because of the DJ, and partly because it's just so damned useful for so many things. I'm sure Zoolooman already covered all this, but yeah

 

[Phaseshift]

Personally I'm intrigued by the idea of 2-3-4, for example.

Me too.

Playing a lot of t2 arena, I only used two weapons as a light. (kept a cg but never used it) It was pretty interesting because the spinfuser was given and the other weapon I chose made a big differance on how I would fight.

Maybe we could test this out in the beta.

 

[-Striker-]

It is insulting to think 3 weapons is confusing. Look at bf or quake, opposite games on the spectrum of uniqueness, yet they both allow way more than 3 weapons. And it has always been a non issue to use them.

 

[Oxide]

BF: Pistol, knife and nades are just secondary weapons, in BF your main weapon defines you. Completely different from Quake.

Anyway, 2-3-4 sounds interesting. :browsmile

 

[Void|deadjawa]

BF: Pistol, knife and nades are just secondary weapons, in BF your main weapon defines you. Completely different from Quake.

Anyway, 2-3-4 sounds interesting. :browsmile

Thats because BF is designed around a stupid thing called "reality" where an assault rifle is always better than a pistol.

T:V is not based around reality, so it doesnt need to limit itself to 1 main weapon per class.

 

[Wulfen]

It is insulting to think 3 weapons is confusing. Look at bf or quake, opposite games on the spectrum of uniqueness, yet they both allow way more than 3 weapons. And it has always been a non issue to use them.

Yeah, my thought too. If they're trying to get the Quake, UT crowd to play, they're all used to more than 3 weapons.

 

[Apotheosis]

That's interesting. In T1 Arena, I found that I needed about three or four "favorite setups."

I had three main setups (weapons listed in order of importance/usage);

1) Indoor Shielder; Shield Pack - Plasma Gun (primary indoor weapon), Grenade Launcher (very useful spam weapon), Disk Launcher (backup after Plasma ammo ran out, and some special circumstances)

2) Outdoor Sniper; Energy Pack - Laser Rifle (for sniping, duh), Chain Gun (you gotta' whore), Disk Launcher (general use weapon)

3) Outdoor General; Energy Pack - Chain Gun (whore!), Disk Launcher (general use weapon), Grenade Launcher (general use).

In all three cases, I carried the Disk Launcher, but it was not the primary weapon used in any case -- in first two cases, the first weapon I would leave out if I were restricted to two weapons would be the Disk Launcher.


On another note, I personally would hate to be restricted to just two weapons for Lights in T:V.
One of the good things about Tribes1 (CTF) is that even though the roles are specialized, you can *still* perform other roles effectively. For example, if you are a sniper on defense in T1, it is still viable for you to go offense and take out the generators, or help clear the flag, or even grab the flag. I don't think it should be necessary to switch loadouts every time a role is changed -- I switch up my role (in pubs, at least) too often I'm afraid that limiting the weapon selection to just two for lights will force just that.

Consider a Light sniper for example. The player carries a Laser Rifle and a Disk Launcher, allowing him/her to snipe (obviously) and also fend off people who come over to take him/her out. However, with this loadout, the player is pretty much unable to play the role of a chaser. How about Laser Rifle and Chain Gun then... the player could become a chaser but this would greatly limit how well he/she could fend off incoming attackers.

I understand that in matches, it may be okay to have highly specialized roles. However, for pubs at least, versatility is something I very much enjoy and I think most people like trying to be a jack of all trades.

edit: added last paragraph

 

[Colosus]

Having played the game multiple times in a "pub" type environment I think I might have a viewpoint you're looking for.

I too was very concerned with the 3 weapon setup. I agreed with what many of you said here about the fundamental values of Tribes and how this would disallow versatility in the armors and create a more "class-based" system that is not what Tribes is.

However, after playing the game and realizing how I play T1 and T2, it became apparent that I had no idea what I was talking about. Three weapons is plenty for any person given the speed of the game. How often do you survive in T1 to use all your weapons as a heavy?

To find out, I hopped on 5150 competition west while the map was raindance with a 10v10 setup. I got in a heavy. My normal loadout for HO is Disc, Chain, Gren, Mortar, Plasma, Energy. I started my run to the enemy base. I used the Disc for a disclaunch. I then shot some mortars as I was coming down to take out the rocket launcher and some LD. I landed in the entrance, shot some more mortars down into the base. I hopped into the base, tossed some hand grenades and mines while trying to take out the gens with the mortar. I died before I even got my last mortar shot off.

I did that run 5 times. 2 of the times I survived and took over the base and ended up using other weapons. In which case I used the grenade launcher to spam the door. At no time during all that time did I use the chaingun or plasma gun.

I then decided to try HoF. I have the same weapon loadout for HoF, except a shield pack. As HoF, I actually used my chain, disc and mortar. The other weapons were only fired accidently as I was switching between.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that it is very rare for you to need all 5 weapons you use. Most of the time the only purpose you're serving is to give the enemy ammunition and if you do survive long enough to NEED all 5 weapons on an ammo basis, then the other team is obviously not at your skill level. Time to move on, no need to rub it in.

T2 had a much different aspect to it because the game is much slower and the maps much larger. Forcing you to need that versatility across the map. T:V is not like that. Remember that you are not a walking tank, but a person inside of a suit. You are meant to die and respawn, not live forever causing damage until the cows come home and you don't need to be able to do everything.

Just my opinion, but I think the 3 weapon setup will work just fine.

 

[[hAuS] C R A B]

Instead of an 'ammo pack' which I don't believe has been announced, can the T:V ammo pack give you 1 extra weapon placeholder (maybe 2 with the Heavy)?

 

[KillerONE]

It is insulting to think 3 weapons is confusing. Look at bf or quake, opposite games on the spectrum of uniqueness, yet they both allow way more than 3 weapons. And it has always been a non issue to use them.

It's not that three weapons are confusing.. it's that different number of weapons for each armor are.

3 weapons per armor keeps it consistent/simple (lesss confusing).

 

[Shoddy]

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that it is very rare for you to need all 5 weapons you use.

In T2 I don't think it's quite as rare:
Chain fleeing enemy capper
Disk jump
Fire a Missile at a turret or sensor
Mortar the generator
Grenade spam while you camp

 

[pyrot3chnic]

...and you're again assuming there are two staple weapons...

It's statements like this that make me go
I'm pretty sure the disc will remain the "don't leave home w/o it" weapon, for combat as well as disc-jumping. I'm speculating, but what weapon would be powerful enough to unseat the mortar? If this is the case, and it doesn't seem there will be anymore heavy-only weapons, then something is very wrong.

 

[Colosus]

In T2 I don't think it's quite as rare:
Chain fleeing enemy capper
Disk jump
Fire a Missile at a turret or sensor
Mortar the generator
Grenade spam while you camp

Which is why I mentioned that T:V is not like T2.

 

[KillerONE]

What I think he's saying, (I think he actually said this), all the weapons will be useful/effective. At least that's what they are planning. So, you won't necessarily have 3 great weapons and 5 crappy ones.

 

[Ben Reed]

DeWald, your opinion is your opinion, but I don't like the way you put on airs about having "seen the light", professing your former stance on the issue, which I currently hold, as the stance of ignorance.

Until I see T:V for myself and play it with my own hands, I will maintain my skepticism without shame or uncertainty. There is no shame in theorizing, and I shall bear none.

 

[Colosus]

DeWald, your opinion is your opinion, but I don't like the way you put on airs about having "seen the light", professing your former stance on the issue, which I currently hold, as the stance of ignorance.

Until I see T:V for myself and play it with my own hands, I will maintain my skepticism without shame or uncertainty. There is no shame in theorizing, and I shall bear none.

Damnit Benjamin. See the light!



That was not my intention, I was just saying that I agreed with you and my opinion changed after I played it so keep an open mind you long haired, hippy freak.

 

[Ben Reed]

That was not my intention, I was just saying that I agreed with you and my opinion changed after I played it so keep an open mind you long haired, hippy freak.

Fine, fine, whatever.

I just find it important to address any points you make, partially because I revel in cheap shots at you and your character whenever they present themselves, but mostly in this case because I feel that otherwise intelligent people who make excellent points have a bad habit of giving up the fight when a person of authority asserts an opposing view with an air of "Trust me, I know what I'm talking about."

I agree with the points and suggestions Zoolooman and other people have made about at least testing the 3-3-4 or 2-3-4 systems to see what kind of difference they make, and I would hate to see them abandon the well-constructed positions they made for themselves just because you say that everything's cool with 3-3-3.

If anything, with the upcoming T:V beta, it is more important than ever in the history of the franchise that we test game balance THOROUGHLY, or else we will end up, sooner or later, with an elitist, cheat-friendly mess like Tribes 1, or a buggy, inconsistent mess like T2.

No other FPS offers the freedom of ANYTHING that Tribes offers, and the less restrictions a game system is, the higher the possibilities for unbalancing elements. This hizzy must be tested THOROUGHLY, with all possibilities for balancing offense and defense addressed, or else the consequences may be dire for serious play.

 

[Blaze]

I like the idea of 3-3-4. No worries guys, its an open demo and its not like it would be hard to change it around a few times to see what works the best.

 

[Zoolooman]

Blaze - In theory, I agree. But generally, open betas are seen as demos rather than design test beds. It's very hard to get something radically different changed once a game enters open beta. Hell, back in the T1's closed beta when they altered the blaster, people got pissed silly and quit Tribes completely.

 

[enDless_Delirium]

Blaze - In theory, I agree. But generally, open betas are seen as demos rather than design test beds. It's very hard to get something radically different changed once a game enters open beta. Hell, back in the T1's closed beta when they altered the blaster, people got pissed silly and quit Tribes completely.

Further support for this: Blaze, you said it was an open demo. It's an open beta, not a demo. BETA