haha
if you could vote a guy temporary admin to kick a tk'er, you could just vote kick the f'n tk'er
if you could vote a guy temporary admin to kick a tk'er, you could just vote kick the f'n tk'er
T:V Anti TK-er elements?
- Thread starter Amadeus
- Start date
That hasn't worked in T2 for ages. One of the patches *long* ago fixed it. Even if someone leaves, and the vote passes the server won't let him rejoin until the 15 min kick thing is up. So in T2 there's zero benefit to leaving after a vote to kick is made, since if it passes you won't be able to rejoin for 10-15 minutes anyways.
Amadeu5 said:
Hopefully what can be done in T:V with the forgive/punish is to make it based on total ammount of life/hit points taken from you rather than if they killed you or not...
Say you get the forgive/punish option after a person has dealt enough damage on you to kill a full health medium armor...
That prevents you from getting punished for an accidental TK on someone with a sliver of health and also prevents the asshole who shoots himself with disk to get low health then chains you down to a sliver and waits for you to shoot him back.
Say you get the forgive/punish option after a person has dealt enough damage on you to kill a full health medium armor...
That prevents you from getting punished for an accidental TK on someone with a sliver of health and also prevents the asshole who shoots himself with disk to get low health then chains you down to a sliver and waits for you to shoot him back.
I'd be completely against any type of complaint based system (where x amount of complaints = kick). Especially for a game like tribes. Lets take a common example here, if I'm an HO raping a base, shooting mortars say into the entry way of the enemy base as ppl try to come in, what if a friendly HO comes in unannounced and dies to my mortar? What if this happens 3 times in a row? Do I deserve to be kicked? Absolutely not. (There are *plenty* of situations like this that happen in tribes as well).
All that's needed is an effective voting system, Truthfully T2's voting system worked extremely well. I never had any issues with rampant TK'ers in T2 due to the voting system. A vote system stops mindless complaint votes which can't see the situation, but lets obvious tk'ers and such get kicked with ease.
All that's needed is an effective voting system, Truthfully T2's voting system worked extremely well. I never had any issues with rampant TK'ers in T2 due to the voting system. A vote system stops mindless complaint votes which can't see the situation, but lets obvious tk'ers and such get kicked with ease.
GIMPbeowulf
Veteran X
Yeah, TKs in T2 are no big deal compared to other games.
Though I don't play HD often, when I do I regularly end up wiping out a spawn or two when fighting a HO just because they're so weak and you're just pumping out the firepower... usually nades so they can't use mines and they have a nice blast radius.
Though I don't play HD often, when I do I regularly end up wiping out a spawn or two when fighting a HO just because they're so weak and you're just pumping out the firepower... usually nades so they can't use mines and they have a nice blast radius.
Okay, guys, let's not be too dense.
The tag method is based on player input, not just 3 tags and you're out. So if players are feeling like you're being a spamming fuck and don't like it, they'll tag you on it when you TK them.
What's so wrong with that? If you're disrupting play 'that' much and you're obviously pissing people off, then you should play smarter and 'try' to avoid the circumstance.
Another thing, despite what you guys seem to think, if people wanted to kick you by means of a different method, they would. So, instead of being tag kicked, you'd probably be voted off.
Not to mention, if your intentions are good, when you accidently TK someone, chances are the player you TK'd wouldn't tag you. I mean, I could care less when someone TK's me if they're actually defending.
Also, let's not forget these are just ideas. 3 tags doesn't have to be 3 tags. This could be 10 unique tags or even 15 unique tags. Which, I would hope, would discern a base defender from a real TK.
The tag method is based on player input, not just 3 tags and you're out. So if players are feeling like you're being a spamming fuck and don't like it, they'll tag you on it when you TK them.
What's so wrong with that? If you're disrupting play 'that' much and you're obviously pissing people off, then you should play smarter and 'try' to avoid the circumstance.
Another thing, despite what you guys seem to think, if people wanted to kick you by means of a different method, they would. So, instead of being tag kicked, you'd probably be voted off.
Not to mention, if your intentions are good, when you accidently TK someone, chances are the player you TK'd wouldn't tag you. I mean, I could care less when someone TK's me if they're actually defending.
Also, let's not forget these are just ideas. 3 tags doesn't have to be 3 tags. This could be 10 unique tags or even 15 unique tags. Which, I would hope, would discern a base defender from a real TK.
ZProtoss said:
The point would be that it was up to the person you TK'd ... if it was accidental hopefully they wouldn't punish for it...
No matter what the system is you can never make it 100% fair... Think of how many times a vote has passed to kick someone when it was the guy initiating the vote that deserved to be kicked..
And I'm sure you could add in things like a mortor doesn't count in enemy territory and maybe the chaingun counts double since its 99% chance an intentional TK.. etc etc.
Everyone also has to realize that T1 and T2 have a much more mature playing audience, since the games are so old and mostly "hardcore" players are the only ones who still play. What Amadeu5 said above would go on for a looong time. Maybe have a combination of vote and punishtk, but no automatic kick for a certain number of punishtk's, just say how many they've had when the vote to kick is initiated. But then again, people who are destroying D might not get kicked because they have no punishtk's, and the other team who doesn't know that votes no (which is usually what happens anyway, even after tons of complaints over T). Nothing is perfect.
x66 said:
it's not clear to me how what you're describing is different from how things work in Enemy Territory - in which the tag system is abused by people who just file complaints by default.
in my opinion, it's a terrible idea to bet on the players in an online game to act based on intelligent thought. at least some modification that adds a larger peer review group into the equation would be preferable. for example, when a person gets a certain number of tags against him a vote to kick is started, as opposed to just being kicked immediately. but if that's the case, then it should be just as effective to use a good voting system (i agree with zp that t2's was fairly good).
Amadeu5 said:
all you have to do is make the vote kick pass and then it does the kick and puts a temp 5 min (or whatever) ban on the account #.
btw, why on earth would yo need to temp vote an admin for a kick anyway? if he only gets to be admin for one kick, he could just kick anyone he feels like. "well i could kick the Bob_TK but he's killing the other team and i'd rather kick their heavy O guy."
and why wouldn't you just vote someone a REAL admin ?
Well, like I said, if people would consider what they're doing before they do it, it'd make perfect sense. Since tagging is only possible upon actual TK, people might think about that before spamming and ruining the game for other players.
If we used unique tags, I think it'd be quite effective. I mean, what are the chances of someone that's playing a legit game actually accruing 10 unique TK's? Even if the TK's were unintentional, the player obviously doesn't care what the hell they're doing and is pissing MANY people off at this point and deserves to be kicked.
But yeah, I think a system like this could be used to auto-initiate a kick / ban as well. Seems like a decent idea.
If we used unique tags, I think it'd be quite effective. I mean, what are the chances of someone that's playing a legit game actually accruing 10 unique TK's? Even if the TK's were unintentional, the player obviously doesn't care what the hell they're doing and is pissing MANY people off at this point and deserves to be kicked.
But yeah, I think a system like this could be used to auto-initiate a kick / ban as well. Seems like a decent idea.
10 unique IDs still wouldn't fix the TKing. It'd only fix people who'd go after everyone. If someone only goes after 5 people, he won't be kicked. Complaint systems don't work, because as you say "yeah well if it was for something accidental I won't complain!", for every one of you, there's 10 people who will complain non-stop for no reason at all. So in reality, you could be having one of the finest pub performances ever, get a few tks, and a few people who have no clue could get you kicked without a vote. *very* dumb imo.
A T2 type voting system would be sufficent for weeding out TKs. I mean, one of the main reasons why voting in other games wasn't as effective was because it wasn't as easy to use for the average player. T2's voting system was great, you hit escape, right click on a player, and click vote to kick. Most other games aren't even close to that level of precision.
A T2 type voting system would be sufficent for weeding out TKs. I mean, one of the main reasons why voting in other games wasn't as effective was because it wasn't as easy to use for the average player. T2's voting system was great, you hit escape, right click on a player, and click vote to kick. Most other games aren't even close to that level of precision.
Ehh, I disagree.
I think a complaint system would be ideal. 3 tags, you're out, makes people play a smart game. A concious player just doesn't happen to accrue 3 unique tk tags. And in acctuality, I don't think 3 different people would tag someone, if they didn't feel the player was doing something wrong to begin with.
After playing Tribes for the last 5 years, I'd be hard pressed to say I ever TK'd people un-intentionally. If you play a smart game, this just doesn't happen. The random occurance happens, but shit, that's bound to happen.
It's not like the normal vote mechanism would have to be thrown out, in favor of this tag based system. They could work easily in conjunction.
And let's not forget the ease of the Tribes vote system, tab->playername->vote to kick->NO KICK BECAUSE NO ONE VOTES.
edit: To make this vote system even more dynamic, we could throw a time limit in there. Say 3 tags, per 5 minute span. At 5 mins, tag count resets.
And it should be obvious, this number 3 I keep throwing out is just an idea. To be effective, this system would need to rely on player counts on a per-team basis....
I think a complaint system would be ideal. 3 tags, you're out, makes people play a smart game. A concious player just doesn't happen to accrue 3 unique tk tags. And in acctuality, I don't think 3 different people would tag someone, if they didn't feel the player was doing something wrong to begin with.
After playing Tribes for the last 5 years, I'd be hard pressed to say I ever TK'd people un-intentionally. If you play a smart game, this just doesn't happen. The random occurance happens, but shit, that's bound to happen.
It's not like the normal vote mechanism would have to be thrown out, in favor of this tag based system. They could work easily in conjunction.
And let's not forget the ease of the Tribes vote system, tab->playername->vote to kick->NO KICK BECAUSE NO ONE VOTES.
edit: To make this vote system even more dynamic, we could throw a time limit in there. Say 3 tags, per 5 minute span. At 5 mins, tag count resets.
And it should be obvious, this number 3 I keep throwing out is just an idea. To be effective, this system would need to rely on player counts on a per-team basis....
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On one hand; some nights I will simply be in a bad mood when I come online. When someone tks me under any circumstances I get pissed and start a vote to kick.
But the tag system works ok in RTCW. Usually people refrain from complaining unless you do something stupid. Not intentional even, but stupid. And I am in favor of kicking idiots.
But the tag system works ok in RTCW. Usually people refrain from complaining unless you do something stupid. Not intentional even, but stupid. And I am in favor of kicking idiots.
Plenty of very smart and effective HO and HD would get booted out of games insanely fast with a tag method. If an HO is say in a corner of a base throwing mortars at the gens/invs (take SH for example), it isn't hard to see friendly HO getting tk'ed. The HO raping the base doesen't deserve to be penalized or kicked for it.
Lets not forget the issue of mines either. God forbid you get 1-2 random mine kills, + say you md a capper and some dumbass gets in the way. Woops, instantly kicked.
A complaint system would not make people "play smarter" as you say, people would play dumber and alot more reserved for fear of getting kicked. The overall skill level in pubs in several positions would decrease dramatically in such a system.
Lets not forget the issue of mines either. God forbid you get 1-2 random mine kills, + say you md a capper and some dumbass gets in the way. Woops, instantly kicked.
A complaint system would not make people "play smarter" as you say, people would play dumber and alot more reserved for fear of getting kicked. The overall skill level in pubs in several positions would decrease dramatically in such a system.
x66 said:
Anyways, the bottom line is a complaint system is an automatic kicking system that has no discretion at all. Sure players vote, but players will mindlessly vote yes in a *lot* of situations. Automatic kicking systems have no place in any online game. They don't work effectively, and they fuck up gameplay. A voting system is infinitely more effective. TK'ers never got away with anything no matter how they tried in T2 if they were blatantly tking. A similar system in T:V would work just as well.
If people are here bitching about the current methods, then something is obviously wrong.
It'd make people fear being kicked? You're damn right. People need to learn how to play at some point, don't they?
What it boils down to, is, people rely heavily on spam to gain points / win the current situation. You call that a 'smart' way to play the game? If anything, 'most' people would see this as a strategy and realize "hmm, i'm not going to tag this dipshit for spamming, because it's still helping our team win the game".
Fucking up the gameplay? Hardly. I'd much rather play with people that don't rely on spam to determine the outcome of the game.
And this would be a vote system. You're casting your vote when you choose to tag the sucker.
And you say the current t1 / t2 system are effective at ridding of a tk? I'll reinstall T2 to prove you wrong, but I can go join a T1 server right now and start TK'ing and probably stay there the match's length.
It'd make people fear being kicked? You're damn right. People need to learn how to play at some point, don't they?
What it boils down to, is, people rely heavily on spam to gain points / win the current situation. You call that a 'smart' way to play the game? If anything, 'most' people would see this as a strategy and realize "hmm, i'm not going to tag this dipshit for spamming, because it's still helping our team win the game".
Fucking up the gameplay? Hardly. I'd much rather play with people that don't rely on spam to determine the outcome of the game.
And this would be a vote system. You're casting your vote when you choose to tag the sucker.
And you say the current t1 / t2 system are effective at ridding of a tk? I'll reinstall T2 to prove you wrong, but I can go join a T1 server right now and start TK'ing and probably stay there the match's length.