socialism is good, SBC sucks.

SuperSniperX said:
cool. Cancel your Voice line, and switch to Cable or Mobile. Or you could switch to a WiFi ISP.

There are alternatives. If they aren't in your area... that isn't SBC's fault. We don't stop private companies from moving into an area, install some equipment and start offering shit. It's these private companies that don't deem it profitable.
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no, it is SBC's fault. they leverage their government-protected monopoly status to prevent other companies from running new wire or fiber and then they use their status as the only owners of the infrastructure to gouge competition over the their lines while selling their own service to undercut the competition's prices. do some research on it. or better yet, read the article.

it's also the FCC's fault. you'd have competition in cable modem service at this point if the FCC had classified cable modem service as a data service (which it is) and not a media service.
 
Philipsz said:
Congratulations! You have established beyond doubt that you really have no idea what my background is. Good job spewing insults for no reason from the safety behind your screen. You should talk to cogz more often, you are on the same level.
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no, you've established you don't have a clue.
 
Hey dumbass ever hear of AT&T? The Gov fucked them hard and that is why you have all the Bell companys. They didn't change a damn thing but butt fuck an ass load of people.
 
consultant said:
Hey dumbass ever hear of AT&T? The Gov fucked them hard and that is why you have all the Bell companys. They didn't change a damn thing but butt fuck an ass load of people.
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hey, dumbass, how about making a point?
 
cogzinofa said:
no, it is SBC's fault. they leverage their government-protected monopoly status to prevent other companies from running new wire or fiber and then they use their status as the only owners of the infrastructure to gouge competition over the their lines while selling their own service to undercut the competition's prices. do some research on it. or better yet, read the article.

it's also the FCC's fault. you'd have competition in cable modem service at this point if the FCC had classified cable modem service as a data service (which it is) and not a media service.
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Um no. SBC doesn't stop private companies from installing new Coax, (the cable companies do that) nor do they stop private companies from installing new Wifi gear and towers. They also don't stop private companies from sending up new satellites.
 
SuperSniperX said:
Um no. SBC doesn't stop private companies from installing new Coax, (the cable companies do that) nor do they stop private companies from installing new Wifi gear and towers. They also don't stop private companies from sending up new satellites.
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I didn't say SBC prevented companies from installing new coax, setting up WiFi AP, or sending up satellites tho I could have phrased it better.

and WiFI APs still need local land lines because they have to be hooked up somewhere and satellites aren't worth the trouble because of latency issues.

address the actual points.
1) SBC leverages its protected monopoly status to prevent the deployment of parallel competing services.
2) SBC fights hard to prevent competition on their wires/fiber
3) when they have to compete they undercut the competition and drag their feet on installs.
 
DruMAX said:
Less government the better IMO...Leave it alone unless they are a monopoly. I prefer to keep our inept government out of anything until they learn how to handle money and until our representatives start caring more about the people they are supposed to represent and less about enriching themselves at our expense.
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Right, because private business has always looked after the best interests of the public. Businessmen don't care about enriching themselves!

(owait)

I agree the government is inept and can't necessarily be trusted to run things, but your post was dying for a shot of perspective.

Philipsz said:
Congratulations! You have established beyond doubt that you really have no idea what my background is.
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So, what background do you need to have to make unrealistically simplified statements about the market? Plumber? Pimp? C'mon, big man, tell us where you learned to be this ignorant! :D
 
cogzinofa said:
I didn't say SBC prevented companies from installing new coax, setting up WiFi AP, or sending up satellites tho I could have phrased it better.

and WiFI APs still need local land lines because they have to be hooked up somewhere and satellites aren't worth the trouble because of latency issues.

address the actual points.
1) SBC leverages its protected monopoly status to prevent the deployment of parallel competing services.
2) SBC fights hard to prevent competition on their wires/fiber
3) when they have to compete they undercut the competition and drag their feet on installs.
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Why don't you just head over to the forums at dslreports and do a search. This argument has been done to death over there.

Cable companies, Mobile, wifi, and Sat to a lesser extent, are quickly becoming parallel competing services. They are all starting to offer overlapping services.

SBC does fight hard to stop from having to resell Fiber and wire that They installed, and that they paid for.

Dragging feet on installs is bull shit. When installs for a CLEC come through, they are usually first to be completed. Jesus, the things I have to do for CLEC's reselling our DSL Services. These little mom and pop ISP's that don't know the last thing about setting up their equipment. I've been forced to configure many a router for some little Hardware Store/ISP so that they can take business away from the service my company offers.

There is no clear cut answer to this. Multiple sides to this. I really don't feel like going into all the problems I have with the regulations we are forced to adhere to.

If you really are this worked up, like i said, go to www.dslreports.com and have a field day.
 
Xplo said:
Right, because private business has always looked after the best interests of the public. Businessmen don't care about enriching themselves!

(owait)

I agree the government is inept and can't necessarily be trusted to run things, but your post was dying for a shot of perspective.
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At least private companies have to compete to make that money and if they fail to satisfy another one can step in and possibly provide a better solution, give people a choice. As it is SBC does not prevent anyone from competing with them...if SBC fucks up enough then someone will step up and take thier place...with private co., because money and profit are so important, it causes then to compete...putting it in the hand of the government is not a good thing, just an opinion
 
SuperSniperX said:
Cable companies, Mobile, wifi, and Sat to a lesser extent, are quickly becoming parallel competing services. They are all starting to offer overlapping services.
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data rates, latency. they are not competing services.

SBC does fight hard to stop from having to resell Fiber and wire that They installed, and that they paid for.
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that they paid for with government subsidies and incentives (from the people) with government regulatory board assurances of payback. they took no risks.

Dragging feet on installs is bull shit. When installs for a CLEC come through, they are usually first to be completed. Jesus, the things I have to do for CLEC's reselling our DSL Services. These little mom and pop ISP's that don't know the last thing about setting up their equipment. I've been forced to configure many a router for some little Hardware Store/ISP so that they can take business away from the service my company offers.
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that's interesting because my DSL requests from third parties usually took longer to complete than SBC requests. This was also before SBC got slammed in a couple lawsuits.

Here's an example:
http://news.com.com/2100-1034_3-5053604.html?tag=cd_mh

There is no clear cut answer to this. Multiple sides to this. I really don't feel like going into all the problems I have with the regulations we are forced to adhere to.
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there is a solution: get rid of SBC and reduce them to common carrier status.
 
DruMAX said:
At least private companies have to compete to make that money and if they fail to satisfy another one can step in and possibly provide a better solution, give people a choice. As it is SBC does not prevent anyone from competing with them...if SBC fucks up enough then someone will step up and take thier place...with private co., because money and profit are so important, it causes then to compete...putting it in the hand of the government is not a good thing, just an opinion
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SBC does prevent companies from competing with them. They have a government protected monopoly and they lobby heavily against any plans to allow in third parties. other private companies can't step in and compete.
 
DruMAX said:
At least private companies have to compete to make that money and if they fail to satisfy another one can step in and possibly provide a better solution, give people a choice.
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Well, ideally, that's what happens. History is full of "better choices" that weren't embraced by the market and/or couldn't compete because of barriers of one kind or another.

The government is supposed to look after you, and doesn't. Private companies don't have to give a shit about you at all, as long as they have money. They both suck, really.
 
Xplo said:
So, what background do you need to have to make unrealistically simplified statements about the market? Plumber? Pimp? C'mon, big man, tell us where you learned to be this ignorant! :D
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If it is clear that somebody is a moron I don't talk to this person anymore, so don't expect any replies to your insults.
 
slinkeh said:
HJAHAH never heard anything so fucking dumb in my life .. yea ruthless competition doesnt lower prices :lol:
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There's no such thing as ruthless competition when 2 or 3 companies control almost all of the marketshare.

Sometimes I don't like the FCC telling Bell that smaller companies can use their lines, but sometimes I see why they let it happen.

That isn't to say Bells are in dire straits. They have huge leverage in government.
 
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