Trust me the USA will win in Iraq. I mean how can the strongest army in the world spending a LARGE military budget ever lose? Come on guys, have some faith in America...geez!
So how much will Iraq be changed with this new Defense dude....
- Thread starter Rev_Night
- Start date
Trust me the USA will win in Iraq. I mean how can the strongest army in the world spending a LARGE military budget ever lose? Come on guys, have some faith in America...geez!
Ooooh you so funnay.
But you know what I find funny as well?
You always get the guy who makes fun of the insurgents about their fighting skills, bad weapons, inexperience...blah...blah...blah
Alright, so if they suck so badly then why is the war still going on? Why has there been over 25,000 US casualties (wounded and dead)? Why can't the strongest army in the world with all the fancy technology secure Iraq on a whole? I can go on and on here...
So whats more comical? The fact that the "insurgents" suck ass as a fighting force or the fact that the US army cannot subdue them to this day?
But you know what I find funny as well?
You always get the guy who makes fun of the insurgents about their fighting skills, bad weapons, inexperience...blah...blah...blah
Alright, so if they suck so badly then why is the war still going on? Why has there been over 25,000 US casualties (wounded and dead)? Why can't the strongest army in the world with all the fancy technology secure Iraq on a whole? I can go on and on here...
So whats more comical? The fact that the "insurgents" suck ass as a fighting force or the fact that the US army cannot subdue them to this day?
Go look up the arguments that were prevelant during Vietnam.
Sounds like the same shit to me.
Not only did we lie our way to war, but we then attacked those who spoke the truth or questioned the President. This White House attacked people who are TRUE patriots and spent their entire lives in service to protecting america.
Even when Congress passed laws protecting whistleblowers, the Bush admin basically ignored the law and stated it wasnt to be implemented. Apparently he thinks the Constitution gives him that right over the legislative and judicial branches.
Aspects of this are dead horses... but given the reality of terrorism in this world and given the CONSEQUENCES of this incompetence for the entire world... and our own security, it's vital to keep this basic shit in mind and to stay angry.
But you know what I find funny as well?
You always get the guy who makes fun of the insurgents about their fighting skills, bad weapons, inexperience...blah...blah...blah
Alright, so if they suck so badly then why is the war still going on? Why has there been over 25,000 US casualties (wounded and dead)? Why can't the strongest army in the world with all the fancy technology secure Iraq on a whole? I can go on and on here...
So whats more comical? The fact that the "insurgents" suck ass as a fighting force or the fact that the US army cannot subdue them to this day?
Yea, they may not be trained like our troops are, but they receive all they need from Iran and the supply depots that were raided following the fall of Saddam, high explosives.
You can stop a bullet, but not even a tank can stop a few thousand pounds of TNT equivalent explosion going off under it. They may have found the most effective weapons of the 20th century, home made at that. Its concerning.
SecretSquirrel
Veteran XV
I will recount the words of another son of Jefferson: The longer we stay in Iraq, the better the dictator will be that finally takes over the country.
I have thought about what he said a little, and I believe he ment we will try to destroy the most oppresive and violent militias and groups in Iraq. We will then be left with more moderate groups that are not worth going after because they are not as violent or oppresive. They will get the country.
I don't think they will actually clear out civillians like they did in Vietnam and resettle them. I don't think they will take hills only to leave them to be retaken by the enemy a few days later. Its just not that war. The crucial battles of this war look, and will continue to look a lot more like the scenes from the movie Blackhawk Down.
I have thought about what he said a little, and I believe he ment we will try to destroy the most oppresive and violent militias and groups in Iraq. We will then be left with more moderate groups that are not worth going after because they are not as violent or oppresive. They will get the country.
I don't think they will actually clear out civillians like they did in Vietnam and resettle them. I don't think they will take hills only to leave them to be retaken by the enemy a few days later. Its just not that war. The crucial battles of this war look, and will continue to look a lot more like the scenes from the movie Blackhawk Down.
Hey do you remember the threads arguing about whether or not America was going to win in Iraq? That was right after the US invaded in 2003.
Maybe someone should make a thread asking all the PRO WAR people who defended the US invading Iraq and then saying that the US would win and time would tell. I wonder how many of those guys have changed their tunes?
I said back in 2003, that only time will tell if the US made the right decision and Bush made a mistake going into Iraq.
There is no single "they" and part of the reason americans in particular are so confused and frustrated is that there is ZERO clarity in our leadership when they speak about what is actually fuckin happening there.
Our own President talks as if "they" are the same as al qaeda, to this day.
There are a range of sunni groups, baathist sub-groups, shiite groups and then ultra-islamacist foreign groups. And the kurds aint even rolled up their sleaves yet.
In simplistic terms, i see it this way (im sure in practice, the dozens of different groups may overlap at times):
1. Baathist & Fedayeen, pro-saddam and ex-regime folks with nothing to lose. These are the best trained fuckers as a category, many coming out of the Iraqi military elite and having real commanders with access to proper arms.
2. Shiite militias. They taste power. They want power. Shiites are the majority of the people and were repressed under Saddam. They are persian in heritage and angry. Al-Mahd and Sadr are the most dangerous. They are very territorial.
3. Sunni militias. They may or may not be tied with baathists, but they generally are more arab-leaning and scared of Shiite power. They refuse to back down to what they see as Shiite abuses. They are the minority and arent about to "let things slide" so when somebody gets attacked, they get even.
4. Al qaeda & foreign jihadists. These people flooded into iraq after we invaded, to cause trouble and to play heroes. They do a lot of nasty attacks and have successfully stirred up animosities between shiite and sunnies.
We fucked up by allowing #1 and #4 to emerge as they did. We needed to integrate more of the Baathists into the new government and society, instead of treating them all as criminals. We disbanded the entire Iraqi military and then pretended it was smart to start a new one from scratch without reaching out to some of the previous military leaders. We scared all these people and their families, making them outcasts and criminals even if they hated Saddam just as much as others did. Stupid. Backs to the walls, it just fed the flames and radicalized the forces. Only NOW are we seriously reaching out to Baathists. We're talking doctors, lawyers, educators and bureacrats who may have worked in Saddam's regime and have priviledges by birth/tribe but who may have fully welcomed change.
We fucked up by allowing foreigners to flood into iraq.
It's mind-numbing that we didnt control the borders, control the ammo depots, etc. Nobdy in iraq trusts each other years later, so al qaeda types can blow up a mosque and just let the sunnis and shiites rip into each other while everybody blames the USA. It's sickening what we've ALLOWED here.
This isnt a completely fair argument... the "all the pro-war people were stupid" argument.
Why?
Because they were lied to. When our President gets up there and says that Saddam has a nuke program, intends to use it and is supporting terrorism... you cant entirely blame the people for believing him.
Sure, if they had cut through the media spin and read more in-depth on the subject then they may have had more suspicions as most people on earth had. But our mainstream media... the so-called "liberal media" was hyping up that war and parachuting their reporters in with helmets. Those who questioned this publicly were marginalized and spun off as radicals (you know, like the head of the US Arms Inspectors team in iraq or the top government nuclear scientists or our own intelligence gurus)
We were collectively acting insane because our leadership LIED to us. They lied to congressmen in private sessions. They lied to us openly and publicly. They ignored and buried all evidence and such which didnt fit their arguments/claims.
And emotionally we NEEDED to be serious about terrorism. That's what makes this so fuckin evil. We needed to be serious about fighting terrorism and our leaders abused their power, compromised national security and forced us into an INVASION of a nation having absolutely nothing to do with terrorism... and which made this worse.
Automatic Jack
Veteran X
Don't forget the theft.