Plane crashes into World trade Center

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/AV/Pagy said:
you are stupid...

Do you think those people are some sort of Satan's soldiers?

Or maybe the hate the US?
Do they have i reason?
Killing people is not the answer for killing people...

The sad part is that civilians are the ones you pay for government's squables...

No, I'm not.

And if you think that she's some sort of God's peaceful creature, I can say much the same about you. It's incredibly funny that you say killing people is not the answer for killing people. Maybe laughing and cheering at others' tragedies is the answer, eh?
 
/AV/Pagy said:
You are wrong.

Violence presipitates violence.
It may make you feel better, but a violent end does not kill the beast.

You will only make more people willing to die to kill more americans... which should scare us all.

You're right, we should let them know that we won't do anything, and they are free to do what they want to do to us.

Them willing to die to kill us Americans has nothing to do with us, you freak.
 
Wulfen said:
Them willing to die to kill us Americans has nothing to do with us, you freak.
No point in talking to you, you see violence as an answer, that's fine for you. Just keep in mind that is the same rationelle that the terrorists used.
In 10 years when they use a nuke in downtown LA, i'll be the first one to say 'i told you so'.

Going to a quote from my favourite movie:

"Never underestimate the power of denial."
-Alan Ball
 
/AV/Pagy said:
No point in talking to you, you see violence as an answer, that's fine for you. Just keep in mind that is the same rationelle that the terrorists used.
In 10 years when they use a nuke in downtown LA, i'll be the first one to say 'i told you so'.

Going to a quote from my favourite movie:

"Never underestimate the power of denial."
-Alan Ball

While your movie quote is from a great movie, your pacifist attitude concerns me and I am glad you are not in the decision making corner for our country. Not doing anything at all in this situation GUARANTEES one of those nukes will be set off here. Wake up.
 
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Kaden said:
While your movie quote is from a great movie, your pacifist attitude concerns me and I am glad you are not in the decision making corner for our country. Not doing anything at all in this situation GUARANTEES one of those nukes will be set off here. Wake up.
Well, your trigger happy attitude makes me sad. Plus, if you think there's a chance that they send suicide bombers at you now, you can gaurantee it after you level their city.

the more you kill, the more enemies you make. This isn't a hard concept.

Plus, nowhere did i say do nothing, btw. I dare you to find a quote where i did.
 
/AV/Pagy said:
Well, your trigger happy attitude makes me sad. Plus, if you think there's a chance that they send suicide bombers at you now, you can gaurantee it after you level their city.

the more you kill, the more enemies you make. This isn't a hard concept.

Plus, nowhere did i say do nothing, btw. I dare you to find a quote where i did.

Pagy, I have read your post on these boards often before. And on a very large varity of things, we simply do not agree on much of anything.

The fact of the matter is this. The rest of the free world is "at war" against terrorism, for real this time. This will be an ongoing operation that will last years and years.

By the way I said nothing of leveling cities, though some cities are gonna be damaged because this enemy lives among the people. In order to get to them we must too go among the people. Its gonna be ugly. More loss of life will follow. Sadly it is necessary. The way we go about preventing further attacks or atleast making it so that people think twice, is to squash the opposition, and when a new regime arises that would have the attitudes towards us or our allies we squash them too.

I am not a war monger, but I also am not so naive as to think we can sit behind our borders and hope it goes away.
 
If you kill them all, and severely hurt the countries that help them, you drastically decrease the pool of psychos that might cause a bombing int he first place. Plus you tell those countries that they need to do a lot of internal policing and work against terrorists just as much as us, or face the consequences.

Not retaliating will simply show that we are weak. I see no point in not retaliating.
 
Pagy, you're a very noble person, and I respect your belief and faith in peace.

But the realities of the situation is that our enemies have no respect for our lives. bin Laden, while it's not proven responsible, has already issued a religious edict calling for the killing of American civilians.

They are ready to perpetrate violence on us. That leaves us with 2 options:

a) Allow them to do whatever they want, holding the view that "killing is bad". That leads to a lot of dead Americans, and the ones responsible still alive to commit these atrocities another day. This, IMO, is clearly not viable.

b) Incapacitate their ability to do violence on us. Since we are dealing with fanatics, reason most likely will not work with them. We won't be able to "talk it out". The view becomes "killing is bad, but necessary", and force will have to be used.

There's no way around it. The mentality we are dealing with isn't going to respond to our 'nobility' or the value we place on life.

They're not going to wake up one day and go, "Gee, those americans sure love and respect life. I guess we shouldn't kill anymore of them".

The will hesitate or cease only out of fear. Fear that the consequences of their actions will be something that they are not willing to have happen.

We must now show them the consequences.
 
daerid46 said:
They are ready to perpetrate violence on us. That leaves us with 2 options:

a) Allow them to do whatever they want, holding the view that "killing is bad". That leads to a lot of dead Americans, and the ones responsible still alive to commit these atrocities another day. This, IMO, is clearly not viable.

b) Incapacitate their ability to do violence on us. Since we are dealing with fanatics, reason most likely will not work with them. We won't be able to "talk it out". The view becomes "killing is bad, but necessary", and force will have to be used.

There's no way around it. The mentality we are dealing with isn't going to respond to our 'nobility' or the value we place on life.

They're not going to wake up one day and go, "Gee, those americans sure love and respect life. I guess we shouldn't kill anymore of them".

The will hesitate or cease only out of fear. Fear that the consequences of their actions will be something that they are not willing to have happen.

We must now show them the consequences.
Now, imagine a terrorist saying that...
Because he already has, and flew a plane into a tower =/
 
/AV/Pagy said:
Now, imagine a terrorist saying that...
Because he already has, and flew a plane into a tower =/

Good point, but what I want to know is, what have we done to them that is equivalent?
 
/AV/Pagy said:
Well, your trigger happy attitude makes me sad. Plus, if you think there's a chance that they send suicide bombers at you now, you can gaurantee it after you level their city.

the more you kill, the more enemies you make. This isn't a hard concept.

Plus, nowhere did i say do nothing, btw. I dare you to find a quote where i did.

Trigger happy attitude??!? Who just flew jumbo jets into innocent civilians??

You need to fucking wake up. If I or my nation was trigger happy, they would have been gone(terrorists) a long time ago, eh?

Fucking listen up. Listen to all the countries in support of us and our actions. Including your own country. The enemies we have I have NO FUCKING interest in being friends with. Ok, got that? Got it? I'm not trigger happy, I want the solution FUCKING SOLVED. I don't fucking go around beating the crap out of anyone that gets in my way, nor do I fly FUCKING JUMBO JETS INTO CIVILIANS.

But stick to your misguided conceptions of me. By all means. And while you're at, please tell us since you are so wise in your years, what would you have us do?
 
If this has been posted already, I'm sorry... I just thought you would all want to read it. It's a story from Miami Herald writer Leonard Pitts.

"We'll go forward from this moment. It's my job to have something to say. They pay me to provide words that help make sense of that which troubles the American soul. But in this moment of airless shock when hot tears sting disbelieving eyes, the only thing I can find to say, the only words that seem to fit, must be addressed to the unknown author of this suffering. You monster. You beast. You unspeakable bastard. What lesson did you hope to teach us by your coward's attack on our World Trade Center, our Pentagon, us? What was it you hoped we would learn? Whatever it was, please know that you failed. Did you want us to respect your cause? You just damned your cause. Did you want to make us fear? You just steeled our resolve. Did you want to tear us apart? You just brought us together.

Let me tell you about my people. We are a vast and quarrelsome family, a family rent by racial, social, political and class division, but a family nonetheless. We're frivolous, yes, capable of expending tremendous emotional energy on pop cultural minutiae -- a singer's revealing dress, a ball team's misfortune, a cartoon mouse. We're wealthy, too, spoiled by the ready availability of trinkets and material goods, and maybe because of that, we walk through life with a certain sense of blithe entitlement. We are fundamentally decent, though -- peace-loving and compassionate. We struggle to know the right thing and to do it. And we are, the overwhelming majority of us, people of faith, believers in a just and loving God. Some people -- you, perhaps -- think that any or all of this makes us weak. You're mistaken. We are not weak. Indeed, we are strong in ways that cannot be measured by arsenals.

IN PAIN Yes, we're in pain now. We are in mourning and we are in shock. We're still grappling with the unreality of the awful thing you did, still working to make ourselves understand that this isn't a special effect from some Hollywood blockbuster, isn't the plot development from a Tom Clancy novel. Both in terms of the awful scope of their ambition and the probable final death toll, your attacks are likely to go down as the worst acts of terrorism in the history of the United States and probably, the history of the world. You've bloodied us as we have never been bloodied before. But there's a gulf of difference between making us bloody and making us fall. This is the lesson Japan was taught to its bitter sorrow the last time anyone hit us this hard, the last time anyone brought us such abrupt and monumental pain. When roused, we are righteous in our outrage, terrible in our force. When provoked by this level of barbarism, we will bear any suffering, pay any cost, go to any length, in the pursuit of justice. I tell you this without fear of contradiction. I know my people, as you, I think, do not. What I know reassures me. It also causes me to tremble with dread of the future. In the days to come, there will be recrimination and accusation, fingers pointing to determine whose failure allowed this to happen and what can be done to prevent it from happening again. There will be heightened security, misguided talk of revoking basic freedoms. We'll go forward from this moment sobered, chastened, sad. But determined, too. Unimaginably determined.

THE STEEL IN US You see, the steel in us is not always readily apparent. That aspect of our character is seldom understood by people who don't know us well. On this day, the family's bickering is put on hold. As Americans we will weep, as Americans we will mourn, and as Americans, we will rise in defense of all that we cherish. So I ask again: What was it you hoped to teach us? It occurs to me that maybe you just wanted us to know the depths of your hatred. If that's the case, consider the message received. And take this message in exchange: You don't know my people. You don't know what we're capable of. You don't know what you just started. But you're about to learn."
 
/AV/Pagy said:
If you don't know now, chances are you'll never know.

That was a question directed towards you. If you don't know, then please, just say so. I won't know unless somebody who does, tells me :ftard:
 
Wulfen said:
Pagy would've had us beg the Japanese for forgiveness after they bombed Pearl Harbor.
This smells of poop, since it just came out of your ass

International war is different from attacking radicals that give their lives to see you suffer.

A country can concede defeat, hatred and terrorism will only grow.
 
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/AV/Pagy said:
This smells of poop, since it just came out of your ass

International war is different from attacking radicals that give their lives to see you suffer.

A country can concede defeat, hatred and terrorism will only grow.

Amazingly you are correct, terrorism and hatred will only grow. We can stand around and let it happen or do whatever we can to prevent the hatred from taking the form of further terrorist attacks of this magnitude. Choose you side.
 
:soapbox:

i have lived a pacifistic (is that even a word?) lifestyle..... i have only been in one fight my entire life, i dont even hunt animals cause i cant bring myself to kill something for crying out loud (note: this does not mean i have a problem with hunting, hey we do need to eat y'know), but even i see that retaliation MUST happen.... radicals cannot be reasoned with, they WILL NOT offer any peace accord, the only solution left is a show of force... yes, ANY death is tragic, YES, i would love if our civilization could move beyond shit like this... but they KILLED INNOCENT PEOPLE by the THOUSANDS..... God, Allah, or whomever they believe in have mercy on their souls, for WE WILL NOT

:armed:

:rocket:

:sniper:
 
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