KnightMare
Veteran X
destroying an american ally in the middleeast makes perfect sense in fighting terrorism!
[lebanon] die christians die!!!!
- Thread starter TseTse
- Start date
Phantred said:
Fair question.
CLIFFS:
- Hezbollah is a shiite movement that started in 1985 to resist Israeli occupation of Lebanon in the 1980s (Israeli military killed many, many thousands of civilians). It has a small militant/terrorist wing and also huge political/humanitarian branches. They are shiite fundamentalists and would like to turn Lebanon into some form of Iranian-styled islamacist nation.
- Lebanon is 35-40% christian, about 30-35% shiite muslim, about 25% sunni muslim and then about 5% druze. It's historically a christian nation which has been swarmed with palestinian refugees and syrian immigrants over the past 40 eyars.
- Hezbollah is supported by Iran and Syria (who had military occupation over Lebanon until last year).
- Israeli military claims that Hezbollah has about 1000-2000 core militants. They have about 10,000 Katyusha rockets, hundreds of Faijrs missiles, a dozen or two Zelzal missiles and a good chunk of C-802 cruise missiles.
- Syria was forced to withdraw from Lebanon under massive international pressures and especially after the assassination of the main reformer politician. USA has stepped into this vacuum and embraced Lebanon as a major ally and as a key to the war on terror. Lebanese officials just helped the USA stop a major al qaeda attack on New York City tunnels. USA has an interest in stabilizing Lebanon after years of civil war... and keeping Syrian influence out.
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Special---K said:
wait, what the fuck?
You dont know who I have been arguing for or against probably beyond this thread. You seriously have no fucking ground to point from, so back the fuck off that idea.
Hezbollah is not comprised of professional soldiers. Your perspective is so fucking warped that you really have no clue as to what Hezbollah actually is.
WIKIPEDIA: Hezbollah
I can deal with your criticism of Israel, but it's hard to not question your opinion when Israel is wrong no matter what. This thread is a perfect example, first you claim the targets have nothing to do with Syria- and after shown that they indeed do, you claim that Syria isn't sending weapons anymore. Even if they weren't sending weapons, it doesn't mean they won't tomorrow or the day after, the objective of isolating Beirut is still important.
You want Israel to jeopardize the entire operation because civilians will die. But civilians dying is a simple but painful reality of war. If you're an anti-war person and against all wars that's fine, but don't pretend Israel is different than any other country at war with nonsense like these roads and bridges. I doubt it's any different than what any other country would do in their position. I think isolating Beirut, or at least cutting off Syria from Lebanon would be a no-brainer.
You want Israel to jeopardize the entire operation because civilians will die. But civilians dying is a simple but painful reality of war. If you're an anti-war person and against all wars that's fine, but don't pretend Israel is different than any other country at war with nonsense like these roads and bridges. I doubt it's any different than what any other country would do in their position. I think isolating Beirut, or at least cutting off Syria from Lebanon would be a no-brainer.
Sweet. I took your advice and wiki'd old hezy.
Looks like it is lebanese citizens.
So why is everybody up in arms about lebanese citizens getting killed? Or their precious bridges being destroyed?
Are the rockets fired by these lebanese citizens aimed at israeli military targets only?
Looks like it is lebanese citizens.
So why is everybody up in arms about lebanese citizens getting killed? Or their precious bridges being destroyed?
Are the rockets fired by these lebanese citizens aimed at israeli military targets only?
Phantred said:
Here's a good look at Hezbollah, and their motives. To answer your question, yes I do believe they're mostly Lebanese citizens.
www.stratfor.com
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Here's the big picture...
ABout 12-15% of the world muslims are from the shia branch. Sunnis, the main branch, doesnt really recognize Shiites as legitimate muslims. Most arabs are sunni and see Shiites as persian religious wackos.
THis is the big picture in terms of what's really going on here. Notice that Iran is the core for Shiite political and financial support. Iran is a theocracy based on the shiite fundamentalist world-view... a revolution that came about partially cuz of USA fuckin around with their nation.
ABout 12-15% of the world muslims are from the shia branch. Sunnis, the main branch, doesnt really recognize Shiites as legitimate muslims. Most arabs are sunni and see Shiites as persian religious wackos.
THis is the big picture in terms of what's really going on here. Notice that Iran is the core for Shiite political and financial support. Iran is a theocracy based on the shiite fundamentalist world-view... a revolution that came about partially cuz of USA fuckin around with their nation.
Everything and everyone says "mostly lebanese citizens" for a few reasons.
1. It's a bunch of god damned lebanese citizens
2. The full team roster is surely in some goats ass
3. It just doesn't sound good to admit 'hezbollah' is 'a bunch of israeli HATING lebanese citizens' when you are crying about the poor lebanese people's bridges.
Just my observation though.
1. It's a bunch of god damned lebanese citizens
2. The full team roster is surely in some goats ass
3. It just doesn't sound good to admit 'hezbollah' is 'a bunch of israeli HATING lebanese citizens' when you are crying about the poor lebanese people's bridges.
Just my observation though.
Phantred, focus on the facts instead of circular logic and straw men arguments.
Oh stop exagerating my points and trying to make this about me... seriously, you're smart enough to be more god damned sincere and intelligent.
You didnt show shit about those targets being justified, btw... and you have nothing to base your flaming of me on... except for hyperbole and speculation. Go ahead, respond to the points i made on this issue instead of flaming me... i dare you.
Sorry, but israel does deserve criticism and you cant change that by attacking all the people who see the truth...
"Israel is wrong no matter what" - oh god... the drama!!!
How about you admit sometimes Israel is wrong and we leave it at that...
SweetbabyJ said:
Oh stop exagerating my points and trying to make this about me... seriously, you're smart enough to be more god damned sincere and intelligent.
You didnt show shit about those targets being justified, btw... and you have nothing to base your flaming of me on... except for hyperbole and speculation. Go ahead, respond to the points i made on this issue instead of flaming me... i dare you.
Sorry, but israel does deserve criticism and you cant change that by attacking all the people who see the truth...
"Israel is wrong no matter what" - oh god... the drama!!!
How about you admit sometimes Israel is wrong and we leave it at that...
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these raghead muslims are too entrenched in the leb govt and have too much power... im not surprised israel is bombing these places despite it being a partially christian state...
if they want leb to deal with these hizbollah fucks it has to be a christian state.. just like northern ireland used to be a protestant state pitted against catholics.. power sharing = weak state.. weak states are weak and do nothing.. (duh lol)
the us should back leb to be a christian state and fund it with all the top military equipment.. this way a) they take heat off israel because a new bad guy is in town (christians) and b) hizbollah get taken out by a working leb govt that can actually do something.. because a nice new evil christian ran state will be quite happy to assert its authority by bombing raghead islamic nutters in the south of their own country..
im such an evil fuck but hey.. divide and rule is tired and tested
if they want leb to deal with these hizbollah fucks it has to be a christian state.. just like northern ireland used to be a protestant state pitted against catholics.. power sharing = weak state.. weak states are weak and do nothing.. (duh lol)
the us should back leb to be a christian state and fund it with all the top military equipment.. this way a) they take heat off israel because a new bad guy is in town (christians) and b) hizbollah get taken out by a working leb govt that can actually do something.. because a nice new evil christian ran state will be quite happy to assert its authority by bombing raghead islamic nutters in the south of their own country..
im such an evil fuck but hey.. divide and rule is tired and tested
TseTse said:
I told you every news story I read claimed these roads linked Syria with Lebanon? Have you read anything about this, or just one paragraph from one source? Go to google news, type in lebanon bridges bombing and you'll probably get 100 stories related to the topic in this thread.
Of course it's going to be about you if continously cloud the picture with threads like this.
Phantred said:
No, the rockets fired by Hezbollah are pretty much ONLY aimed at Israeli neighborhoods. The aiming of these rockets is so hap-hazrd that there is no telling where they will land. The militants basically pick a direction and let them go. They have a range of 50 miles or so.
Many of the Lebanese citizens getting killed by Israel's airstrikes are not affiliated with Hezbollah, or if they are, are not of the militant wing.
Tse Tse and Gallium are arguing that Isreal's attacks in Lebanon are too wreckless and/or that Israel is explicitly trying to harm Lebanese civilians by destroying thier city infrastructures and bombing civilian buildings.
Others (myself included) are arguing that Israel is being as careful as it can be about civilian casualties while still trying to maintain an offensive against the force that IS targeting Israeli civilians everyday. It is a war and civilian casualties happen. Nobody likes it but no other forces in the history of mankind have taken the kind of steps necessary to prevent civilian harm during armed conflict than the US and Israel.
Hezbollah is not officially affiliated with the Lebanese government, so that government has no real power over its actions. It's military is also far too weak to deal with the militants themselves, therefore the Hezbollah militants have pretty much free reign to do whatever they want around the country. They fire rockets at Israeli civilians and then go into hiding. Israel cannot plead with the Lebanese government to try to control Hezbollah because they are too weak to do it. Isreal has decided to take measures into its own hands.
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SweetbabyJ said:
I've read half a dozen articles and there remains absolutely no fuckin evidence that Syria was actively using these roads to "re-supply" hezbollah. Any fuckin HONEST fool can figure out that they wouldnt be using a north coastal road through christian areas... filled with refugees and UN humanitarian types... to re-supply hezbollah THROUGH beirut... magically into southern lebanon across roads that no longer exist.
Stop spewing the bullshit progadanda and think about it.
Israeli military claims that Hezbollah has about 1000-2000 core militants. They have about 10,000 Katyusha rockets, hundreds of Faijrs missiles, a dozen or two Zelzal missiles and a good chunk of C-802 cruise missiles.
These guys are in known locations in southern lebanon. Bombing roads in norther lebanon right now has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with stopping hezbollah or saving their 2 soldiers. It's blatantly bullshit.
All these attacks on Lebanon have done NOTHING to stop these militants. What it has done is destabilize the nation, hurt civilians and empower Syria.
According to you guys, all these attacks through-out Lebanon for 3 weeks have been some brilliant Israeli military strategy to destroy Hezbollah. Hezbollah has actually not been harmed and has increased their rocket attacks on Israel. Meanwhile, Israel fucked up Lebanon and also fucked up tons of opportunities to leverage the situation against Syria with the support of the USA.
Israel has killed a few hundred hezbollah (maybe)... and i assure you these 900+ civilian deaths will help Hezbollah recruit twice as many new people as Israel has killed.
Special---K said:
Yes, which happens to fit a 40 year pattern of Israel military behavior in Lebanon, Golan Heights, Gaza and the West Bank... for those paying attention.
None of this has ever made Israel more secure... and in fact always seems to make things worse in the region.
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KnightMare
Veteran X
god damn christians, always supporting muslim terrorist.
TseTse said:
I just don't care about those people, israeli, muslim, chrsitian, whatever. Anyone who believes EITHER of them are RIGHT is a fucking idiot.
peta can't just start a 'militia' and start firing rockets at mexico because of cockfighting. If AMERICAN CITIZENS commit ACTS OF WAR the attacked country has every right to defend itself.
Hezbellah is MADE UP OF, and SUPPORTED by the lebanese people. I just don't understand anyone's compassion for them.
Although I am annoyed that israel bothers with them. This should be a war between lebanon and israel, not israel and 'certain lebanese citizens whom cannot be identified or destuingished against'
TseTse said:
So is that your way of admitting that they do link Syria with Lebanon? Now it's a bad military decision because you have some crazy idea that isolating all major roads from Beirut isn't useful? You know that Hezbollah couldn't possibly get supplies through the northen part of the country. Are you implying that the UN humanitarians, the christians or the refugees would stop them? Israel is betting on none of the above.
Israel is targetting Hezbollah militants and weapons all around Lebanon. Why do you keep to the assumption that any re-arming or supplying of Hezbollah would be going to the south of the country?
This conflict covers more than just the border zone and Israel is taking the opportunity to wipe out it's enemy anywhere they can be found. No one is pretending that this is just about freeing the 2 captured soldiers. It never was. Exploiting the opportunity to eliminate a threat is a sound strategy.
This conflict covers more than just the border zone and Israel is taking the opportunity to wipe out it's enemy anywhere they can be found. No one is pretending that this is just about freeing the 2 captured soldiers. It never was. Exploiting the opportunity to eliminate a threat is a sound strategy.