[Feedback] Air Movement

R

random

Veteran XX
Or lack thereof..

Hopefully it's not already a burnt out topic, as searching for Movement/Physics topics didn't return any on-topic results.

I've noticed that there appears to be little to no air movement or responsiveness whatsoever, when traveling at speeds that exceed 'walking speed' in T:V.

Regardless of the amount of jetpack you use trying to change directions. Your destination, and how you get there, is going to be governed majorly by the shape of the terrain on the way there.

One of the 'selling points' of Tribes has always been freedom of movement, especially 3d movement. While the "3d" portion has been covered by the [strike]jetpack[/strike] spaceshuttlepack that constantly wants to break through the upper atmosphere. It lacks horizontal movement while you're in the air, and feels way too unnatural.

For further proof that the jetpack is extremely 'vertically unbalanced'. Tap your Ski/Jump key for a split second, then tap your Jet key for a split second too (ensure it's bound to Jet, and not JumpJet). When in other Tribes games, it'd simply make you hover a few centimetres off the ground unless you jumped before hand.
Anyway, enough ranting:

- The Jetpacks 'vertical movement' needs to be substituted/balanced with the addition of some 'horizontal movement'
- The Jump key should jump higher than 2cm off the ground, when tapping the Jet key for under 10ms makes you go higher
- Controlled Falls are now better known as "Controlled Floats", as whenever you hit Jetpack, you start to rise vertically again, instead of simply slowing your downward velocity. (Jetpacks vertical thrust is overpowered in comparison to its horizontal thrust)

The point of this thread wasn't so much to voice my opinion, as it was to get a discussion started regarding the lack of Air Movement in the game, before it becomes too late to amend.
 
random said:
Or lack thereof..

Hopefully it's not already a burnt out topic, as searching for Movement/Physics topics didn't return any on-topic results.

I've noticed that there appears to be little to no air movement or responsiveness whatsoever, when traveling at speeds that exceed 'walking speed' in T:V.

Regardless of the amount of jetpack you use trying to change directions. Your destination, and how you get there, is going to be governed majorly by the shape of the terrain on the way there.

One of the 'selling points' of Tribes has always been freedom of movement, especially 3d movement. While the "3d" portion has been covered by the [strike]jetpack[/strike] spaceshuttlepack that constantly wants to break through the upper atmosphere. It lacks horizontal movement while you're in the air, and feels way too unnatural.

For further proof that the jetpack is extremely 'vertically unbalanced'. Tap your Ski/Jump key for a split second, then tap your Jet key for a split second too (ensure it's bound to Jet, and not JumpJet). When in other Tribes games, it'd simply make you hover a few centimetres off the ground unless you jumped before hand.
Anyway, enough ranting:

- The Jetpacks 'vertical movement' needs to be substituted/balanced with the addition of some 'horizontal movement'
- The Jump key should jump higher than 2cm off the ground, when tapping the Jet key for under 10ms makes you go higher
- Controlled Falls are now better known as "Controlled Floats", as whenever you hit Jetpack, you start to rise vertically again, instead of simply slowing your downward velocity. (Jetpacks vertical thrust is overpowered in comparison to its horizontal thrust)

The point of this thread wasn't so much to voice my opinion, as it was to get a discussion started regarding the lack of Air Movement in the game, before it becomes too late to amend.
Click to expand...


Yes, I really agree with Random on this issue. It was the first thing I noticed was you get alot more vertical motion when jetting then horizontal. They could be tweaked just a bit but nothing to extreme.
 
Also: FYI the Irrational-AU art team all deserve a payrise. The maps/textures/buildings/player+weapon models/skies are both original, and incredibly well designed.
It can sometimes be hard to tell which direction a player is facing without zooming, but aside from that, the art definitely makes the game stand out from other crap on the market.
 
just my thoughts:

while air control while skiing has been lowered, control while you aren't moving as fast (say, in a duel) seems to have been exponentially increased

sniping duelers is so much harder now than it used to be :[
 
The powerful jets worry me a bit. I'm going to hold judgement until I play the game, but anyone who played Outwars knows that strong jets can be hard to handle sometimes.

Come to think of it, in Outwars you could jet farther if you jetted in short bursts than if you used up all your energy at once. Anyone care to test if this is true in T:V?
 
Jump is so weak, I dont' understand why they left it in the game. I'd really like to see a stronger jump.

And yeah, there not enough vertical thurst when you jet and press a direction key. Actually, come to think of it maybe there is just too much upward thrust. I totally agree on this. it need some fixing.
 
and who said it had to be like t1 and t2?

thats the problem with this game - its called tribes but its 'not' t1 or t2

so your getting players who dont like tribes not touching it and players who have to have tribes not liking it because its not the same!
 
We're comparing it to T1 and T2 in that aspect because that system is good, and as far as I can tell the new system is worse. You can't dismiss any complaint with the "new game" argument.
 
WerTicus said:
and who said it had to be like t1 and t2?

thats the problem with this game - its called tribes but its 'not' t1 or t2

so your getting players who dont like tribes not touching it and players who have to have tribes not liking it because its not the same!
Click to expand...
Keep it constructive and on topic.

The .config files appear to control nearly (or probably) everything movement related, so hopefully we'll see some beneficial modifications to the physics without too many renegades/shifter clones spawning.
 
Q: Is there a way to re-execute an edited .config file via console to save having to restart Tribes?

Hopefully one that isn't blatantly obvious like exec("Light.config"); or something
 
Amadeu5 said:
We're comparing it to T1 and T2 in that aspect because that system is good, and as far as I can tell the new system is worse. You can't dismiss any complaint with the "new game" argument.
Click to expand...

:signed:
 
I agree. There is good mobility while hardly moving, but when trying to slow down while flying at a good clip by pushing backwards and jetting gets you hardly no where but further up, and then out of jets.

I beleieve this is the real reason people are saying they don't have enough jets. It's not that, it's that they are depleting them trying to move in the air and not getting anywhere.

Right now, TV jets are only good for going up and hitting a ski route to move forward. It's forcing me to want the forward momentum of the e pack boost in all of my setups.
 
I totally agree with Random. This is the only real flawI see in this game. The gravity/jetting/skiing just feels way too floaty and overall "weird". I think the combination of the gravity/ x:y issues and the jets contribute to it. It's very apparent when you drop down, it feels like you're on the moon.

These are big issues to me and I suspect it's the same for many other other players. Why can't they just make these settings just like the ones in T1?? :/ I probably won't buy this game if this remains the same, since these elements are what made t1 so much fun and addictive: freedom and speed of movement. :cat:
 
god can people seriously shut the hell up with the "its a new game" crap.

just because something is new, doesn't make it good.

This thread presents well thought out and argued points, don't drag it down with that nonsense "its new therefore you cannot compare it to anything".


I have only limited play time thus far, so I cant really personally comment to the extend i'd like, but I'd definitely support the ideas presented in the original post. I don't really have much new to add except that I agree with random.

Falling onto a route really should feel like falling, not as described "controlled floating". While a true Tribes game requires a level of control in the air, you really should feel like you're right out on the edge, pushing your abilities to the limit, where one mistake will cost you.

With the powerful vertical motion you have a constant get out of jail free card. You don't have the feeling that you're hurtling towards the ground, barely riding the razors edge to hit the right point and gain speed without damage.

This feeling is imo, part of what tribes is really about.
 
|vm| said:
I totally agree with Random. This is the only real flawI see in this game. The gravity/jetting/skiing just feels way too floaty and overall "weird". I think the combination of the gravity/ x:y issues and the jets contribute to it. It's very apparent when you drop down, it feels like you're on the moon.

These are big issues to me and I suspect it's the same for many other other players. Why can't they just make these settings just like the ones in T1?? :/ I probably won't buy this game if this remains the same, since these elements are what made t1 so much fun and addictive: freedom and speed of movement. :cat:
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i agree with you far too often for it to be healthy.
To me it feels like a version of T2 classic beta i was testing out. (that goes for the maps too :( )
 
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This may be better suited in its own thread. But has anyone noticed that the lack of responsiveness when skiing appears to be simply caused by a "lowered friction" (characterSkiFriction = 0) skiing implementation?
It's much more noticeable after modifying some of the .config files, then going back to a Vanilla Tribes:V server, and skiing around for a map-cycle or two.
If any of you have ever played Half-Life, and set sv_friction to 0, you'll know what I'm referring to. It's like being on a thin layer of ice, rather than jumping repeatedly off the terrain, ala Tribes 1/2, which in-turn gives no response or kick-back to the player at all.

i.e Try to ski in a straight direction, then hold left/right without jetting (as you'll go directly up), and see if it makes you go anywhere but straight.

I understand that this is probably simply how Irrational has chosen to implement skiing, although it seems like more of a "hack" which allows to UT engine to support "skiing" than a new type of skiing altogether to me.

I've also noticed that air movement seems to be 5-directional instead of full 360^2 type movement. Tribes:V doesn't seem to allow you to strafe much whatsoever in midair while you hold Forward + Left/Right, and you have to let go of one of the two. Similar to what happens if you try to hit too many keys simultaneously on a keyboard with a low key-buffer.
Meaning that you've only really got 5 movement keys while in midair, as any attempts to "Jet down" (which is sort of an oxymoron) like in T1 are unsuccessful. I'm sure others know what I mean by "Jet down" though. As I'm beginning to repeat what I stated in my original post.

[BUG]:
I'm not sure if Irrational is currently aware of this or not (here's hoping one of them reads this thread). But there appears to be no difference at all between the "Jump/Jetpack" and regular "Jetpack" binds, both Jump/Jet you. I came across it when simply changing the characterJumpImpulse variable, as instead of jetting normally, the "Jetpack" bind jumps you before hand (set it to >1000 and you'll see what I mean)
 
That's an easy fix then, just make ski friction higher. I never thought that not losing any speed when skiing on flat terrain made too much sense anyway...
 
The desparity between holding down the jet and going verticle is not in tune with holding foward and jetting. Its super easy to gain altitude only holding jet, but while pushing foward, its hard to climb. But yes it basically comes down to evening out verticle and horizontal thrust.
 
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