Crom's T:V Impressions from GDC

[Yogi]

If people would stop arguing for the sake of arguing then maybe there'd be less ignorance and missinformation.

 

[z0dd]

I'm pleased to hear T:V won't be clone of either T1 or T2, which would bore me in a new Tribes game. Take note of the word "me".

With everyone having different expectations about the game, the dev team cannot possibly appease everyone. Any change or addition will be lauded by some, and panned by others. This is the nature of gamers.

Having met, and worked for/with both Thrax and KP, I feel comfortable that the (mp) game is in the hands of those who have been around for every "good" and "bad" moment in Tribes.

/recloak

 

[Crom]

I have played it multiple times on multiple builds for many hours. And I look forward to every second I can play it even more because there is still a learning curve there and that is what drives me in a game.

Sure, it has problems. It isn't finished yet. However, it is on the right track. Do I agree about the TL? No. Do I agree about the Rep Kit? No. Do I whine and kick and scream? No. Everytime I hear about something new, I comment on it and give my reasons why. Those reasons are considered and may be tossed out because they were already thought of or are outweighed.

KP and Thrax and Ed Orman and Experimental and everyone at Irrational know how to make fun games with DEPTH. Look at System Shock 2 and look at Freedom Force. Both games were amazingly fun and had exponential depth in how you played them. Give the benefit of the doubt, wait for beta and make up your mind then.

CERTAINLY comment on what you see wrong, but have reasons beyond "It is fundemental to Tribes" because there is not a single person in the world that can agree on every aspect of Tribes that is what makes it what it is.

this post is what it is all about. I have tried, every other page or so, to tell everyone how DAMN EXCITING it is to see T:V moving in what I consider the right direction.

Was the game fun? very much so
Was I amazed at the quality of the game? you fudgeing bet
Do I think all this jerking about Rep. Kits is valid? A small portion, yes...but to this extent, no.
Thrax, KP, Ed, and the rest of the Irrational Posse ALREADY have me a complete believer in their ability to make this game right.

From the point of view of someone who played, and still plays T1 WAY too much, this game is going to be the win. and it will be tribes. and all will rejoice.

 

[Splat]

Hey guys, I was able to play T:V at GDC as well. Christ I have no idea how Thrax deals with you guys. To me, the game feels awesome. It's definitely Tribes, but something feels fresh and new about it. Yep.

 

[Ixiterra]

This is TW, if you make a claim that 1+1=2, we'll argue it's 3 until you go insane, kill your whole family, chop them up into little pieces, and send a complimentary can of "Tribal Spam!" to every TW member; which they would then consume and as a result spawn a new race of pandas which would eventually take over the world, crucify george bush on the front lawn of the white house and crown Thax I of the mighty Empire... and so the Tribes saga begins.

It is 3 you fudg[strike]e[/strike]ing idiot!

 

[Dud]

Thanks for your impressions, Crom.

This thread has so much repetition that I cannot believe I read the whole thing.
I must say, I appreciate your patience Thrax. And in all seriousness, I though the posts yourself and KP made were very informative and I just wanted to know that some of us really do appreciate the info. <3

+ i would like to add that in this thread exists so much really useless whining that i almost muted couple of 'veterans'.

 

[Crom]

Hey guys, I was able to play T:V at GDC as well. Christ I have no idea how Thrax deals with you guys. To me, the game feels awesome. It's definitely Tribes, but something feels fresh and new about it. Yep.

exactly

 

[Ixiterra]

exactly

Open beta or it didn't happen.

 

[KillerONE]

It's cool to hear T1 players that LOVE it (Crom and Splat) and T2 players (Dirmax and Biomodd). Definately sounds like they are on the right track.. Independtly verified by 4 random community members from both T1 and T2 camps!

Yay!

 

[Darkfire]

Thanks for your impressions, Crom.

This thread has so much repetition that I cannot believe I read the whole thing.
I must say, I appreciate your patience Thrax. And in all seriousness, I though the posts yourself and KP made were very informative and I just wanted to know that some of us really do appreciate the info. <3

uhu

 

[GIMPbeowulf]

I can tell from your post that you were horrible at SC and missed the depth of my post. The only time a newbie would "do well" doing nothing but trying to get bcs/carriers would be if he was playing against players equally as shazbotty who have literally *zero* concept of the game.

Saying WC3 is easier for new players is ridiculous. Seeing as WC3 has no complicated macro element to learn, lots of high health units that lend themselves to being more forgiving of errors, no real drop element, no real cloak threat, etc etc. WC3 is by *far* the more newbie friendly game. It has way less things to learn and know about than SC.

The reason why WC3 sucked at higher competitive levels is because of the incredibily bad combo of heros, an ultra restrictive supply cap, and mines being mined to the max with only 5 workers. That alone removed the following from most games: Non-stop harassing drops, splitting up units to harass, going specifically after gold workers, and many more. It also reduced the importance of expanding in the game. Expanding is certainly still important, but not nearly to the degree that it held in SC. Combine all those facts together (not to mention a lack of very hard counters), and you've taken out most of the pressure and back and forth play between players. Add in the very *very* neutered macro game, and creeps to the mix, and the game plays even worse. (But its very easy for new players to learn).


At any rate, getting back to the main point, it is *much* much easier for new players to learn, play and do well in war3 as compared to SC. Seeing as the only things they have to worry about is ultra simple macro, simple micro, building heros, simple teching and simple creeping. In SC, a newbie vs even a *somewhat* decent player cannot tech or dream of getting *close* to bcs or carriers. He'd be dead long before.

I can see your way of looking at it and you make some good points.
Oh and just to clarify, I'm not talking about broodwar or frozen throne, didn't like broodwar (don't really care for super units) and don't own the other.

You are right that I was never a great starcraft player, didn't play on any ladders or compete seriously, but I did have a clue. I wasn't insisting that rushing to BCs or carriers would work 1v1 either, I'm saying that in the right situation it would give a new player a chance to be effective. You can't deny that in a 3v3 game of bgh if some terrain blockades his enterence and goes straight for cruisers/carriers while spreading some missile turrets or photons around and maintaining a small defense force that there's a decent chance he will make it... especially if his allies keep people busy. Granted, that type of game is not where you'll find a ton of good players but the fact stands that a lot of peeps play that type of game.

I also used the zergling rush as an example of how a new player could quickly succede.

I'm not saying these are good strategies and am certainly not saying they're guaranteed means of succes, just saying that at times they will get someone a win.

 

[Amadeus]

at how large this thread got over one night. Oh well, after reading half of Pumpkin's long winded post on page 12(?), I got pretty convinced that there are no more points that could be listed... if anyone knows of any, please list the number of the page/post, will you?


Anyway...

Let me address these one at a time

1. Deployable Slot. This works just like a weapon slot. Pick up a deployable and it shows up right next to your weapons with your keyboard binding right on it to let you know how to select it. It then deploys by "firing" it into the ground. Your cursor changes to let you know when you can deploy it. This is a net simplification. Instead of working sort of like a pack, sort of like a mine, and having it's own "use" key, it now works like other known items in the game.

Thanks for the clarification. Seems appropriate, can't really imagine playing it right now. Gonna have to wait 'till bata wave: kirby)

2. In Multi-player the Action/Use key means you don't have to hit the tiny hot spot on the vehicle to get into it. You walk up and use it. If you're on the driver side, you get into the driver seat. If you're on the gunner side, you get into that seat. This is common in other games. You press the same key to get out of the vehicle (rather than "jumping" out).

Newbies chatspamming "How do I get into vehicels??!!!?" pop into mind, but we'll most probably have team damage Seriously though, sounds decent, didn't know about this at all.

3. Active / Passive modes for packs. Now all packs work the same way. In T1 and T2, some packs needed you to press a key (shield) and some just worked all the time (energy) and some needed you to select them and then fire (repair). In TV, all packs do something for you all the time. All packs also do something else for you if you hit the "pack" key. Again, this is obviously a net-simplification.

Owned.

4. Extra Stations. I'm not sure what you're talking about here. There are 2.5 stations you can use. Inventory Station, Resupply Station, and (.5) the remote inventory station. The "deployable stations" are not really stations so much as just spawn points for that gear. When you run by a "turret station", it will have a turret sitting out there for you to grab if you want one, unless it's turret has already been deployed. In that case it will be empty (and will stay empty until it's item has been destroyed and it's respawn timer has ticked over). That makes it easy to know if your item limit has been reached - see any of the item you're looking for? No? Item limit reached. So now the inventory station is where you get gear for YOU, and the equipment spawn stations are where you get deployable items. Net simplification.

Again, clarification helps. I might question the effectiveness of the concept itself, but this is not the appropriate thread for it.

Why the tribes community thinks that simplifying the way something works means removing fun from the game is beyond me. The packs are now easier to use, and offer MORE flexibility and skill to the users, yet you insist on railing against this. It's beyond me. Simplifying a system doesn't make the game into Pong, it just makes a system simpler. You're still going to be flying in 3D while trying to shoot other people flying in 3D. It's never going to be easy. The goal is to get rid of the stupid crap that gets in the way of the fun stuff.

Relax, I just didn't see the points of these modifications and asked. I'm sorry if it got off a bit harsh, but it was pretty late over here at that time and I guess I was still a bit sour because of the TL affair. No harm done, nor intended.


And I am also beginning to see the reasons behind the omission of the rep kit. Right now I don't know whether it's a good thing or not, again, gonna have to wait until beta. In the mean time, I'll figure out what I'll be bounding my center mouse button to.



p.s.: did RegisteredFruit read the thread yet?

 

[PyroGuNx*]

It's fun. And I have been playing Tribes for longer than just about anybody on these forums (Booty has probably been playing longer, but I'm not sure). Does that count? In fact, it's not just fun, it's amazingly astoundingly fun. Beyond my wildest hopes for how fun we could make it. Do you feel better?

Did you like Tribes2?
Either way... I hate statements like this. It just makes me want to play the game more. By the time beta comes out i will have sold my soul for an early play of T:V :\


To what The Pumpkin King said: (pg 17)

That's because the use of the Repair Kit is hidden (to a point) when fighting another player. People don't say "Holy Cow! This guy is the best repair kit user ever!" Because instead they say "Holy Cow! This guy is near impossible to kill! He can stay alive forever!" because you cannot say matter-o-factly that the repair kit is directy attributing to his(anyones) ability to stay alive. There are too many things that can play a role in a players longevity.

Same goes for the body looting argument. No, no one goes off on how awesome someone is at body looting. They go off on how someone never runs out of ammo, and never dies. How someone has some primal ability to stay alive forever and thrash people to death while seeming to never run out of ammo. You can't say what directly attributes to the ability to maintain ammo, it could be conservation, it could be body looting.

I see what point you were getting at- at any rate.

Repair Patches were mentioned in MP, and in SP health was dropped when you kill someone. Is this the same case for MP? If it has already been answered, someone point me in the direction please (as i have missed it, sorry).

 

[Zoolooman]

Dude, come on. They couldn't do anything.

UT2k4 was fun for all of 30 minutes too, but ask me how much I play it now that the "Ooooh pretty...!" wore off.

I'd like to note that UT2K4 has depth, and I actually went out and bought it, which makes it the fourth PC game I've purchased for myself in my life.

HL, T1, T2, and now UT2K4.

If you don't think it has depth, then you never got really good at the game, nor did you play against excellent players.

 

[GIMPbeowulf]

It is nice to be able to regain health if you get fast kills, that's the real thing that repair kits do that makes a difference. It is a nice feature.

However, there are a couple of things related to the repair pack that peeps might not be thinking about that could make it easier to regenerate health in the field. For starters, it a med can move comfortably without an epack and the repair pack has both a slow passive regen and a set it and forget it active regen then it looks much more tempting to actually play in a repair pack. One person playing in the pack could also heal up nearby teammates easily without either having to stand still or even near each other. Additionally, and perhaps more importantly, if the repair pack works that way, what's to stop someone from dropping their current pack, picking up a repair pack, activating it, dropping it, and getting their old pack back. They would then get a nice health regeneration with no real penalty other than a second or so without their pack. One way to prevent that might be to require a charge up time on the pack but it seems to me that it would be quite gay to have to wait to repair your gens if you have the pack in hand. Perhaps my understanding of the functionality is flawed, but if not that seems like it could be a real good way to regen health for rapers especially. I guess one way of dealing with it could be it just regens a small amount of health and has a quick recharge thus requiring multiple activations to heal a person or equipment fully, but it still seems like it would be useful, especially if there's a group of peeps raping.

As and alternative, having little repair kit things spread around the map in certain areas might be nice. It would give the ability to dictate where people could regenerate their health while still preserving that ability.

 

[Zoolooman]

If you want an argument against the RK, one could just say, "It comprimises the new role of the repair pack."

 

[Killjoy]

This whole thread has done a few things for me.

1. Reaffirmed that T:V is in good hands.
When both the T1 and T2 players who have actually played it, loving it. Thats an Amazing thing that should not be overshadowed by the whinners.
2. Intrigued the hell out of me.
I refuse to comment on loss of balance or depth in a game I have not yet played, let alone one that is not finished.
We will not even have a rough handle on that until E3 and the "big features" are announced.
But it sounds very different from T1/T2 and that can only be a good thing.



I want to be a Newbie again. Like first learning to drive standard I want to grind the fukin gears of this beetch.

 

[VaporTrail]

Ok, I didn't see this mentioned in any posts up to page 20, so if it got in somewhere I'll be shocked and amazed, and you can soundly thrash me later for not reading every post.

Reason for not including the repair kit:
Consider this: a HO breaks in wreaks havoc to the point of the base is completely down and everyone's naked. In the previous games what has had to happen to stop him? You had to either get inside, kill him in the heavies BEST environment (in light where a mortar will paste you instantly). He will be surviving off your repair kits if he has a chance at them. Now imagine that same HO in a similar situation with a T:V repair pack or two, but no repair kit. The repair packs HAVE to be sitting around available for "dead base" repairs, so it's likely that the HO will be able to grab one and get repaired WHILE dishing out the pain. Add the random repair kit scavenge into that and you've got a HUGELY tough nut to crack. With my current impression of the game, it would make HO severely unbalanced. Add in a possible Shield Pack that the HO can trade out to and you make it nearly impossible to retake that Gen room.

Frankly all I can say is if you want to DJ alot as a medium, or more than once effectively as a light, think outside of the T1/T2 box and grab a repair pack.
THE E-PACK IS NO LONGER THE END ALL AND BE ALL OF COMBAT EQUIPMENT.

 

[Darkfire]

Good point ^

 

[Yogi]

Sounds to me like the health kit is obsolete because you're given extra health up front so you don't need it later