Crom's T:V Impressions from GDC

Thermoptic said:
You sure are some whiny pussies, eh?

It has skiing, it has flags and it has the disc. That's rather enough. All the changes are good because you will rediscover, relearn and innovate the way you play Tribes. Sounds fun to me.

ps. The only thing that makes my eyes cringe is the cartoonish feel of the characters, weapons and enviroments. Doesn't really helps suspension of disbelief for me :|
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And a big wall of "YOU CAN'T GO BEYOND HERE!" doesn't do anything for that suspension of disbelief, eh?

Hell, for all the things T2 got wrong, even Dave knew better than to make the OOB zones unpassable.
 
I thought the whole targeting laser thing was tongue in cheak.

I think people are serious about caring about the repair kit, though.

It's like that old saying: Less is more. :)
 
Things are being taken out of because of the people that can't think or press another key. What are they doing to reward players who CAN do that?
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I could ski in T1 without ski.cs.
Where's my reward?

Just because you're used to it doesn't mean that that's the way it has to be.

And a big wall of "YOU CAN'T GO BEYOND HERE!" doesn't do anything for that suspension of disbelief, eh?
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Only if you're not willing to make the attempt. Just think of the OOB as a forcefield that's put into place to keep you from going outside the competition area.

Hell, for all the things T2 got wrong, even Dave knew better than to make the OOB zones unpassable.
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And so you're saying that KP and Thrax both are no better than Dave G at designing Tribes games?
How about you just call them incompetent jackasses straight out, and save the extra 78 keystrokes?
 
VaporTrail said:
And so you're saying that KP and Thrax both are no better than Dave G at designing Tribes games?
How about you just call them incompetent jackasses straight out, and save the extra 78 keystrokes?
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How many games have they put out?

I'm by no means calling them incompetent. But where are the competition changes? What about tourney mode? What are they doing to make sure their ESTABLISHED base is going to care, besides having like four people say it was 'fun' to ski around and play by themselves, basically?

All this change I've seen was to make it easier for the guy playing who has no idea what he's doing. Well, that's just great.
 
Wulfen said:
Hell, for all the things T2 got wrong, even Dave knew better than to make the OOB zones unpassable.
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is this going to change the gameplay? you bet.

is this going to ruin the gameplay? not a fudgeing chance.

could this actually turn out to be awesome? sure as hell could.

do i like asking myself questions? well, sorta.
 
Wulfen said:
How many games have they put out?

I'm by no means calling them incompetent. But where are the competition changes? What about tourney mode? What are they doing to make sure their ESTABLISHED base is going to care, besides having like four people say it was 'fun' to ski around and play by themselves, basically?

All this change I've seen was to make it easier for the guy playing who has no idea what he's doing. Well, that's just great.
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Theres still alot of stuff they still aint announced so stfu for once..untill they release all the information on the game and have played beta and ur still not happy then by all means whine.
 
Why do you care so much about the OOB any way?...all the action is based in the map not outside.. unless ur a f4gg0t hill sniper.
 
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Darkfire said:
Why do you care so much about the OOB any way?...all the action is based in the map not outside.. unless ur a f4gg0t hill sniper.
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Holy crap you argue with such grace! I've not yet reached the zen of numbers as letters, so I apologize for typing in English.

Being able to go OOB made Tribes unique.
 
The Pumpkin King said:
You clearly have not read my post discussing the use of the health kit. It does NOT take hardly any skill at all to use. The skill in using it lies in knowing that it's there, Woohoo *pk twirls his finger in the air*. There is just about zero strategy to using them. All you have to do is loot bodies and hit H. I really don't ANY players that aren't aware of how this is executed. Removing them is NOT dumbing the game down, it is doing the very opposite because by wasting our time less with this strategyless aspect of the game, more time will be spent in the areas of the game where more skill lies. Perhaps noobs will be poor at using the health kit because they don't realize it is there, but this does not mean that removing them is catering to noobs. I would much rather beat a noob because my aim was better or because I knew where to be at the right time rather then simply because he didn't know about his health kit or know when to use it properly. That's just kinda lame. "Oh Snap, that skilless noob didn't know when to use his health kit and I decimated him." *yawn* I'd rather outsmart the players I go up against, then out-healthkit them. If the health kits aren't in the game then better players will best weaker ones more often on the basis that they are more skilled at areas that matter, not because they were better health kitters.


People are assuming that using the health kits takes some kind of intelligence and I disagree completely. You yourselves are arguing that "It is difficult for noobs to learn" is not a valid argument for X-ing the health kit because it is in fact EASY for people to learn.

I see a deep inconsistancy when I hear people argue, "Oh c'mon, how hard is it for noobs to learn how to hit H, use the health kit, and apply the knowledge in combat, it's so easy. Oh c'mon hitting H takes skill and strategy to be able to do well with it and it's a valuable aspect of the game."
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The repair kit adds a little extra complexity to the game, but you seem to have ignored every point justifying this. I never claimed it was high in skill to use, but there is strategy to it, in that you have to decide when exactly to use it. You could have a little bit of damage, below the maximum amount of health the repair kit gives, but decide to use it anyways because you are going into a situation where you could lose all of your health really fast. You could choose to not use it even when heavily damaged because you want to give the kit to your flag carrier.

The repair kit is such a simple concept that you can't really "outkit" a newb. As soon as they know about it and play the game for an hour, they'll remember to use it when they're hurt (especially with the aid of hints in the form of a flashing health kit icon, etc..).

You can claim that the repair pack replaces it, but you don't spawn with it, and it won't be used in every loadout. Requiring a medic will be a major pain in the ass in pubs. Why not just ctrl-k?


That's fine, I'll repeat myself since I am GIVING an answer and said people don't seem to want to listen for reasons unknown. You seem to act like you're dying for a reason, and then when people give you the reason you're looking for, you don't listen or care. That I can't understand. It's prolly just cus you don't want to accept the fact that you may be wrong.

Of course I may be wrong too, I've been wrong many times before. :)
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I still haven't heard a valid reason against the health kit. Until then, I'll believe they are removing it in another effort to cater to new players as KP stated (which this doesn't really do). Also, you don't need to repeat yourself once again. You tend to repeat the same point multiple times in all your posts, bloating them to sizes that are a pain to read.

I would like to re-emphasize that I am not really all that against the health kit. I am advocating the view point that it could be more fun without it because it IS POSSIBLE that this is the case. It could also be more fun with it too. Regardless I just don't find walking up to corpses and taking their health kits to be a very fun aspect of the game, perhaps this is the part of the game where you get your rocks off, and that's fine. However, I think it would be cool if there were new and improved ways to heal yourself or stay alive in the enemy base longer that were more based off of skill and innovation so that we could see some cool new stuff going on, but if you want everything to be the same as T1 so that we can play the same game for another 5 years then I respect your opinion. I liked Tribes 1 and I can see why you would feel this way. It is a safer way to play it, but I look at it like this. There are about 4 or 5 things we can expect from the developers that they have to deliver on. Speed/skiing, teamplay, Jetpacks, fun, and the disc launcher. The rest is up to the devs to decide on and all we can do is to give our positive input in a friendly and respectful manner without ORDERING them or SCREAMING at them to do things while we cross our fingers and hope for the best. You can dryhump these guys all you want crying "HEALTH KIT HEALTH KIT TARGETTING LASER TARGETTING LASER!" in their ears but it will get you nowhere.
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I don't want another T1. I simply am trying to keep them from worthlessly removing aspects of Tribes that add to the game. The armor/weapon changes could definitely improve the game, so I'm all for them. I'm not so sure about their active/passive pack system, but I won't complain until I see it in action.

Like I said in many of my earlier posts. Were all just going to have to keep an open mind and wait it out till the game is released before we spaz out and decide the game is horrible or going down the toilet. Personally as long as the game has Speed/skiing, teamplay, jetpacks, fun, and the disclauncher, I'm fine. I want the game to be pleasently new and different to leave room for a new era of tribes that's a lot of fun where people are figuring out neat new tricks to pull off.

We should be encouraging changes instead of screaming "OH MY GOD MY PANTIES ARE ON FIRE!" every time something new happens.
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The game sounds good so far in most ways. I simply think that by cutting the repair kit(and the TL) they are removing aspects of Tribes that improved the game.


Please work on being concise. I don't want to read another 2 page post that could easily be condensed to a fraction of its size.
 
Good lord why do you people care that the targeting laser is gone, it was completely useless in T1 and only slightly more useful in T2.

Repair kits too aren't especially valuable, the only thing they do is reward you for killing somebody faster than they can use the kit, it's not like the removal of either will detract from the game.

Thirdly, the new oob grid either seems like an improvement to me or it doesn't change much. I've read conflicting posts about whether you can bounce off of it with the flag or whether it acts like it always has and there's a second boundary behind it you cannot pass. Either way, it rewards cappers, because good capping is about movement and not setting up 5 second back caps.
 
True, but cappers aren't the only ones using the OOB area. Maybe there are times when you might want to near the enemy base undetected and go around instead of through; wether your in light, medium, heavy, or some type of vehicle--doesn't matter. There are too many additions and changes to assume t:v will play anything like t1 or t2. I won't dismiss any theories until the game is acctually playtested.
 
vawlk said:
Crom's is the closest I can call an objective opinion, as short as it may have been. While I hope you are right, I doubt you could say the opposite without any repercussions at the office.
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Certainly I can. Talk to sLaM. He's played it (a while back) and is probably more critical of what he played than anybody so far. If you want a counter opinion I'd say his is the one to get. But talk to other people who were there at that test too, because slam is just one of the 16 people who attended.
 
SterIO said:
Repair kits too aren't especially valuable, the only thing they do is reward you for killing somebody faster than they can use the kit, it's not like the removal of either will detract from the game.
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I disagree. If they take out the repair kits... it's just another step into newbifying the game.

Thirdly, the new oob grid either seems like an improvement to me or it doesn't change much. I've read conflicting posts about whether you can bounce off of it with the flag or whether it acts like it always has and there's a second boundary behind it you cannot pass. Either way, it rewards cappers, because good capping is about movement and not setting up 5 second back caps.
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I don't like the idea of a "bouncy" (even if it isn't a powerful TR2 bounce) OOBG. I like the idea of skiing OOB to a route... or just flatout not being "limited" to a certain area.
 
Concerning impassable oob grids:

1-If the maps are big enough, and the terrain obscures areas of it with hills/trees/etc. then it won't be a huge problem sneaking up on the enemy base from within the play area. Remember that T1 & T2 we were playing on mostly barren and featureless landscapes. T:V is not like that at all. There will be tons of places to hide and sneak in from.

2- Being able to leave the play area spreads out the action and reduces the chances of encounters with the enemy. Any idiot can sneak up on an enemy base by going Oob and avoiding contact with your opponents. It's not skillful to be able to avoid encounters on an infinitely large map. You just have to be willing to take the time to take the long route around. It also encourages lame-ass ultra long range attack and fade tactics. People wanting to stop some idiot who is just sitting way out in oob and sniping or disk sniping have to go way the hell out of their way to do it, then go all the way back or ctrl-k. It's an annoying chore for the defenders, and skilless newbification from attackers. I see nothing good about it.

3- the flag can't leave the play area anyway. Why would you have a reason to go out there into nowhere in the first place? There is nothing going on out on the edges of the map. There are no objectives there. There are hardly any people out there. If the map is well designed, you will be able to find lots of great cap routes within the boundries of the play area with no problem.

4- Being able to ski anywhere on the map has limited value to the game when your desination is nowhere. It re-enforces the illusion of freedom, sure, but it has no functional purpose that cannot be achieved within the play area. It's just another thing that dilutes the action of what is supposed to be a fast paced game.

5-It's all an Illusion of freedom anyway folks. Either you end up with infinitely repeating terrain, a big bouncy forcefield, or you just fall off the edge of the map. If it looks and feels like the terrain goes on forever from inside the play area, then that is good enough for me.
 
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