Seriously, if you're this concerned over a loot system for ZG/AQ20, your guild is doomed anyway. Just quit. Not that I expect you to follow any of our advice, since you're a raving imbecile.
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Who Replied?Seriously, if you're this concerned over a loot system for ZG/AQ20, your guild is doomed anyway. Just quit. Not that I expect you to follow any of our advice, since you're a raving imbecile.
our system is a dkp system and it seems to work fairly well. The GM awards dkp at the following times:
being in the raid for the start of the instance
hourly
boss downs
every attempt before we down a boss for the first time
once the instance is on farm, bonus dkp for clearing in < X timeframe.
we get some bonus dkp for the first few times we down a new boss.
there are rules on certain items too. when we started downing domo, we would let the hunters that had the other piece get the leaf at a set dkp amount (150).
for items that most classes can use, but is better for certain classes (IE: Staff of Dominance good for druids, mages, warlocks, priests, etc), the item becomes "locked" to the "need" classes (warlocks, mages i believe) when the bidding reaches 150dkp. For a while, inorder to keep people from amassing a ton of dkp, we took anything over 500 and put it in CP (we use the dsp mod which has a 2 places for dkp....FP and CP). We've since combined them both since all of ZG, AQ20 and MC are on farm. (we did use dkp for ZG and AQ20 but they were seperate from MC...and it was when we had just started out on both)
being in the raid for the start of the instance
hourly
boss downs
every attempt before we down a boss for the first time
once the instance is on farm, bonus dkp for clearing in < X timeframe.
we get some bonus dkp for the first few times we down a new boss.
there are rules on certain items too. when we started downing domo, we would let the hunters that had the other piece get the leaf at a set dkp amount (150).
for items that most classes can use, but is better for certain classes (IE: Staff of Dominance good for druids, mages, warlocks, priests, etc), the item becomes "locked" to the "need" classes (warlocks, mages i believe) when the bidding reaches 150dkp. For a while, inorder to keep people from amassing a ton of dkp, we took anything over 500 and put it in CP (we use the dsp mod which has a 2 places for dkp....FP and CP). We've since combined them both since all of ZG, AQ20 and MC are on farm. (we did use dkp for ZG and AQ20 but they were seperate from MC...and it was when we had just started out on both)
My biggest problem with people like that is they put thier need over the needs of a guild. All that time and he could have been well geared in healing gear and he chose to hold his dkp for *1* item.
Net change to the guild was 0. He picked up stuff that was minbid, and held out for the item he really wanted. As a result, your other priests got gear first. The total amount of Prophecy coming into the guild was unchanged.
Seriously, just because someone wants the same item as you, and has better discipline/strategy to get it, don't whine about it.
Ours is modified zero sum.
anything less than 40 man is point free, anything 40man with more than 10 out of guild is point free.
BOE's are open roll, mains over alts, etc.
Each BOP Epic is 1 point for every person in the raid, whoever wants the items gets raid number minus 1 taken from their points. (40 man raid, 39 points, etc).
Things that are to be DE'd have the option of going to alts/out of guild. Exceptions being: rings/weapons/trinkets/necklaces are full points and everything else is no charge.
However, since the xpack removes all new 40man content and locks everything at 25 and under I'm building a new system based off of participation kind of like RPP but not nearly as in depth or difficult to migrate to from what we currently have
http://www.shadow-command.net
anything less than 40 man is point free, anything 40man with more than 10 out of guild is point free.
BOE's are open roll, mains over alts, etc.
Each BOP Epic is 1 point for every person in the raid, whoever wants the items gets raid number minus 1 taken from their points. (40 man raid, 39 points, etc).
Things that are to be DE'd have the option of going to alts/out of guild. Exceptions being: rings/weapons/trinkets/necklaces are full points and everything else is no charge.
However, since the xpack removes all new 40man content and locks everything at 25 and under I'm building a new system based off of participation kind of like RPP but not nearly as in depth or difficult to migrate to from what we currently have
http://www.shadow-command.net
R
Rouailtagh
Guest
500DKP cap? Craziness, highest bid we've ever had was 112DKP and before that it was 50ish. But then I guess our system is a little lower than that, but it works for the most part. It started to fall apart after a couple of website changes which were not kind to the DKP coding and actual raid/loot masters changing hands 3 or 4 times and they had to get their data from the previous master and it all fell into a mess with less than min/ bid awards, unneccesary upgrades and such. So I'm bored enough to see if I could make a new looting system. It'll be thankless and there will be people griping about it, but it should be an interesting challenge.
The last piece that snapped me into looking into this was one of our rogues on a ZG run getting a pair of Blooddrenched Footpads free because he said it was an upgrade. Which would have been fine if he hadn't received a pair of Nightslayer Boots the week before.
The last piece that snapped me into looking into this was one of our rogues on a ZG run getting a pair of Blooddrenched Footpads free because he said it was an upgrade. Which would have been fine if he hadn't received a pair of Nightslayer Boots the week before.
Our guild uses a modified Suicide Kings loot system. Essentially, we have a class list and a raid list for each instance. You move up the list when someone takes an item (highest person on the list wins).
It's a decent system, but it has issues.
Our number 1 problem is that it does not reward people for showing up to instances where we are struggling. We have started into Naxx, and we are having trouble getting our top healers and dps'ers to log in. If loot isn't dropping, no one moves on the list, so no one sees any personal benefit.
The other problem/concern is that people camp the top spots for specific items. I'm stuck at #1 on the raid list of BWL because I'm waiting for the claw or staff to drop. However, I already have everything else I want/need from the instance, but some people are tempted to pass over medium upgrades to hold out for the big ones.
It's a decent system, but it has issues.
Our number 1 problem is that it does not reward people for showing up to instances where we are struggling. We have started into Naxx, and we are having trouble getting our top healers and dps'ers to log in. If loot isn't dropping, no one moves on the list, so no one sees any personal benefit.
The other problem/concern is that people camp the top spots for specific items. I'm stuck at #1 on the raid list of BWL because I'm waiting for the claw or staff to drop. However, I already have everything else I want/need from the instance, but some people are tempted to pass over medium upgrades to hold out for the big ones.
They are better than MC loot, so I probably put them at t1.5Really if you were going to throw in the zg/mc sets, they'd be t.75 or something.
Assuming I'm using the Renataki's Trinket regardless, the first upgrade to the ZG rogue shoulders is t3.
R
Rouailtagh
Guest
Our guild uses a modified Suicide Kings loot system. Essentially, we have a class list and a raid list for each instance. You move up the list when someone takes an item (highest person on the list wins).
It's a decent system, but it has issues.
Our number 1 problem is that it does not reward people for showing up to instances where we are struggling. We have started into Naxx, and we are having trouble getting our top healers and dps'ers to log in. If loot isn't dropping, no one moves on the list, so no one sees any personal benefit.
The other problem/concern is that people camp the top spots for specific items. I'm stuck at #1 on the raid list of BWL because I'm waiting for the claw or staff to drop. However, I already have everything else I want/need from the instance, but some people are tempted to pass over medium upgrades to hold out for the big ones.
Someone did post that in here somewhere, that the main hinge to any looting system lies in the players. You'll have loot-whores who want to forgo reasonable upgrades and go from 58+ green straight to tier1/2 or people who save up to get that big item, oblivious to the needs to the raid/guild. So you have to find a way to balance out the loot to assure progression can happen at a reasonable clip while trying to be "fair" to all involved. And on the flip side of the coin you have to attempt to find methods to deter abuse of the system and people who simply don't want to attend a lot of raids but still want in on the loot. And all the while you have to make attempts to keep everyone happy. Which almost never works because no matter what is done someone, somewhere will have a problem.
So I guess you can't fully make a 100% "fool-proof" system and at some point you have to give over some of the power/control to the powers and just hope they are mature enough and farsighted enough to understand there are times the guild comes before the raider.
R
Rouailtagh
Guest
Our guild also continues to raid MC for no apparent reason other than to gear up alts and new members. We've had 2 or 3 locks go from crappy greens to full tier 1 in less than a month.
You're lucky then, there's been no love for hunters or shamans at all in MC for us. It's pretty much all rogue and warrior with an occasional druid and mage.
Also this brings up an interesting question. If you have alts that run MC and end-game do they ever stop being alts?
500DKP cap? Craziness, highest bid we've ever had was 112DKP and before that it was 50ish.
:HANDONHEADGUY:
Our rules are based on the players rank
Raider
Dragoon
Initiate
Alt
In that order.
Regardless of your main status (initiate or higher) you always get loot over alts, even if the alts are officers/gm/etc. Raiders over Dragoons over Inits for mains.
The diff between Raiders and Dragoons is gear and participation, we dont have any form of requirement for attendance, but the ones that show the most (75% and higher) are ranked Raider and get invites for new boss/events.
Raider
Dragoon
Initiate
Alt
In that order.
Regardless of your main status (initiate or higher) you always get loot over alts, even if the alts are officers/gm/etc. Raiders over Dragoons over Inits for mains.
The diff between Raiders and Dragoons is gear and participation, we dont have any form of requirement for attendance, but the ones that show the most (75% and higher) are ranked Raider and get invites for new boss/events.
R
Rouailtagh
Guest
:HANDONHEADGUY:
Beats the fuck out of me, but there are probably as many looting system and deviations as guilds, and the amounts could vary widely and that could also depend on the earning. If you're getting 50 - 80 DKP per boss kill then it stands to reason the loot prices will probably be near 150 - 180 DKP. In our guild there's a couple who have 98%+ attendence who don't bid on anything and they are sitting on 350 - 400 DKP. On the flip side the people with same attendance who are regular spenders (as it should be) usually only have 60 - 80 DKP at a time/ And the minimum bid on items goes from anywhere from 5 (ZG/AQ20 blues) to 20 - 25 (T1/T2 pieces) up to 40 - 45 (epic weapons, necklaces, etc.)
Currently trying to get my GM to say where he borrowed the current system from so I can backtrack and see if I can find some patterns/information as to why they set the numbers the way they do.
Net change to the guild was 0. He picked up stuff that was minbid, and held out for the item he really wanted. As a result, your other priests got gear first. The total amount of Prophecy coming into the guild was unchanged.
Seriously, just because someone wants the same item as you, and has better discipline/strategy to get it, don't whine about it.
he was in pretty much all blues when he finally got his eye, after 4-5 months of raiding. He had a few zg trinkets, but thats was it. I always pass on gear if someone else could benefit a lot more then i could from the upgrade. It took me 6 months to finally win my proph pants because i originally passed them to a priest who had green pants. I'm not whining about it. I find it funny that he spent months and months trying to horde dkp, passing on nearly everything and in the end, i had a lot better gear + the dkp to outbid him.
500DKP cap? Craziness, highest bid we've ever had was 112DKP and before that it was 50ish. But then I guess our system is a little lower than that, but it works for the most part. It started to fall apart after a couple of website changes which were not kind to the DKP coding and actual raid/loot masters changing hands 3 or 4 times and they had to get their data from the previous master and it all fell into a mess with less than min/ bid awards, unneccesary upgrades and such. So I'm bored enough to see if I could make a new looting system. It'll be thankless and there will be people griping about it, but it should be an interesting challenge.
The last piece that snapped me into looking into this was one of our rogues on a ZG run getting a pair of Blooddrenched Footpads free because he said it was an upgrade. Which would have been fine if he hadn't received a pair of Nightslayer Boots the week before.
i also explained all the ways dkp is awarded. you can net 100-150 dkp a run on good nights.
You're lucky then, there's been no love for hunters or shamans at all in MC for us. It's pretty much all rogue and warrior with an occasional druid and mage.
Also this brings up an interesting question. If you have alts that run MC and end-game do they ever stop being alts?
Not in our guild -they always have 2nd tier status for gear. Most of them are officers or hard-core raiders that are trying to help the guild progress (we are chronically short on priests and well-geared rogues (shocking, I know) ). Loot has never been a concern for them though - they pick up the gear as it gets defaulted - quite a few have 3 or 4 tier2 pieces.
Occasionally, someone switches their main for one of their alts - rogues to priests was pretty common a few months back.
Random thoughts that I don't feel like quoting for:
SK is awful. It's a bad system. It's below bidding and only mildy in front of /random as far as I'm concerned.
My personal order of preference would be:
/random, SK, Open Bid, Open fixed price, "Closed" (aka Null-DKP)
All of these have a lame version (no constraints), and a good version (attendance/class constraints of some sort).
Null DKP with constraints is the best system that isn't officer loot (as I don't think this is a realistic option for anyone that is asking questions about loot systems).
As for Feannag, I wouldn't trust any system he came up with. I imagine he could even fuck up a straight implementation of Nurfed.
SK is awful. It's a bad system. It's below bidding and only mildy in front of /random as far as I'm concerned.
My personal order of preference would be:
/random, SK, Open Bid, Open fixed price, "Closed" (aka Null-DKP)
All of these have a lame version (no constraints), and a good version (attendance/class constraints of some sort).
Null DKP with constraints is the best system that isn't officer loot (as I don't think this is a realistic option for anyone that is asking questions about loot systems).
As for Feannag, I wouldn't trust any system he came up with. I imagine he could even fuck up a straight implementation of Nurfed.
Our rules are based on the players rank
Raider
Dragoon
Initiate
Alt
In that order.
Regardless of your main status (initiate or higher) you always get loot over alts, even if the alts are officers/gm/etc. Raiders over Dragoons over Inits for mains.
The diff between Raiders and Dragoons is gear and participation, we dont have any form of requirement for attendance, but the ones that show the most (75% and higher) are ranked Raider and get invites for new boss/events.
o_0