Official Christianity Thread
- Thread starter Sipher77
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by logical, i mean can you (or someone) give me some evidence or reasons that show that god must exist?
Lothar of the Hillpeople
Veteran XX
"God works in mysterious ways.
I have no idea why he does the things he does, but will continue to worship him blindly anyway!"
You don't expect a real answer, do you?
Stupid analogy. You can put up a webcam or take a picture or have someone just stop by and watch you. Proof can be provided.
Every time someone asks for proof the religious can't come up with a valid response. They dodge, they weave, they hide behind one word ... faith. Sorry but having faith in something doesn't make it any more real than what the Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Romans or Greeks believed.
I feel very bad. I must say I do not have a complete answer to this question. What I do know is that during the earlier days of Genesis, when people died, there was no law or covenant with the people. There was no conception of a reward/punishment system based on faith. We do not know what happened to Adam when he eventually die. Did he go to Hell for committing original sin?
I doubt it because God did not set rules/laws that the early men had to follow. Therefore when they died they probably went to Hades to await the end of days and Gods Judgement. The reason no set rules were required is probably because sin had not yet massed up to stop the Lord from coming down and walking amongst the people. Sin is ultimately what stops our relationship with god.
At one point in time God walked freely amongst the Earth and spoke to men and visited them in person. The reason this does not happen anymore is because sin has now ultimately consumed this world.
Basically what I am trying to say is that maybe (this is kind of a stretch) God revealed more of his plans as the level of sin in the world became greater. Thus Jesus does not appear and offer an "easier" way to be saved until the level of sin had become too unbearable great.
This is my hypothesis and not an answer btw. I am sorry.
I set up this analogy so this exact question would be asked. Basically the only thing seperating man from God is the level of sin. If there is fewer sin in a mans heart then the Spirit can envelope you and allow easier communication between us and God. But if you are completely enveloped in sin as a result of not repenting and engaging in sinful acts constantly, you cannot have a proper line of communication with God.
So lets expand my analogy even further. I cannot prove to arcadus that I am drinking a soda right now. But if he were to believe in me and have faith, as in purchasing a web cam, then this allows me to purchase my own webcam and prove to him, that I am indeed drinking a soda right now.
This is the nature of God. Our very sinful nature prevents the proper communication we should have with the Lord. As this is removed through prayer and faith, God will fill you, and you will believe.
[PoE]Anthem
Veteran XX
Like a ghost that doesn't appear when skeptics are around. How convenient.
Just another cop out. Religion is full of them. All the non believers want is proof and in 2000+ years not one ounce of real proof (none of this miracle of life is proof enough bullshit) has ever been found. Just some dusty old stories from long dead men who had their own agendas. Tell me, why should I believe in your god over the Egyptian's gods or the Roman's? They were there first. For all we know they're angry at us for turning our backs on them and believing in a false god.
Faith is always the argument. According to you the unfaithful cannot have proof but they're the ones that need the most convincing. It's blind faith that makes men do even more terrible things in the name of god that they might not have done otherwise. This is what sickens me. Obey and be faithful and you'll be rewarded. Disobey and disbelieve and you'll go to hell. Your god is a sadist who enjoys watching his creations writhe when all we ask for is proof. Simple proof of his existence.
i can believe that you, sipher, are in fact drinking a soda. hell, i could believe that you are a twenty-headed purple snake. but that would not make it true, and there are ways we can go about proving this.
the difference is that there is no way of proving that god exists. i'm not saying that he really does or he really doesn't exist. it's just that there is no way of providing proof that he does exist, and thus doesnt really give me, or any other rational person, any reason to think that it is the case.
the difference is that there is no way of proving that god exists. i'm not saying that he really does or he really doesn't exist. it's just that there is no way of providing proof that he does exist, and thus doesnt really give me, or any other rational person, any reason to think that it is the case.
As stated previously, I cannot offer 100% proof that God himself exists. The only thing I can do is show parables and maybe indirect evidence that God exists.
If God was like the gods of Rome or Egypt, you have to ask the question, why hasnt God faded away into a distant memory like the others? Well maybe because God actually exists and there is something behind it.
If Jesus was merely a babbling fool and nothing more then a mere man, how could this supposed mere mortal, singlehandly grow a religion exponentially to the point that now it is the major religion in the world.
Judeo-Christianity is the only religious root on the planet that has survived the devestation of its founding civilization. The Israelites were eventually scattered an no longer possessed a terrirtory to call their own. Regardless this religion has thrived and eventually manifested itself into Christianity, eventually taking root in all countries of the world.
You may not believe any of this, but it has to make you pause and think, why arent the gods of Rome, Egypt, or Native Americans even considered a possiblity for religious worship these days? Maybe because there was no spiritual authority behind it. Just maybe.
There is evidence that God exists. Will you consider it evidence necessarily? Probably not. But the fact is when you pray to God earnestly, stating, give me a chance to find you Lord, and if I feel within my body, my soul, my spirit, that it is you truly within me, I will believe you and follow you til the end of my time, you will find him.
The fact of the matter is, I was once indifferent to religion. I searched for outward signs, evidence in science, and philosophical arguments to find God or even a sign that he is there. I did not find it until I decided to give it a shot. I said a prayer close to what I stated in the parapgraph above and my first post, and a few months later I seemed to be drawn to him. Doors were opened to explore the faith further.
Before I joined the Army I decided to accept Christ in my heart, while a Christian friend of mine led the prayer. After I got out, I forgot all about it. But then later on, I was once again drawn to the Lord. I started skimming some passages of the Bible, and accepted a New Believers study guide and when I read about baptism and I felt an urge to do it, as this is the next step in a believers life. I was baptized and soon after I had an almost insatiable hunger to explore the Bible more. I read the first five Gospels within a week.
I am now fellowshiping with Christians to develop my faith further and find answers to small doctrinal question I have. I also pray to the Lord my God everyday for understanding, the forgiveness of sins, and praising God.
I have only really been a serious Christian for three weeks, yet I know deep within my heart that God exists. Others may say this is just luck that I happen to be in the place that I am, having people help me and guide me, others will say I am delusional or stupid, simple minded, or searching for questions and find answers in wrong perceptions.
I know deep down that this isnt true, and no one know what I am going through until they experience it first hand.
Thats why I beg everyone to try this experiement, an experiment that took 15 seconds of true effort, and 1 year of living my live normally has gotten me to this spirtual point. It is only 15 seconds of effort to invest. Trust me God does the rest.
No one can provide any proof which is why the religious always fall back on to arguments of faith and assorted anecdotes.
There are other religions older than Christianity out there that are alive and well and no more real than your religion.
As far as people believing in Jesus there are people who will believe in a lot of stupid things. Entire countries have gone to war over the ramblings of an insane leader. People have committed suicide because of cult leaders. Just because this set of stories haven't died yet doesn't mean anything except its a popular story. Origin and success over the years through its members still doesn't constitute proof. For how many hundreds of years was the earth flat and the center of the universe? Science debunked that garbage.
As far as making me pause and think sure .. you're right. You've made me think that religious people are a bunch of nut cases believing in an imaginary guy, who wants us to worship him, to obey his rules or we'll be punished BUT ... he won't visit occasionally to guide us along the way. He points to and old, dusty, outdated, mistranslated, vague, self contradicting and schizophrenic book saying "follow that" while we sit there and try to figure out what the fuck he's going on about. For an all powerful being he has the logic of a fucking ferret.
Just to let you know, I'm agnostic. I don't believe there's a god but I'll entertain the possibility of one. I will NOT, however, believe in any organized religion ever because there is nothing you, or any one else, can tell me to convince me that your way is the right way. If you were in the middle east you'd be born and raised Muslim and that's that life you'd lead. According to your religion you'd go to hell. How you like them apples?
There are other religions older than Christianity out there that are alive and well and no more real than your religion.
As far as people believing in Jesus there are people who will believe in a lot of stupid things. Entire countries have gone to war over the ramblings of an insane leader. People have committed suicide because of cult leaders. Just because this set of stories haven't died yet doesn't mean anything except its a popular story. Origin and success over the years through its members still doesn't constitute proof. For how many hundreds of years was the earth flat and the center of the universe? Science debunked that garbage.
As far as making me pause and think sure .. you're right. You've made me think that religious people are a bunch of nut cases believing in an imaginary guy, who wants us to worship him, to obey his rules or we'll be punished BUT ... he won't visit occasionally to guide us along the way. He points to and old, dusty, outdated, mistranslated, vague, self contradicting and schizophrenic book saying "follow that" while we sit there and try to figure out what the fuck he's going on about. For an all powerful being he has the logic of a fucking ferret.
Just to let you know, I'm agnostic. I don't believe there's a god but I'll entertain the possibility of one. I will NOT, however, believe in any organized religion ever because there is nothing you, or any one else, can tell me to convince me that your way is the right way. If you were in the middle east you'd be born and raised Muslim and that's that life you'd lead. According to your religion you'd go to hell. How you like them apples?
i tried all that, the prayer asking to accept jesus as your savior and all that jazz. i even went to church every sunday for 3 months (in boot camp) and i never felt god.
to me, god is just an idea in your head. it's just so widely believed that people think that it is true without question. "well shit, all these other people believe it, it must be true!"
it also seems to me that this idea in your head (god) is kinda like a placebo. you want it to help you, so you think it really does.
to me, god is just an idea in your head. it's just so widely believed that people think that it is true without question. "well shit, all these other people believe it, it must be true!"
it also seems to me that this idea in your head (god) is kinda like a placebo. you want it to help you, so you think it really does.
Meh, probably a troll. Reminds me of Orbys early days tbh.
I cant disagree with the way you feel now. Does a part of me doubt every now and then sure, but when I pray about it to the Holy Spirit I feel it fill me and erase my fears and doubts.
Abraham had two sons Issac and Ishmael. Abraham cursed Ishmael and gave his blessing to his son Issac saying Ishmael will always be in opposition to Issac and his descendants. The root of Issac traces back to Solomon, David, and Christ himself. While Muslims trace their root to Ishmael. And guess what, even today Muslims still oppose the Jews vehmently. Look back recently in history to the 6 days war in 1967 where many of the Arab nations gathered to assault the forces of Israel. In six days Israel pushed this offensive back and took large amounts of territory and ended the war. Look at Saddam Hussein who once stated he wanted to wipe Israel off the map. Look at the current leader of Iran, same deal. Why all the hatred for the Jews? This hatred in my mind proves the curse of Ishmael is true.
I also attended church in basic training and to be honest after the inital leap of faith, I felt nothing substantial in any way. Until almost a year later when out of the blue things started working. Keep praying every now and then. When your heart is weary and you feel low, pray to God for help. Make sure your prayers are audible for Christ himself did this. You dont have to yell it just speak it softly. One day you will find him. Just have faith that the prayer has been answered and you are waiting for your payday and your time will come my friend. If you are even more serious about it, talk to fellow Christians for help and ask for their guidance, for some gifts of the Holy Spirit can only be obtained through fellowship with other Christians.
Major organized church are sterotypically pretty bad at providing the necessary spirtual food to allow you to grow. Try to find some house churchs in your area if you ever have spare time. Eventually you're faith will grow my friend. A crop you plant does not grow full bloom in a day but takes months caring for it and watering it. Your spirtual faith is the same way my friend.