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havax
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Old
121 - 05-03-2022, 17:55
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so basically you believe in eugenics
 
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Fool
Whiny BitchX
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Old
122 - 05-03-2022, 18:00
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Originally Posted by sehvi View Post
Oh, Fool I definitely agree it's not a "great thing" at all. It sucks. I've said it before. I guess the difference is indeed the dehumanizing part of it all and maybe that's because I grew up in a society where this whole discussion was over before I got born.

However, I do feel that American society is dealing more with problems like the one depicted in the picture because of the 'American approach' to wealth (we don't have this going on in the Netherlands for instance). America as a society is rougher. There's less assistance by the state in comparison to Western-European countries. I'm not saying we are perfect - we do have our problems - but the way homelessness has been taking shape in America for me has been very painful to see. Especially knowing America's wealth.

So when I see this discussion going on about abortion and believing (yes, believing) that a woman would mostly abort a child because she isn't ready to provide a good life for it.. combined with the fact that trauma and a bad upbringing contribute massively to the problem depictured in the picture.. I just think it's weird to see conservatives who generally don't want to do **** about the problem - at least when it comes to social spending - to be like yeah let's amplify it even more. I do recognize the fact that people do or do not believe in social spending, but then again I'd like to point out the differences between our countries and the systems we have.
It's a bit of an unfair comparison. The Netherlands is physically no bigger than Maryland, with a population smaller than that of New York. Your population is more homogenous and older than ours. All of those would contribute to a better...ease of management. You also have a culture that encourages contribution to go along side social spending, we do not. Not that you don't have leeches, they inevitably exist, but I feel comfortable believing that its nowhere close to the number we have. We even have leeches within our government siphoning money to line their own pockets with lucrative contracts that produce nothing. Fewer resources get to the people who need legitimate help and boom, homeless everywhere.
 
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sehvi
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Old
123 - 05-03-2022, 18:00
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Originally Posted by havax View Post
so basically you believe in eugenics
If you actually read what i wrote you'd recognize that i very much believe in the effects of the social world (so yes: culture) has on a person and it's upbringing.
 
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Mr Jimmy Pop
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Old
124 - 05-03-2022, 18:04
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This is a big mistake on the republicans part. This will cost them seats for sure.
 
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Pagy
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Old
125 - 05-03-2022, 18:04
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Originally Posted by TW_Referee View Post
Alright, so you're going to let me know when the right stops calling everyone who's in favor of lgbt rights pedophiles and child groomers, right?
youve jumped from one giant, bad faith misrepresentation to another.

instead of making assumptions or automatically demonizing someone, try listening first. youre not demonstrating a good understanding of these opinions or rationality.

and these sweeping generalizations? “The right” “everyone favoring lgbt” like what sort of wonky binary world do you live in? Youve always been like this dude. you defend your ideology as you would defend yourself against a wolf. good people will disagree with you. Bad people can agree with you.
 
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havax
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126 - 05-03-2022, 18:07
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Originally Posted by Mr Jimmy Pop View Post
This is a big mistake on the republicans part. This will cost them seats for sure.
this is a supreme court decision, has nothing to do with congress, but because people are so stupid, you might be right.
 
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sehvi
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Old
127 - 05-03-2022, 18:09
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Originally Posted by Fool View Post
It's a bit of an unfair comparison. The Netherlands is physically no bigger than Maryland, with a population smaller than that of New York. Your population is more homogenous and older than ours. All of those would contribute to a better...ease of management. You also have a culture that encourages contribution to go along side social spending, we do not. Not that you don't have leeches, they inevitably exist, but I feel comfortable believing that its nowhere close to the number we have. We even have leeches within our government siphoning money to line their own pockets with lucrative contracts that produce nothing. Fewer resources get to the people who need legitimate help and boom, homeless everywhere.
I agree there are major differences. I've always said that we are "lucky" to don't have the opioid epidemic going on.. let alone meth and fentanyl. I also think this is very much because of us not being next to Mexico which is cartel territory. On the other hand, they've been trying to push these types of drugs hard over here, but it's difficult for them to make 'em popular because we've spent a lot of money on educating the populace when it comes to certain drugs. Heroin is basically being seen as a loser drug over here (still an unfair comparison because we all know the current opioid crisis comes from farmaceutical companies pushing percs etc). Combined with the fact that of course, my country is the main hub when it comes to drugs like xtc, ghb, mdma, amfetamine etc.. they've always been really cheap and accessible over here. So i fully agree that problems are circumstantial.

And I honestly do appreciate your reply. However, we see the same patterns in most Western-European countries. I personally believe it's not because we have "fewer people" or less people being a burden to society. I believe it's because of the way we govern our countries.

That being said.. i do recognise a lot of American spending goes towards the military. A military that keeps us Europeans safe as well.. very much economically. So i do agree comparisonso aren't always fair. I do think there's ways to improve for America when it comes to governance though. Maybe one of those is for Europe to chime in way more when it comes to NATO etc.
 
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Fool
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Old
128 - 05-03-2022, 18:10
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Originally Posted by sehvi View Post
How ****ty this sounds.
Indeed it does. Anyone can acknowledge the statistical likelihood of an unwanted child having a bad life, but again it's just rationalizing to make oneself feel better. Societal improvement in the long term really. Of course you could get the same societal improvement through forced sterilization of demographics based on those same statistical likelihoods, but somehow that seems a bridge too far even though the result would be the same, because one group you have to look in the face and the other you can pretend never existed.
 
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sehvi
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Old
129 - 05-03-2022, 18:12
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I don't disagree at all man. No worries there. I guess this is just where i'm willing to "cut corners".
 
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havax
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Old
130 - 05-03-2022, 18:13
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who here agrees that forced sterilization of certain groups at a young age would probably help this world overall?
 
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sehvi
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Old
131 - 05-03-2022, 18:13
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Christians?

Sure let's go.
 
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amRam
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Old
132 - 05-03-2022, 18:13
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who here agrees that forced sterilization of certain groups at a young age would probably help this world overall?
As long as Im the one deciding which groups get sterilized, LFG

 
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Fool
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Old
133 - 05-03-2022, 18:16
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Originally Posted by sehvi View Post
I agree there are major differences. I've always said that we are "lucky" to don't have the opioid epidemic going on.. let alone meth and fentanyl. I also think this is very much because of us not being next to Mexico which is cartel territory. On the other hand, they've been trying to push these types of drugs hard over here, but it's difficult for them to make 'em popular because we've spent a lot of money on educating the populace when it comes to certain drugs. Heroin is basically being seen as a loser drug over here (still an unfair comparison because we all know the current opioid crisis comes from farmaceutical companies pushing percs etc). Combined with the fact that of course, my country is the main hub when it comes to drugs like xtc, ghb, mdma, amfetamine etc.. they've always been really cheap and accessible over here. So i fully agree that problems are circumstantial.

And I honestly do appreciate your reply. However, we see the same patterns in most Western-European countries. I personally believe it's not because we have "fewer people" or less people being a burden to society. I believe it's because of the way we govern our countries.

That being said.. i do recognise a lot of American spending goes towards the military. A military that keeps us Europeans safe as well.. very much economically. So i do agree comparisonso aren't always fair. I do think there's ways to improve for America when it comes to governance though. Maybe one of those is for Europe to chime in way more when it comes to NATO etc.
I believe the way you govern your country is successful because you have fewer people and less diversity. I don't believe the model can simply be applied to America, nor would it be successful here. Your minimum tax rate alone would cause open revolt.
 
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havax
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Old
134 - 05-03-2022, 18:16
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Originally Posted by sehvi View Post
Christians?

Sure let's go.
probably not, because that would be really bad for people that need charity money, since Christians are definitely the most giving of the population.
 
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sehvi
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Old
135 - 05-03-2022, 18:18
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Originally Posted by havax View Post
probably not, because that would be really bad for people that need charity money, since Christians are definitely the most giving of the population.
There is little difference among self-identified atheists, Protestants and Catholics in the percentage donating to charitable groups. However, atheists are substantially less likely than Protestants and Catholics to report volunteering their time to charitable organizations. Atheists and Protestants report similar levels of volunteering with secular charities (50% vs. 49%, respectively). However, 85% of atheists say they have not volunteered with a religious charity in the past 12 months, while nearly six in 10 Protestants (58%) say they have.

Not really apparently. Apart from the fact that religious people tend to do more charity work. Reminds me of Reggs ridiculing atheist me for helping out refugees, lol.

Have you ever volunteered in life havax? But then again you're not really religious, right?
 
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havax
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Old
136 - 05-03-2022, 18:19
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yes, i have.

and yeah, i'm not super religious.
 
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amRam
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Old
137 - 05-03-2022, 18:30
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I've never volunteered. Probably never will.

I'm also not religious at all, but it is becoming abundantly clear to me that a traditional religion like Christianity is necessary for a functioning society to flourish.
 
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havax
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Old
138 - 05-03-2022, 18:38
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One thing is clear, I don't see as many Christians hating on atheists as I do atheists hating on Christians.
 
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Vanster
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Old
139 - 05-03-2022, 18:48
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Originally Posted by Fool View Post
The Netherlands is physically no bigger than Maryland, with a population smaller than that of New York.
Neither of those statements are true.
 
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SuperTrap
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Old
140 - 05-03-2022, 18:52
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