Rogue PvP combat daggers?

As far as I know most top rogues use 41/20/0

If mace stun was like it was back in the good old days then I would understand combat maces... damn DR.
 
So does anyone have any specifics on this 41/20/0 build? If there a base build which everyone tweaks a bit based on preference? I just thought up this build, is this similar to it or am I completely off-base?
 
I see this a lot and I'd like to try it but dunno if I should tweak it to dual wield spec instead of dagger spec.

I've been 41/0/20 for a long time for the imp ambush mostly but if the pro's like theirs then I'd like to try it... :p:
 
This is a fairly cookie cutter 41/20 build:

WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Rogue -> Talent Calculator


Enjoy.

EDIT: Rogues typically don't need riposte or deflection, the points are better served to boost dual wield specialization. You also want remorseless attacks, improved eviserate, and the longer SnD.

While I don't do a lot of arenas, my build is pure DPS, and I an always on top of the damage charts every raid.
 
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Gandalf said:
This is a fairly cookie cutter 41/20 build:

WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Rogue -> Talent Calculator


Enjoy.

EDIT: Rogues typically don't need riposte or deflection, the points are better served to boost dual wield specialization. You also want remorseless attacks, improved eviserate, and the longer SnD.

While I don't do a lot of arenas, my build is pure DPS, and I an always on top of the damage charts every raid.
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Are you honestly advocating Remorseless Attacks? That's the worst talent in the entire rogue talent trees.

P.s. saying you top damage meters means nothing. WWS Parses or nothing!
 
I have to agree with Remorseless Attacks. It's more useful in the lower levels, especially when it's an alt funded with up-to-date greens. There you have time to bandage and find another target before it runs out. But later levels where you are using quest/dungeon gear it gets a little more difficult to properly bandage before hitting another target. Especially PvP where you would rather not get caught by someone fighting a mob when you're at < 50% health. That's just ask for a gank and wasting CDs.

I do think at the very least vile poisons should be taken, simply to boost Envenom damage. The other poison boosting talents don't see as relevant. I'd also think Imp Backstab would be somewhat of a waste for a Mut build. I mean Mut is pretty much a double Backstab for the same energy cost +50% dmg if poisoned + 2 combo points. But if that is cookie-cutter I guess people are just loading up on all the backstab-improving talents and taking the extra damage. I prefer the extra CP right now though, makes for quick kidney shots and 5-point envenoms.
 
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Feannag said:
I have to agree with Remorseless Attacks. It's more useful in the lower levels, especially when it's an alt funded with up-to-date greens. There you have time to bandage and find another target before it runs out. But later levels where you are using quest/dungeon gear it gets a little more difficult to properly bandage before hitting another target. Especially PvP where you would rather not get caught by someone fighting a mob when you're at < 50% health. That's just ask for a gank and wasting CDs.

I do think at the very least vile poisons should be taken, simply to boost Envenom damage. The other poison boosting talents don't see as relevant. I'd also think Imp Backstab would be somewhat of a waste for a Mut build. I mean Mut is pretty much a double Backstab for the same energy cost +50% dmg if poisoned + 2 combo points. But if that is cookie-cutter I guess people are just loading up on all the backstab-improving talents and taking the extra damage. I prefer the extra CP right now though, makes for quick kidney shots and 5-point envenoms.
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Mutilate rogues should NEVER use backstab. Why would you?

Remorseless is a staple, especially during instance raids where your group is taking on large pulls. Dismissing it as a "low level talent" is narrow minded.

Vile poisons isn't nearly as important as the actual poison application. As a mutilate rogue, you're not as concerned with the DOT of the poison as you are with getting it applied in the first place so that mutilate will deal the max amount of damage possible.
 
Sailyn said:
Are you honestly advocating Remorseless Attacks? That's the worst talent in the entire rogue talent trees.

P.s. saying you top damage meters means nothing. WWS Parses or nothing!
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That's funny, I could've sworn that the task of the rogue was to deal as much damage as possible. If I'm consistently out DPSing every other class in a raid, then I must be doing my job properly?

As I said in my other post, Remorseless is a staple, especially for multiple mob pulls in raids. It's also great for grinding/farming.

Oh, and if you're sitting around bandaging all the time, you're not doing something right.
 
Gandalf said:
Mutilate rogues should NEVER use backstab. Why would you?

Remorseless is a staple, especially during instance raids where your group is taking on large pulls. Dismissing it as a "low level talent" is narrow minded.

Vile poisons isn't nearly as important as the actual poison application. As a mutilate rogue, you're not as concerned with the DOT of the poison as you are with getting it applied in the first place so that mutilate will deal the max amount of damage possible.
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Interesting how you call me being narrow-minded from dismissing Remorseless Attacks outright and yet...

Vile Poisons Rank 5 said:
Increases the damage dealt by your poisons and Envenom ability by 20% and gives your poisons an additional 40% chance to resist dispel effects.
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I'm sorry, did I miss a day in Rogue University where it was stated +20% damage to a finishing move (which could be used in conjunction with Cold Blood to amplify the damage more) was not considered important?


Gandalf said:
Oh, and if you're sitting around bandaging all the time, you're not doing something right.
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Next time fight those spiders in Terrokar Forest try not to get poisoned. Seems to me unless you get lucky with crits and stunlocking/gouging you'll get poisoned at least once. ~250 damage a tick for that poison even one application will take a good chunk out of your health unless you chose to stack pure +stam on all your gear. And bandaging while poisoned is waste. So I suspect unless you spend the time/money to tote around a fuckton of anti-venom and anti-poision pots chances are it'll be harder to get healed up and to a new target before Remorseless Attacks ends.

Gandalf said:
That's funny, I could've sworn that the task of the rogue was to deal as much damage as possible. If I'm consistently out DPSing every other class in a raid, then I must be doing my job properly?

As I said in my other post, Remorseless is a staple, especially for multiple mob pulls in raids. It's also great for grinding/farming.

Oh, and if you're sitting around bandaging all the time, you're not doing something right.
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You know what I find funny? Someone who dismissed a talent with that much DPS potential as unimportant would claim he to know so much about rogues he feels he has right to talk down to others who don't follow his tactics.

And it could be entirely possible that while you may in fact be in the top of you guild's DPS charts it is possible the other DPSers in your guild may not be DPSing up to their potential?
 
If mace stun was like it was back in the good old days then I would understand combat maces... damn DR.
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Yeah but it's on its own DR as opposed to sharing one with KS/CS. It's still fantastic.

I'm sorry, did I miss a day in Rogue University where it was stated +20% damage to a finishing move (which could be used in conjunction with Cold Blood to amplify the damage more) was not considered important?
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Envenom is total trash imo.

So I suspect unless you spend the time/money to tote around a fuckton of anti-venom and anti-poision pots
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Jungle Remedy from STV fyi.
 
I'm sorry, I prefer to apply points in a talent that gets the poisons ON the target than wasting them on a talent that I'll only use when the mob is almost dead. And I use my CB on mutilate, not envenom, tyvm. Unless of course you're a noob that uses envenom without letting the poisons run their full course?

I just about never use envenom just farming and grinding, as the mobs I'm fighting at usually dead before I even take any serious damage. In the course of farming for 2-3 hours, I'll probably use 2 bandages total?

My play style works for me, and the build I have is what I've found to work best for the situations I find myself in every night, which is running instances and raids. Of which, I do my job well, topping the dps charts just about every single time. Shrug. And my gear isn't all that great. hell, I don't even have any of my shit enchanted (except my daggers) simply because I don't want to waste money on shit I'll be replacing whenever I can get the fucking pieces to drop.

To each his own.
 
I dunno about you but while Deadly poison does do decent damage, it takes times to run its course. And when you're a rogue and not a warlock, sometimes you can't wait out DoTs. Sure it'll do more damage in the long run but in that long run you're still getting beat on and Evasion, etc. will only hold out so long. I would rather use Envenom since without any of the other poison talents I have little trouble getting five doses of Deadly on someone.

And if you use Instant, what's the point? You may as well 20/41/0 since Mutilate requires daggers like backstab and ambush. I dunno I just think if you want to expound on poison application and not using envenom you may as well just go all-out and go Combat swords, maces, or fists.
 
Feannag said:
I dunno about you but while Deadly poison does do decent damage, it takes times to run its course. And when you're a rogue and not a warlock, sometimes you can't wait out DoTs. Sure it'll do more damage in the long run but in that long run you're still getting beat on and Evasion, etc. will only hold out so long. I would rather use Envenom since without any of the other poison talents I have little trouble getting five doses of Deadly on someone.

And if you use Instant, what's the point? You may as well 20/41/0 since Mutilate requires daggers like backstab and ambush. I dunno I just think if you want to expound on poison application and not using envenom you may as well just go all-out and go Combat swords, maces, or fists.
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When talking about a mutilate build, I have some basic concepts that drives how I play, given a particular circumstance.

My first concept is that poisons, in and themselves, are simply there for mutilate to generate damage from. Even a simple crippling poison will allow mutilate's damage bonus to process.

When fighting a single trash monster, I am not concerned with DoT. I am also not concerned with finishing moves, whether it's eviserate or envenom.

When fighting a boss, I am more concerned with DoT and sustained damage, not neccessarily burst.

In concept #1 and 2, when dealing with single mobs, my stun cycle will kill them off faster than waiting around to do a finisher. In that regard, if I'm farming, won't finish with evisterate, I'll hit SnD, so that on the NEXT pull, I'll have remoreless AND SnD up. Coupled with my haste proc from my D3 set items, I'm simply a killing machine. Once I get rolling, I can wipe out an entire area, simply by CS/Mutilate/KS/Mutilate/Mutilate/SnD (dead) cloak wash rinse repeat.

When fighting a boss, everything changes, as now I'm more concerned with DoT and sustained. Mutilate is more for gaining CP's fast to maintain my cycle of SnD/Rupture. When attacking a boss, it's garrote/CB/mutilate/SnD/mutilate/rupture/mutilate/SnD, etc. The only thing that holds me back is fear of gaining aggro, because of the amount of damage I'm outputting. I also use anesthetic poison to mitigate my damage output, and to add yet another DoT to the boss. Once the Deadly poison has run it's course, I'll toss in an envenom and start up the deadly DoT again.

Finally, in PVP, I use crippling and wound poison, thus envenom isn't of any use to me.

I personally feel that anesthetic poison is very much overlooked and ignored by the rogue community. While some might argue that because it's ignored it should tell me that it's for good reasons, I tend to dismiss comments as mob mentality. I've had other rogues tell me that if I'm not taking quick recovery i'm worthless too. To me, if a healer is having to heal me, something else is wrong. Shrug. Blizzard only allows us just so many talent points to distribute, and if I want to do a 41/20 build, I need to maximize those 41 points in assasination to do as much damage as I can. I have to sacrifice what some rogues would call "essential" skills to do so. If I listened to every rogue who tells me I should have such and such skill, my talent tree would need a total of about 70 points.
 
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