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Swensonator
VeteranX
Old
41 - 03-27-2011, 20:26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FngrBANG View Post
Government has no business "guaranteeing" an individual's health by way of insured medical coverage. None whatsoever. Not unless you want to surrender other freedoms where health risks are concerned.

"Good health" is not a basic unalienable/inalienable right of mankind. Nor is "good health" some kind of endowment provided under natural law.



Just sayin'
Things change. It wasnt an inalienable right to vote for all citizens 200 years ago. We're not where we're at today because our concepts of fundamental rights havent changed at all since the founding of this country. 10, 50, or 100 years in the future health care may be as much as an inalienable right to us as the right to carry firearms.
 
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FngrBANG
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Old
42 - 03-27-2011, 20:33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swensonator View Post
Things change.
And your falsley imply that all change is good.

You would do well to correct that errant supposition.
 
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Swensonator
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43 - 03-27-2011, 20:37
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You're putting words in my mouth in typical fashion.
 
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DocHolliday
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Old
44 - 03-27-2011, 20:42
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Originally Posted by DrMeithos View Post
Leave
That is un-American. Americans stay. They fight for what they believe in. They punch people in the ****ing face who stand in the way of progress.

If anyone is un-American it is the ****ing ignorant ******* that tells someone to leave if they do not like something.
 
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Last edited by DocHolliday; 03-27-2011 at 20:45..
FngrBANG
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Old
45 - 03-27-2011, 20:54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swensonator View Post
You're putting words in my mouth in typical fashion.
I'm not putting words in your mouth.

You're just dropping simple concepts regarding change is all.

Don't get all progressivist on me & then try to play the victim.

In true ignorant redneck vernacular, son that dog won't hunt.
 
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Validuz
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Old
46 - 03-27-2011, 22:03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swensonator View Post
Things change. It wasnt an inalienable right to vote for all citizens 200 years ago. We're not where we're at today because our concepts of fundamental rights havent changed at all since the founding of this country. 10, 50, or 100 years in the future health care may be as much as an inalienable right to us as the right to carry firearms.
Not quite. The right to carry firearms doesn't mean that you have the RIGHT to take someone else's labor/time/money to ACQUIRE a firearm.

You have the RIGHT to have access to healthcare, not the right to receive FREE healthcare that someone else is working/paying for.

It doesn't shock me that you don't know the difference.
 
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Last edited by Validuz; 03-27-2011 at 22:08..
BlueSoxSWJ
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Old
47 - 03-27-2011, 22:15
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Originally Posted by Validuz View Post
You have the RIGHT to have access to healthcare, not the right to receive FREE healthcare that someone else is working/paying for.
And, um, just who do you think paid for the healthcare of the uninsured poor pre-HCR?
 
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Validuz
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48 - 03-27-2011, 22:31
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Originally Posted by BlueSoxSWJ View Post
And, um, just who do you think paid for the healthcare of the uninsured poor pre-HCR?
Derp, why do you think people are against freeloaders getting free healthcare?

FFS.
 
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BlueSoxSWJ
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49 - 03-27-2011, 22:43
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Originally Posted by Validuz View Post
Derp, why do you think people are against freeloaders getting free healthcare?

FFS.
So, we should be against paying for poor people (oh, excuse me, "freeloaders") to get preventative care, and instead pay for those same "freeloaders" to get more expensive treatment in emergency rooms, costing taxpayers more? Got it.
 
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Dynamo
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Old
50 - 03-27-2011, 22:47
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healthcare is not a natural right, that is true. of course, nothing is a natural right. in the hobbesian state of nature you are guaranteed nothing but a swift death. all rights as we understand them extend from civilization and, more accurately, government. if the law of the land is such that healthcare is determined to be a right, then it's a right, period. the only question, then, is whether or not it is desirable to extend healthcare as a right to all citizens under the law.

you can argue for or against the wisdom of extending healthcare as a right, but to say "healthcare is not a right" as an argument against universal healthcare misses the point, because it entirely ignores the fact that you have no rights except those guaranteed to you by the government you live under. you're basically saying "universal healthcare is not the law, therefore it should never be the law." which is clearly silly, since laws and our rights as citizens have been quite fluid in this country, with a clear trend toward increasing the rights of citizens over time. your rights aren't the same as your grandfather's rights used to be, and especially aren't the same as your black friend's grandfather's used to be.

i mean there are valid philosophical and practical reasons to oppose universal healthcare, but the "natural right" argument is quite specious.
 
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Validuz
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51 - 03-27-2011, 22:50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueSoxSWJ View Post
So, we should be against paying for poor people (oh, excuse me, "freeloaders") to get preventative care, and instead pay for those same "freeloaders" to get more expensive treatment in emergency rooms, costing taxpayers more? Got it.
"Preventative care." As if most would go. A normal doctor's visit is just as insane as an ER visit.

And not all poor people are freeloaders and not all freeloaders are poor. Hell, a lot aren't even citizens. Being a citizen should be a requirement to being touched by a hospital unless you're here legally. That would save far more than the poor people that need healthcare.

Having to pay for it and worry about it is the best "preventive care" that anyone could have. If people didn't have to worry about affording it, they'd care less about their overall health.

Another [example of a] problem: What would we do about morbidly obese worthless ****s that just drain hundreds of thousands a year? Just keep paying for it? No, we'd start over-regulating food and everything else that some people might deem unhealthy.
 
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Last edited by Validuz; 03-27-2011 at 22:54..
Vlasic
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52 - 03-27-2011, 22:51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPNirology View Post
apparently a lot of 'libertarians' and 'conservatives' don't like America and don't believe in our ability to do things efficiently. makes me cry knowing people in this country hate america
I believe the American people have the ability to do things, as in the private sector. Not the government. The government has proven time and time again that it is completely inept at just about everything.
 
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claudius
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Old
53 - 03-27-2011, 22:53
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Originally Posted by Validuz View Post
A normal doctor's visit is just as insane as an ER visit.
What does this mean?
 
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Thingfish
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Old
54 - 03-27-2011, 22:55
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It means: MOVE!
 
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Ezlpo
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55 - 03-27-2011, 22:59
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Originally Posted by Code4 View Post
they have herds of wild logging trucks there
frucking repped.
 
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Swensonator
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Old
56 - 03-28-2011, 00:04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FngrBANG View Post
I'm not putting words in your mouth.

You're just dropping simple concepts regarding change is all.
No, I'm making the statement about the possibility that it could be that way in the future. Whether it's good or not we can disagree upon all day.

Quote:
Don't get all progressivist on me & then try to play the victim.

In true ignorant redneck vernacular, son that dog won't hunt.
What victim? I'm simply pointing out your assclownery
 
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cogzinofa
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Old
57 - 03-28-2011, 00:11
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Originally Posted by NoGodForMe View Post
Health care works best as a free market system. Insurance was only supposed to be there for catastrophes, like car insurance. The problem happened when just seeing a doctor requires insurance. If health care went back to a free market, prices would come down.
I always find it amusing when people spout this retarded bull**** despite the fact that plenty of non-free market states where health care is working just fine.

they're either willfully ignoring the truth, or they're just ignorant.

but this is ngfm, so it's probably ignorant.
 
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ZOD
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Old
58 - 03-28-2011, 00:26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueSoxSWJ View Post
So, we should be against paying for poor people (oh, excuse me, "freeloaders") to get preventative care, and instead pay for those same "freeloaders" to get more expensive treatment in emergency rooms, costing taxpayers more? Got it.
The Libertarian ideology answer to that is to not pay for them at all via the government but rather charity and to allow Hospitals etc. to refuse service to those who cannot pay. If some or all die in the streets, that's their problem.
 
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DrMeithos
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Old
59 - 03-28-2011, 01:19
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Originally Posted by DocHolliday View Post
That is un-American. Americans stay. They fight for what they believe in. They punch people in the ****ing face who stand in the way of progress.

If anyone is un-American it is the ****ing ignorant ******* that tells someone to leave if they do not like something.
So, do you agree w/ the guy I quoted in that you think American exceptionalism is a joke and that America is a ****ty country?
 
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Togowack
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60 - 03-28-2011, 01:32
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how are you going to afford this when the stock market begins to crash
 
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