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Sipher77
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221 - 07-03-2008, 00:05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toranaga View Post
question

what happened to everyone who lived before jesus

are they rotting in eternal hell?
This I do not know, and this was once a question that plagued me for a while. I mentioned earlier about a parable of the ten talents. Basically God will judge everyone based off of what was expected of them. If someone grew up as hermit and never had human contact I am sure god will be merciful.
 
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Dumpy Dooby
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222 - 07-03-2008, 00:06
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Originally Posted by Hive_Tyrant View Post
There's evidence?
Yes, a Hell of a lot more than what you would expect for the existence of a wacky Jew that was going around with a fringe group starting **** with the Sadducees and screaming about how the sky is falling. Yes, relatively speaking, there are MOUNTAINS of evidence.
 
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Plunk
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223 - 07-03-2008, 00:07
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Originally Posted by Zulu View Post
Ok wait, I thought we were done here. I am not backpeddling, but why don't we go way back to 10 minutes ago where the statement was made



then



then



At which time I pointed to evidence from respected sources that suggest Einstein believed in a God, though not a personal Christian one. You called me out and said I was derailing the Christianty thread. I apologized, sarcastically, and now you're back.

What gives man?
Hey man, if we can agree that Einstein does not support the Judeo-Christian god then I guess we're on the same page. It just irks me when people use figures of intellectual authority like Einstein to support their misguided views.
 
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Bucket_Of_Mom
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224 - 07-03-2008, 00:09
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Change his title to bible thumper please
 
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TheGrudge
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225 - 07-03-2008, 00:10
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Bill Hicks is rolling in his grave.
 
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Zulu
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226 - 07-03-2008, 00:12
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Originally Posted by Plunk View Post
Hey man, if we can agree that Einstein does not support the Judeo-Christian god then I guess we're on the same page. It just irks me when people use figures of intellectual authority like Einstein to support their misguided views.
We'll take it for what it's worth. There was some discussion earlier that belief in God was for idiots. Einstein believed in a God, and since many atheists like to cite Einstein as proof of extreme intelligence trumping god-based religion....well then, I guess that argument doesn't hold much water does it?
 
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Hive_Tyrant
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227 - 07-03-2008, 00:12
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Yes, a Hell of a lot more than what you would expect for the existence of a wacky Jew that was going around with a fringe group starting **** with the Sadducees and screaming about how the sky is falling. Yes, relatively speaking, there are MOUNTAINS of evidence.
Please produce one rock from said mountain. In the meantime, I give you this for your reading pleasure:
http://www.ffrf.org/news/2006/debunkingJesus.php
and this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_myth_hypothesis
and because my wife says I'm 'messin' with sasquatch', this:
http://www.messinwithsasquatch.com/
 
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Dumpy Dooby
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228 - 07-03-2008, 00:13
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Originally Posted by Sipher77 View Post
I misinterpreted the context of what you said, and for that I apologize. As I have said before, I have only read a few books of the bible. I do not tout myself as an expert by any means.
Well, that makes sense then.

For the record, Paul never met Jesus. Paul wrote just about the entirety of the New Testament. Paul's message differed significantly from Jesus's. Jesus was a Jew that said not to go unto the Gentiles. Paul, who had been a Pharisee throughout all of Jesus's life and never actually met Jesus, was the one that started Christianity as we know it today. Paul wrote more parts of the Bible than any other author (unless you reject JADP, then you might be inclined to say that Moses wrote more of the Bible than Paul), though there are some discrepancies regarding Paul's authorship of some of the books attributed to his name.
 
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Toranaga
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229 - 07-03-2008, 00:14
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Originally Posted by Sipher77 View Post
This I do not know, and this was once a question that plagued me for a while. I mentioned earlier about a parable of the ten talents. Basically God will judge everyone based off of what was expected of them. If someone grew up as hermit and never had human contact I am sure god will be merciful.
so, why didn't god send jesus earlier to provide salvation for more people?
 
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Mindflayr
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230 - 07-03-2008, 00:14
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Originally Posted by Sipher77 View Post
If this actually the way things God wanted, why didnt Jesus pray to Moses or Elijah?.
Where are the grammar police when you need them.

Good thread for an Agnostic like myself.

Put me in the "As long as we all recognize what a crock of **** Scientology is we are all good" group.
 
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Sipher77
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231 - 07-03-2008, 00:18
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Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby View Post
Well, that makes sense then.

For the record, Paul never met Jesus. Paul wrote just about the entirety of the New Testament. Paul's message differed significantly from Jesus's. Jesus was a Jew that said not to go unto the Gentiles. Paul, who had been a Pharisee throughout all of Jesus's life and never actually met Jesus, was the one that started Christianity as we know it today. Paul wrote more parts of the Bible than any other author (unless you reject JADP, then you might be inclined to say that Moses wrote more of the Bible than Paul), though there are some discrepancies regarding Paul's authorship of some of the books attributed to his name.
Jesus mentions several times that the Lords Gospel was for everyone, including the Gentiles. There is one story I can think of where he heals the slave of a centurion because of his faith. By actions alone I believe this would signify he came for all mankind. I know there is more evidence to back the claim he came for Gentiles as well I just cant think of it and my bible is in my car.
 
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Plunk
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232 - 07-03-2008, 00:19
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Originally Posted by Zulu View Post
We'll take it for what it's worth. There was some discussion earlier that belief in God was for idiots. Einstein believed in a God, and since many atheists like to cite Einstein as proof of extreme intelligence trumping god-based religion....well then, I guess that argument doesn't hold much water does it?
God in the metaphorical sense, not in a deity sense. Not necessarily in a Creator sense either. He didn't believe in God in the traditional sense and so saying he does is incorrect.
 
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interface
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233 - 07-03-2008, 00:19
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The problem with the evidence is that it takes a lot of open-minded studying to review the prophecies in the old testament, link them together, and realize that there is a lot more here than meets the eye. Like Sipher said, it really takes the Holy Spirit's counsel to see it...so it's a catch 22 that just can't be explained. We are commissioned by Jesus to spread the "good news" and hope that people will take that initial leap of faith to investigate. Just that one jump allows the Holy Spirit to come in and start doing some work and it's like a domino effect after that. Your eyes get opened and you either follow it and your life gets changed or you shut it out and that's that.
 
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Sipher77
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234 - 07-03-2008, 00:20
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Originally Posted by Toranaga View Post
so, why didn't god send jesus earlier to provide salvation for more people?
I think this is the only question that has truly stumped me. I am sorry but I do not have the answer to this. I will try and find the answer from some bible readings tonight and I will ask this question to more qualified people.
 
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Sipher77
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235 - 07-03-2008, 00:21
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Originally Posted by interface View Post
The problem with the evidence is that it takes a lot of open-minded studying to review the prophecies in the old testament, link them together, and realize that there is a lot more here than meets the eye. Like Sipher said, it really takes the Holy Spirit's counsel to see it...so it's a catch 22 that just can't be explained. We are commissioned by Jesus to spread the "good news" and hope that people will take that initial leap of faith to investigate. Just that one jump allows the Holy Spirit to come in and start doing some work and it's like a domino effect after that. Your eyes get opened and you either follow it and your life gets changed or you shut it out and that's that.
I got your message you gave me btw thanks!
 
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Hive_Tyrant
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236 - 07-03-2008, 00:21
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it really takes the Holy Spirit's counsel to see it...
This is a gaping hole in your 'philosophy'. I hope that's not it. I hope you have something else besides riddles mistranslated from ancient fiction writers.

Edit: Dumpy, you may want to get TseTse in here. You might need help on this one.
 
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Last edited by Hive_Tyrant; 07-03-2008 at 00:23..
Dumpy Dooby
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237 - 07-03-2008, 00:23
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Originally Posted by Hive_Tyrant View Post
Please produce one rock from said mountain. In the meantime, I give you this for your reading pleasure:
http://www.ffrf.org/news/2006/debunkingJesus.php
and this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_myth_hypothesis
and because my wife says I'm 'messin' with sasquatch', this:
http://www.messinwithsasquatch.com/
I've read the first two already, and I haven't read the third. I can tell you right now that there is a reason that academia rejects the hypothesis, and it isn't because the majority of folks in the field are Christian. Some of the best essays and articles on the historicity of Jesus come out of secular schools.

How about you find me one credible historian or theologian that agrees with the Jesus myth hypothesis? Robert M. Price is about the closest you'll find, and his position is that Jesus probably existed, but he's reluctant to estimate when exactly such a character existed (I agree with this). Bart Ehrman, who is probably the most renowned contemporary theologian that specializes in this subject, disagrees with the hypothesis. Luke Timothy Johnson obviously disagrees with you (well, maybe not-so-obvious, because I doubt you've actually read anything written by members of this field). Who do you have on your side? Physicists, biologists, and the "Rational Response Squad"?
 
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Dumpy Dooby
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238 - 07-03-2008, 00:25
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Originally Posted by Sipher77 View Post
Jesus mentions several times that the Lords Gospel was for everyone, including the Gentiles. There is one story I can think of where he heals the slave of a centurion because of his faith. By actions alone I believe this would signify he came for all mankind. I know there is more evidence to back the claim he came for Gentiles as well I just cant think of it and my bible is in my car.
According to Jesus, the Gentiles would have to convert to Judaism, because the Jews are the path to salvation.
 
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Dumpy Dooby
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239 - 07-03-2008, 00:27
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Originally Posted by Hive_Tyrant View Post
This is a gaping hole in your 'philosophy'. I hope that's not it. I hope you have something else besides riddles mistranslated from ancient fiction writers.

Edit: Dumpy, you may want to get TseTse in here. You might need help on this one.
I know damn well that I am far more familiar with this stuff than TseTse. I effectively destroyed TseTse's hypothesis the last time he presented it.
 
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interface
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240 - 07-03-2008, 00:27
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Originally Posted by Sipher77 View Post
I got your message you gave me btw thanks!
np Brother
 
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