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DrMeithos
VeteranX
Old
121 - 03-29-2011, 21:11
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Pants: That's a good counter-point. However, Enron held a state sanctioned monopoly over energy supply. I said in the post you quotes that the only time when we really get ****ed as a whole is when there is no competition. There was no competition to Enron. Also, (just from reading California electricity crisis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia b/c I don't remember a lot about the blackouts) it says that two of the sources that cause the problem were from delays in approval of new power plants and government price fixing on electricity rates. Edit: you know the difference between Enron as a monopoly screwing customers and fudging numbers to balance a budget and the government screwing citizens and fudging numbers to balance a budget? The government doesn't ever suffer a penalty for it.

I wonder, also, if there would have been such a crisis if it weren't for government bans on nuclear power and offshore drilling for oil and natural gas.
 
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Last edited by DrMeithos; 03-29-2011 at 21:14..
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Calx
VeteranX
Old
122 - 03-29-2011, 21:15
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if the average American is stupider than the average TWer, then this ignorant-ass thread filled with voting-age citizens reminds me exactly why our government will continue to stay ****ed while morons argue with each other about which politician to give their money to

oh and lol @ the posters here who think the gov't run services are better than... well, anything. there's already plenty of proof and evidence out there but i suppose that doesn't matter when one is so willingly ignorant and oblivious
 
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PantsMcFist
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Old
123 - 03-29-2011, 21:18
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The blackouts were in part artifically created in order to game the system and reap massive payouts from the gov't through a program that provided incentives to energy companies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_Star_(Business)
California electricity crisis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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PantsMcFist
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Old
124 - 03-29-2011, 21:26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calx View Post
if the average American is stupider than the average TWer, then this ignorant-ass thread filled with voting-age citizens reminds me exactly why our government will continue to stay ****ed while morons argue with each other about which politician to give their money to

oh and lol @ the posters here who think the gov't run services are better than... well, anything. there's already plenty of proof and evidence out there but i suppose that doesn't matter when one is so willingly ignorant and oblivious
Yeah, your system is a shining example of how great private healthcare meted out by insurance companies is. Also, I'll take my public insurance over anything you've got any day. Same for healthcare, electricity, and natural gas providers. You know why? When there is a profit made, as there often is in the energy & insurance business, it comes back to me. By paying taxes, I am a shareholder. I drove safely for the last year and MPI made a profit, so I and everyone else that did as well are going to get about 15% of what we paid last year back.

Enjoy your freedom and price gouging, not to mention the illusion that you're not being held down and raped by energy and insurance lobbies.
 
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FngrBANG
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Old
125 - 03-29-2011, 22:19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Detox.enD View Post
As someone who works in the health care system, i find it absolutely laughable that you would approach a comment like 'the insurance companies are raping us' with the sarcastic response of 'well, then it should be free'.

the amount of wasted money in red tape, unneeded procedures, bull**** tests, and people who don't pay their bills is what kills the system. as does the ever-increasing cost of mal practice insurance due to the 10% of doctors that actually have to use it on a regular basis and should be removed from practice, but aren't because noone wants to be the one to point out their fellow doctor should lose their job.

add to that the fact that insurance companies do whatever they can to get out of a claim, and you have the disgusting mess we have.

you're a nurse. you're well aware of the situation. you know how i know? because i'm marreid to a nurse, and after 4 years of experience she's well aware of how ****ed up the system is. if you're not aware of it, than you're dumber than we all thought.

so stop being a dip****.
You need to step back into your little woman's pants and clean some dishes big guy.

You presume wayyyy too much.

One of the primary reasons for unnecessary tests/procedures is because of the sheer number of frivolous lawsuits in which some [email protected] lawyer convinced a [email protected] jury that everyone should be tested for rocky mountain spotted fever whenever some [email protected] gets food poisoning from eating a Nature Valley granola bar. Oh, red tape you say? Again, lawsuits and rejected insurance claims due to lack of proper documentation (by lazy negligent healthcare employees, go figure) is your number one cause for the bureaucratic nighmare that has become the standard modus operandi for our modern helthcare system. Add to that the staggering amount of cost that each hospital has to absorb due to non-paying indigent care and you can see why a plastic urinal costs $15.

It's the society, [email protected]! Not the insurance companies!


You wanna' know what can preserve a healthcare system that is #1 worldwide in technology and responsiveness?

Open competition and tort reform.

Too f*cking bad you're buying into the same old populist bullsh*t to fathom such a simple answer.
 
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BlueSoxSWJ
VeteranX
Old
126 - 03-29-2011, 22:53
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Serious question for tort reform advocates:

If a town has skyrocketing auto insurance rates because a sizeable minority of the drivers in the town are stupid and reckless and cause lots of accidents, how would you bring down insurance costs? Would you also advocate tort reform, making it illegal to sue the reckless driver that totaled someone's car and injured 3 people? Or would you work to make the roads safer, educate the dumbass drivers, and tighten license requirements so the ones who keep hurting people by driving recklessly lose their licenses?

The U.S. consistently ranks last or near last in developed countries in most patient safety categories, including hospital infections, accidental patient deaths, and serious injury due to medical malpractice. So why is the standard response on how to control insurance rates to make it illegal to sue the doctors and hospitals that injure and kill people, instead of developing new procedures to make hospitals safer, improving our training for nurses and surgeons to better educate them, and delicensing the ones who still **** up?
 
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ZOD
VeteranX
Old
127 - 03-30-2011, 00:34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FngrBANG View Post
That must be why all the private insurance companies are failing and medicare is doing so well
Efficiency isn't funding related.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NightTrain View Post
If you are making the argument that your natural rights still exist even if your chosen society disregards them, well..so what?

Rights available to a person exist only as far as their society allows. Which is to say that, in reality, there are neither natural nor inherent...only allowed.

At one time, our society was founded on the notion of certain inalienable rights but "eroded over time" has replaced "shall not be infringed."
Like I said, infringement doesn't magically make natural rights non-existent.
 
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ZOD
VeteranX
Old
128 - 03-30-2011, 00:37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueSoxSWJ View Post
Serious question for tort reform advocates:

If a town has skyrocketing auto insurance rates because a sizeable minority of the drivers in the town are stupid and reckless and cause lots of accidents, how would you bring down insurance costs? Would you also advocate tort reform, making it illegal to sue the reckless driver that totaled someone's car and injured 3 people? Or would you work to make the roads safer, educate the dumbass drivers, and tighten license requirements so the ones who keep hurting people by driving recklessly lose their licenses?

The U.S. consistently ranks last or near last in developed countries in most patient safety categories, including hospital infections, accidental patient deaths, and serious injury due to medical malpractice. So why is the standard response on how to control insurance rates to make it illegal to sue the doctors and hospitals that injure and kill people, instead of developing new procedures to make hospitals safer, improving our training for nurses and surgeons to better educate them, and delicensing the ones who still **** up?
Tort reformers don't necessarily want to eliminate lawsuits, they want to cap damages awarded.
 
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Validuz
VeteranXX
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Old
129 - 03-30-2011, 00:47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PantsMcFist View Post
The blackouts were in part artifically created in order to game the system and reap massive payouts from the gov't through a program that provided incentives to energy companies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_Star_(Business)
California electricity crisis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


John Forney, a former energy trader who invented various strategies such as the "Death Star," was indicted in December 2002, on 11 counts of conspiracy and wire fraud. His supervisors, Timothy Belden and Jeffrey Richter, have both pleaded guilty to conspiring to commit wire fraud and currently are aiding prosecutors in investigating this scandal. On August 5, 2004 John Forney plead guilty to conspiracy to commit wire fraud and in 2007 was given 2 years probation and a $4,000 USD fine.

Nailed 'em!
 
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DrMeithos
VeteranX
Old
130 - 03-30-2011, 01:19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueSoxSWJ View Post
Serious question for tort reform advocates:

If a town has skyrocketing auto insurance rates because a sizeable minority of the drivers in the town are stupid and reckless and cause lots of accidents, how would you bring down insurance costs? Would you also advocate tort reform, making it illegal to sue the reckless driver that totaled someone's car and injured 3 people? Or would you work to make the roads safer, educate the dumbass drivers, and tighten license requirements so the ones who keep hurting people by driving recklessly lose their licenses?

The U.S. consistently ranks last or near last in developed countries in most patient safety categories, including hospital infections, accidental patient deaths, and serious injury due to medical malpractice. So why is the standard response on how to control insurance rates to make it illegal to sue the doctors and hospitals that injure and kill people, instead of developing new procedures to make hospitals safer, improving our training for nurses and surgeons to better educate them, and delicensing the ones who still **** up?
Tort reform - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Read this, because you have obviously never read anything about what tort reform is, then try again.
 
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FireStorm!
I know shok++
Old
131 - 03-30-2011, 01:28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machine View Post
This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock, powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the US Department of Energy. I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility. After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels to see what the National Weather Service of the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration determined the weather was going to be like using satellites designed, built, and launched by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. I watch this while eating my breakfast of US Department of Agriculture inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the Food and Drug Administration.

At the appropriate time as regulated by the US Congress, and kept accurate by the National Institute of Standards and Technology and the US Naval Observatory, I get into my National Highway Traffic Safety Administration approved automobile and set out to work on the roads built by the local, state, and federal Departments of Transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the Environmental Protection Agency, using legal tender issued by the Federal Reserve Bank. On the way out the door, I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the US Postal Service and drop the kids off at the public school.

After work, I drive my NHTSA bar back home on DOT roads, to a house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and Fire Marshalís inspection, and which has not been plundered of all its valuables thanks to the local police department.

I then log on to the internet which was developed by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Administration and post of FreeRepublic.com and Fox News forums about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government canít do anything right.


tl;dr you're a dumbass.
Awesome. Wow nicely done
 
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Swensonator
VeteranX
Old
132 - 03-30-2011, 02:46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPNirology View Post
lol fail
Quote:
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes
Do tell me how an income tax is somehow fundamentally different from any other.
 
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Shoddy
VeteranX
Old
133 - 03-30-2011, 04:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueSoxSWJ View Post
The U.S. consistently ranks last or near last in developed countries in most patient safety categories, including hospital infections, accidental patient deaths, and serious injury due to medical malpractice. So why is the standard response on how to control insurance rates to make it illegal to sue the doctors and hospitals that injure and kill people, instead of developing new procedures to make hospitals safer, improving our training for nurses and surgeons to better educate them, and delicensing the ones who still **** up?
Do you think more expensive lawsuits are the best, most efficient way to address the deficiencies that you've asserted are present?
 
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Vanster
VeteranXX
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Old
134 - 03-30-2011, 04:41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoddy View Post
Do you think more expensive lawsuits are the best, most efficient way to address the deficiencies that you've asserted are present?
He just stated what he thought the most efficient ways to address those deficiencies were:

Quote:
developing new procedures to make hospitals safer, improving our training for nurses and surgeons to better educate them, and delicensing the ones who still **** up
I don't understand how he very clearly states his position, and you come back in the very next post with a hyperbolic strawman. Maybe you can clear that up.
 
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Shoddy
VeteranX
Old
135 - 03-30-2011, 05:08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanster View Post
I don't understand how he very clearly states his position, and you come back in the very next post with a hyperbolic strawman. Maybe you can clear that up.
I'll try. Why set up tort reform as door #1, and contrast it with measures to improve safety as door #2? He must feel that we cannot choose both. He must feel that the safety measures will only come about if lawsuits are not curtailed. That's counterintuitive to me, and hence my post.
 
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BlueSoxSWJ
VeteranX
Old
136 - 03-31-2011, 10:18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoddy View Post
I'll try. Why set up tort reform as door #1, and contrast it with measures to improve safety as door #2? He must feel that we cannot choose both. He must feel that the safety measures will only come about if lawsuits are not curtailed. That's counterintuitive to me, and hence my post.
I don't think tort reform and improved safety are mutually exclusive. I just wonder why a political party makes a huge deal out of tort reform first instead of improving safety regulations, which would be both good for patients AND reduce malpractice insurance costs. It's doubly confusing to me because this is the same party that will screech "death panels" and "regulation is killing the industry!" every time any reform other than tort reform is proposed. Here's a thought - if we have to deregulate things to the point where we are literally one of the worst countries in the developed world at accidentally killing patients just to keep the healthcare industry profitable, is that cost really worth protecting the industry's profits? (I don't believe the premise, by the way, but that's what the Republicans keep claiming when they fight patient safety regulations.)
 
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DrMeithos
VeteranX
Old
137 - 03-31-2011, 20:57
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God damn Bluesox, read a ****ing newspaper sometime. I can't believe you just posted that drivel and claim that that's the Republican position. That post is about as ignorant as some West Virginia illiterate redneck saying Democrats support feminism and they're openly saying they support it because it takes white man yerbs.
 
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