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TseTse
VeteranX
Old
261 - 10-05-2008, 18:22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triple View Post
You don't know 71% of independent economists leaned Obama.

71% of self-identified independent NBER economists, who work in academia, out of those who purposefully chose to respond to this survey and mail it back in, 44 out of 62 leaned obama.
As usual, you are swinging at strawmen.

I don't disagree with your point and never have. It's merely a survey with limited responses and nobody... is claiming it represents ALL economists and such. This is your own paranoid strawman argument.
 
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Corossus
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262 - 10-05-2008, 18:22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby View Post
Who are the three PhDs that are laughing at me, and why should it matter to me if their major is in economics?
Only one specializes in economic development, and none of us majored in econ as undergrads. I specialize in health in full disclosure. But I'm more interested in why You don't like Berlin and consider him a socialist? I've never heard this interpretation before. Ive only read the excerpts given in classes, but usually he's taught as advocating individual freedoms over the "freedoms" of society. Not too much Marx in there, and I would guess notions of class consciousness would be appalling to him, but I don't know.
 
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TseTse
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263 - 10-05-2008, 18:22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby View Post
The Economist is famously left-leaning you moron.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby View Post
The Economist is not pro-capitalist. Not in the slightest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby View Post
The Economist pushes neoclassical economic policies, which are all theories of left-leaning ideologies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby View Post
Chicago school of economics is neoclassical as well.
 
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triple
VeteranXV
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264 - 10-05-2008, 18:22
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Quote:
Republicans all leaned Obama.
This is a lie.

Taken from RepublicanRespondents.pdf

Quote:
Please rate McCain's economic plans:
3.285714

Please rate Obama's economic plans:
2.071429
Of course all of this is junk anyways since only 14 republicans were included in their little poll. The difference is 3-4 people in some case, is that definitive information for you tsetse? You want me to poll my wow guild for opinion on the war next? It'd be about as accurate.
 
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Last edited by triple; 10-05-2008 at 18:25..
FngrBANG
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Old
265 - 10-05-2008, 18:24
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Whup...60 Minutes on! Sorry guys, something more entertaining just came along.
 
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OtisPAB
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Old
266 - 10-05-2008, 18:25
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I just talked to my neighbor, who is democrat. She is supporting McCain. 100% OF DEMOCRATS SURVEYED SUPPORT MCCAIN!!!!!!!!!!
 
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TseTse
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Old
267 - 10-05-2008, 18:26
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^

Quote:
Originally Posted by triple View Post
This is a lie.

Taken from RepublicanRespondents.pdf
It's not a lie, although i oughta be more careful and remind you that i'm talking about the question about which person knows economics better. I notice you didnt cite that stat.
 
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-Bane
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Old
268 - 10-05-2008, 18:26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TseTse View Post
It's not attempting to be a real polling methodology, tho. It's a very basic survey. Nothing more.
...
The issue is what to make of it.
Nothing, because the data, while perfectly valid in its being data, is not strong enough to make a claim in any direction. In short this thread is just an outlet for useless bantering.
 
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OtisPAB
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Old
269 - 10-05-2008, 18:28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Bane View Post
Nothing, because the data, while perfectly valid in its being data, is not strong enough to make a claim in any direction. In short this thread is just an outlet for useless bantering.
um.. welcome to TW?
 
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triple
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Old
270 - 10-05-2008, 18:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TseTse View Post
^



It's not a lie, although i oughta be more careful and just say i'm talking about the question about which person knows economics better. I notice you didnt cite that stat.
But you're not citing that stat when you claim the majority of republicans support obama's policies. They think he has a better grasp of a subject, but is still wrong. Is that a ringing endorsement?

"Who's policies do you support" is pretty straightforward. Yea, you lied out your ass. Not surprised.

For instance, you claimed:

"even tho the REPUBLICAN economists still preferred obama" - no. Lie.
 
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flexxx
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Old
271 - 10-05-2008, 18:30
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Hey triple,

I'm in the mood for some laughable right-wing spin.

What do you think about Palin?

 
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TseTse
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Old
272 - 10-05-2008, 18:31
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Originally Posted by triple View Post
But you're not citing that stat when you claim the majority of republicans support obama's policies.
The majority of the republican respondents think obama knows economics better than mccain.

71% of the independents felt the same.

That's what i said in the OP. I thought it was clear what we were talking about.
 
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flexxx
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Old
273 - 10-05-2008, 18:32
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Also triple,

How'd that Bush presidency work out?

 
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fartiusstinkius
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Old
274 - 10-05-2008, 18:34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby View Post
No, I am against it on moral principle, and I will gladly defend that position to the best of my ability against anyone who (incorrectly) thinks I'm wrong.


Hypothetically, if I could prove to a Keynesian that murder is an "efficient" means of population control or that America's peculiar institution was an "efficient" means of reducing the costs of farming prior to the industrial revolution, would the Keynesian advocate murder or slavery in those contexts? I would like to think that your average Keynesian would disagree with legislating either of those, efficiency and statistics be damned.
No one can argue morals (including you) so to even say that someone is incorrect on the morals is pretty stupid. There is no single set of morals. There are norms, but everyone has slight differences in their beliefs.

And Keynesians (I guess a Keynesian in your world is just someone who doesn't agree with your beliefs?) will of course also have their own moral codes. I would guess that very few would accept murdering people in order to increase efficiency...but I'm not sure what your point is really. You go by your moral codes...others go by theirs. You might believe that government should regulate as little as possible and I believe that the implementation of regulations should depend upon the specific regulations themselves--some are good, some are bad.

So I'm kind of confused, since nothing you posted really contradicted me...
 
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TseTse
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Old
275 - 10-05-2008, 18:35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Bane View Post
Nothing, because the data, while perfectly valid in its being data, is not strong enough to make a claim in any direction. In short this thread is just an outlet for useless bantering.
You can make nothing of it if you must. Obviously some here will. It's TW.

However, personally, i find it significant that 71% of the independents responded that they believe Obama knows economics better than Mccain and also felt that he would pick better economic people.

They also favored Obama's economic plans.

For those of us interested in the opinions of actually independent experts, that's significant.
 
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triple
VeteranXV
Old
276 - 10-05-2008, 18:40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TseTse View Post
The majority of the republican respondents think obama knows economics better than mccain.
No, that's not what you claimed. I quoted what your exact words, and that's not what you said. The cool thing about forums is you can't backtrack effectively, everything is written down for us to go back to.

I take that back, you definitely can, you just look like a total moron doing it.

Also, lets face it, a lot of the time so-called "unaffiliated" voters are definitely affiliated.

For example, you.
 
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TseTse
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Old
277 - 10-05-2008, 18:43
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Whatever triple, i already clarified that they only supported obama in terms of KNOWLEDGE.



(and i love how you just cant address anything besides the republican sample lol)
 
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-Bane
VeteranXV
Old
278 - 10-05-2008, 18:45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TseTse View Post
You can make nothing of it if you must. Obviously some here will. It's TW.

However, personally, i find it significant that 71% of the independents responded that they believe Obama knows economics better than Mccain and also felt that he would pick better economic people.

They also favored Obama's economic plans.

For those of us interested in the opinions of actually independent experts, that's significant.
Your interest in the poll's respondents' opinions does not make the poll significant.
 
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triple
VeteranXV
Old
279 - 10-05-2008, 18:46
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Oh, so now samples matter again too. Good to know.

If you take this as statistically accurate you're a moron. If you take this as an informal poll of economists, you're not there yet.

It's an optional survey sent to NBER members, who work in academia. Not only is the survey skewed by party, but by # of respondents, and the overall view of those working in academia (i.e. american liberalism).

Even republicans are going to be somewhat moderate if not outright support Obama in economics and/or general policy. Not to be anecdotal, but I had a republican american history guy who tried to claim jimmah carter was the best president ever.

(Just a quick question, aren't NBER members the guys who tell us we're in a recession or not? Just wondering. They sounded familiar.)
 
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Last edited by triple; 10-05-2008 at 18:51..
Dumpy Dooby
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Old
280 - 10-05-2008, 18:49
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Originally Posted by Corossus View Post
Only one specializes in economic development, and none of us majored in econ as undergrads. I specialize in health in full disclosure.
You didn't answer my question. Why should it matter to me at all what your major was?

Quote:
But I'm more interested in why You don't like Berlin and consider him a socialist? I've never heard this interpretation before. Ive only read the excerpts given in classes, but usually he's taught as advocating individual freedoms over the "freedoms" of society. Not too much Marx in there, and I would guess notions of class consciousness would be appalling to him, but I don't know.
He viewed individualism as "negative" and found that collectivism ("positive") was necessary for a "free" society. He advocated individualism over collectivism insofar as he believed that man was too depraved to exist peacefully within a collectivist politico-economic system. I don't recall his defense, but apologists of his generally use some Nashian game theory bull**** to prove their Machiavellian hatred for man.
 
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