How to convert Unbelievers

Gil said:
All through my young life, my parents and my church taught that it was wrong to have sexual feelings for other people unless you were married. When I was 12, I saw a couple of my classmates start to get a little close. I realized that I would probably like that. (this is when I first "started noticing girls") Before this, and for a long time after, I thought my classmates were as innocent as I was. Being attracted to them was bad, and why would anyone want to be bad?

About this time I figured out what my dick was for, and began using it. I felt bad every time I did this, and tried to do so as seldom as possible. If my parents found out, they would tell me time and again how bad I was for doing it and that I should pray for forgiveness. I wasn't allowed to watch MTV or shows like 90210 in my late teens because they were too "vulgar".

One time when I was 16, a girl pointed to the bulge in my gym shorts. She was cute and was nice to me, but her interest in my package completely confused me. Girls weren't supposed to like boys, and they weren't interested in sex, or so I had learned all along. They didn't like sex, but they would go along with it if they liked the guy enough, but it was still wrong for the guy to even think about asking.


Since that time when I was 12, all I wanted to have was a girlfriend. I didn't even want to have sex -- I'd be good. I just wanted to have a close, loving connection. I prayed and prayed about it. I prayed for years. I said I would not sin, would do anything and everything I could. Then, when I didn't get it right away, I went ahead and did what I said I would, just to prove myself, in case god was testing me.

After 8 years of constant failure (I tried about 9 times across those 8 years, asking girls out, to dance, to lunch, etc) I finally gave up. If god was really testing me, then he had pushed me too far and had not only broken me but had lost a follower. He lost one of his most loyal servants, and that church lost one of its most committed members.



Since that time 6 years ago, I have learned that it's charm, charisma, and confidence that attract women, not god or church or religion. God could have taught me this and shown me the way, or ran me into a religious girl who was also awkward but would like me. But no. Either he failed, or he decided that I wasn't worth it or something. If my best wasn't good enough, then it never would have been, and he wasn't worth my time.
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First off, the sexual desire we feel within ourselves is natural and of God, be not ashamed that you have these feelings, but control them and do not give into lust or blaspheme.

I understand what you are saying about choosing a mate and the anger you have for God in regards to that issue. I do not know too much of your circumstance, but just as we do not cast doubt on the parents of your friends, I cannot cast doubt on your relationship with God. God has a plan for you that I am unaware.

Maybe God is testing you with fire and hardship before he shows you his full Glory. I was like the same, I was raised in a military Protestant family and I went to church every Sunday. I was caught up in the rituals for the sake of rituals and I never had a true relationship with God. As I got older and went to college and went away from God.

I did all of the things expected from a rebellious young college stduent...and more so. It was not until I began to become jaded and disillusioned with life in general, that I decided, very very slowly, to try and find God.

Today, I am lucky enough to call myself a child of God, for I have felt his touch and hear is Word. Even now I see his movements in my life, and know what he requires of me in terms of sacrifice. I must give up my lifestyle...and it is hard. While I am in this transitional period, I know that females will not be in it for now, and I know that other social activities I use to have fun doing are no longer available.

But I have faith that when God decided I am ready to find someone, he will deliever everything I require. I know this, because I have heard the voice in my spirit.
 
Sipher77 said:
Jesus once said that with faith anything is possible. This means I could do things that I think are impossible, if I merely had faith. Did Jesus always heal by his power alone? No, it is mentioned several times in the Bible that it was the faith of the individuals that healed them.
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Jump off a building with the faith that you can fly. Videotape for proof.
 
Plunk said:
Jump off a building with the faith that you can fly. Videotape for proof.
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It is written, do not test the Lord God.

My faith is also not that strong that I would be able to fly. My faith has to be absolute, and I am too caught up in the world to be able to do this.

Explain to me certain events that happen in the world that people regard as miracles. You hear stories of this all the time, simply google miracles and I am sure you will read many stories that science cannot explain.
 
Togowack said:
I remember when I prayed for a jeep. When I got the jeep, I recalled praying six months earlier for that exact jeep, that included details like the motor, year, suspension, and vehicle color. Of course I had been continually asking for A JEEP, but when I got one, that particular SPECIFIC prayer came to light.

There have been many more examples like this. Right now I work the best job in the world because of it. But God isn't finished with me yet.
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God didn't give you that jeep, you gave yourself that jeep. Prayer isn't a connection with god, it's an honest connection with yourself. If you can verbalize a truth or a feeling to something that isn't your ego you open up your ability to perceive and act in an honest manner because you truly know what you want for yourself. Prayer gives you honest motivation. Throw in some universal brotherly love and then you have a recipe for determined, ethical living.

In an existence where we are given an infinite degree of freedom yet are condemned to pick only one outcome it sure would be nice not needing to find my own jeeps even if I know what I want.

This is why you are flawed. You replace your ego with religion rather than brushing the whole thing off and being happy about the fact that you're free to pursue your own life. You're living for god, not yourself, which is a pity because, at least in your own head, you happen to be god since you regard him as omnipotent. Why don't you just succumb to the fact that humans can't, and shouldn't, conceptualize such a nebulous idea as one single driving force in the universe that acts on itself and encompasses all of existence. Once god is dead we are free to do anything, even quit jobs we don't like despite our religious guilt.

Out of curiosity, if a direct, tangible link to god popped up in your room in whatever form you want be it Jesus, Jehovah, Buddha, a mandala, the higgs boson, etc. and it asked you for one question which you would get an absolute answer for what would you say?
 
TV's John Basedow said:
God didn't give you that jeep, you gave yourself that jeep. Prayer isn't a connection with god, it's an honest connection with yourself. If you can verbalize a truth or a feeling to something that isn't your ego you open up your ability to perceive and act in an honest manner because you truly know what you want for yourself. Prayer gives you honest motivation. Throw in some universal brotherly love and then you have a recipe for determined, ethical living.

In an existence where we are given an infinite degree of freedom yet are condemned to pick only one outcome it sure would be nice not needing to find my own jeeps even if I know what I want.

This is why you are flawed. You replace your ego with religion rather than brushing the whole thing off and being happy about the fact that you're free to pursue your own life. You're living for god, not yourself, which is a pity because, at least in your own head, you happen to be god since you regard him as omnipotent. Why don't you just succumb to the fact that humans can't, and shouldn't, conceptualize such a nebulous idea as one single driving force in the universe that acts on itself and encompasses all of existence. Once god is dead we are free to do anything, even quit jobs we don't like despite our religious guilt.

Out of curiosity, if a direct, tangible link to god popped up in your room in whatever form you want be it Jesus, Jehovah, Buddha, a mandala, the higgs boson, etc. and it asked you for one question which you would get an absolute answer for what would you say?
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Why did Allison dump me in 11th grade?
 
Sipher77 said:
It is written, do not test the Lord God.

My faith is also not that strong that I would be able to fly. My faith has to be absolute, and I am too caught up in the world to be able to do this.

Explain to me certain events that happen in the world that people regard as miracles. You hear stories of this all the time, simply google miracles and I am sure you will read many stories that science cannot explain.
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Just because science cannot explain it right now, does not mean it never will. And just because it doesnt right now does not mean that its logical to invoke magical and supernatural explanations. 100s of years ago, we did not know why objects fell to the ground nor why the Earth orbited the Sun. Now, of course, we do.
 
Gil said:
The relationship between parent and child is first formed on the physical level. god doesn't show up on the physical level, so we cannot develop this kind of connection with him.

If he was really interested in developing this kind of bond with the rest of us, he would physically be there with us from the beginning.


It's like trying to develop a relationship with a parent, when you never see or hear from that parent, and all communication is through written letters or email.
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in addition the parent never responds to your letters or emails.
 
TV's John Basedow said:
Out of curiosity, if a direct, tangible link to god popped up in your room in whatever form you want be it Jesus, Jehovah, Buddha, a mandala, the higgs boson, etc. and it asked you for one question which you would get an absolute answer for what would you say?
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i think my question would be (this is in complete honesty), if you loved us soo much that you sacrificed your only son, how could you just sit idly by and watch us destroy ourselves through wars and consumption... and not directly influence the world and let us know you really are here.
 
Plunk said:
Just because science cannot explain it right now, does not mean it never will. And just because it doesnt right now does not mean that its logical to invoke magical and supernatural explanations. 100s of years ago, we did not know why objects fell to the ground nor why the Earth orbited the Sun. Now, of course, we do.
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This is the same way with the Lord, just because Jesus has not revealed himself in his true form yet, does not mean he never will.

2000 years ago true believers had to sacrifice bull's for a sin offering, but now all we have to do is pray for forgiveness.

I mean, God even explains how the world was created, and yet we still search for the answer in science with no results. All prophecies mentioned in the Old Testament have been fulfilled in the New Testament. I am sure you can google OT quotes and compare with NT events if you do not believe, AND since most unbelievers at least believe the historical events of the Bible happened, yet not the actual miracles and spirtuality, you have to at least wonder how could mutiple people predict events that were fulfilled thousands of years later?
 
Mudman said:
People really believe miracles in the biblical sense happen? Freak occurrences is all they are.
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Falsification of history it is. Love the bible as a wonderful piece of literature and not as a relevant account of factural reality. In reality, you cannot perform miracles, you´d have to be some place else. Sypher77 understood this when he said that he is too caught up in the world to perform miracles.
 
Togowack said:
Once you get enough answered prayers behind you, you start to develop a relationship. This is like me trying to tell you how to own players in T2 without you having the game or tried to even play. It's meaningless jibber jabber.

At this point in my life I have had at least 3 major prayers answered. This is a measurable, recorded thing for me. People often don't realize God deals in specific ways, and if you ask him something specific, you will get a specific answer.

I remember when I prayed for a jeep. When I got the jeep, I recalled praying six months earlier for that exact jeep, that included details like the motor, year, suspension, and vehicle color. Of course I had been continually asking for A JEEP, but when I got one, that particular SPECIFIC prayer came to light.

There have been many more examples like this. Right now I work the best job in the world because of it. But God isn't finished with me yet.
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WTF!?! YOU PRAYED FOR A JEEP?! And you got one... that was obviously a miracle. What kind of fucking asshole are you that you're praying for shit that you don't need when there is so much evil and suffering in the world?
 
WildKnight said:
i think my question would be (this is in complete honesty), if you loved us soo much that you sacrificed your only son, how could you just sit idly by and watch us destroy ourselves through wars and consumption... and not directly influence the world and let us know you really are here.
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God requires vessels to display his Glory and Essence. In order for this to happen, man must be tested by fire, just as steel is formed into a sword. God himself would never ask his angels to do such a task as it is sinful. The only being that would take this dirty comission with pride is Satan, the fallen angel.

The reason God tested Job with hardship by killing and taking everything Job had, was because though Job righteous and pure, he really had no conception or relationship with God. He feared him and worshipped him because he was given gifts, but he did not love him like God wanted. After these dark tribulations, Job finally realized what God required of his followers, and from then on he had a solid relationship with the Lord.

We need hardship in our life to truly understand and love God.

So I will say to all believers who read this, though you are going through hardship and pain, KNOW that God is merely forging you into a vessel, be happy in some way at least, that by the end you will be stronger in God's eyes for all your pain.
 
Sipher77 said:
We need hardship in our life to truly understand and love God.
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Are you some sort of god fetishist? Can anything have meaning for you if you don't put a shiny coat of god over it? Why can't you just stop funneling everything through god and establish a direct link with yourself and your life? Why can't you just say that we need hardships so we can be capable of feeling joy? Why does god have to come into it? :confused:
 
Sipher77 said:
This is the same way with the Lord, just because Jesus has not revealed himself in his true form yet, does not mean he never will.

2000 years ago true believers had to sacrifice bull's for a sin offering, but now all we have to do is pray for forgiveness.

I mean, God even explains how the world was created, and yet we still search for the answer in science with no results. All prophecies mentioned in the Old Testament have been fulfilled in the New Testament. I am sure you can google OT quotes and compare with NT events if you do not believe, AND since most unbelievers at least believe the historical events of the Bible happened, yet not the actual miracles and spirtuality, you have to at least wonder how could mutiple people predict events that were fulfilled thousands of years later?
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The Messianic prophecies were never fulfilled in Jesus. It´s a Christian tendency to read the Old Testament in a mutilated context and in doing so they throw a great piece of literature in front of swine.

It was never Yeshua´s intention to be haralded as the Messiah. His intention was to teach people how to love God not as slaves bound to the law, but to Love God as his Son and rightful heir! Forget the law, forget faith, forget dogma, you are the Son of God and the rightful heir to His Kingdom! This is the Good News.
 
TV's John Basedow said:
Are you some sort of god fetishist? Can anything have meaning for you if you don't put a shiny coat of god over it? Why can't you just stop funneling everything through god and establish a direct link with yourself and your life? Why can't you just say that we need hardships so we can be capable of feeling joy? Why does god have to come into it? :confused:
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Before I was saved, the only thing measure I had for my self worth was how much money I had in the bank, and how many girls I had sex with. This pleased me for a while, but when the pleasure started to fade and I realized something else was missing in my life I realized that real joy and real satisfaction comes from loving God and practicing his teachings in my life.

When I realized the importance of helping others with no intention of repayment, and loving others unconditionally, I fell in love with God's word and how it changed my life.

Though the temptation is still there occasionally to take advantage of women, or accumulate large amounts of money and cool toys, I no longer feel attached to it as the reason for my existence. I want just enough money to live and support myself. I do not want casual sex but a mutal relationship with solid foundations, a symbiotic relationship with a girl.
 
Gil said:
So you believe I asked for something, didn't get it, and stopped believing? You think I'm a spoiled child.

When I was young, I did everything I could for the church. I assisted during ministries, helped with weekly programs, sang in the choir, and worked with many projects, like vacation bible school. I did all of this, prayed every morning and night (and often a few times between) and I was charitable, kind, and giving in school and at home. I read the bible at least once or twice a year; this doesn't sound like much but consider how often an 8 or 14 year old usually does this.

But I never felt god. I never felt loved (by him or my parents). If anything, I was losing out. My devoutness was one of the main reasons I was so heavily ostracized, even by people at church. I began to realize that I was on the losing side of everything I did, and my one-sided commitment to my religion was causing me to be the sort of person that so many people tolerated only as long as they had to.


In the past 6 years, I've been getting used to the idea that I'm not a "bad" person, simply for existing. That I'm not evil because I drink and smoke. That I'm not going to hell because I get mad at people, or because I make others mad at me. I'm still trying to get used to making myself a priority, making time for myself and not marginalizing my own needs for others.


I don't mean to come down on you for the religious beliefs that benefit you. I understand that your religious choice made a definitive life change for you, and you want everyone else to benefit as you did. I want to provide a counter-point to this, to express the problems I've had with religion, not to try to persuade you to stop believing.
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you are such a fucking faggot its not even funny

but it is
 
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