Why you can't feel too bad if the American auto industry collapses.. by MadeInJapan - Page 2 - TribalWar Forums
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arsin
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21 - 11-27-2008, 16:57
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Hmmm $2 trillion for the bankers, and we don't hear much about cutting/capping the multi-millions they make in wages.

$25 billion (now more later for sure!) for the automakers and all we hear about is cutting the wages of the middle class. Which is us.

Anyone see a problem with this?
 
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amRam
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22 - 11-27-2008, 17:43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arsin View Post
Anyone see a problem with this?
Only you, and that's because you're an idiot who is taken by all the sensationalist bull**** flowing around the media these days.

What the execs at the big 3 make is a drop in the bucket compared to how much money those companies are burning through. The top execs at GM make less than $30 million a year, combined. Their company burns through 1.2 BILLION of cash per month.

If you think cutting wages of a few execs will fix anything you're a moron. The so called middle class is exactly what's costing these companies the most money.

GM has 400,000 retirees on their payroll... that's almost half a million people being paid to do nothing. Not to mention another 100,000+ active workfoce that strongarms the company into anything they want by way of union power.

But yeah, it's totally the wages of those suit and tie guys that's drowning these companies... oh yeah.
 
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Odio
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23 - 11-27-2008, 17:44
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Originally Posted by MadeInJapan View Post
Pacers and Pistons brawl
I bet a lot of these ******* fans work for them.
I bet they don't. Not unless they're from India.
 
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arsin
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24 - 11-27-2008, 18:11
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Originally Posted by amRam View Post
Only you, and that's because you're an idiot who is taken by all the sensationalist bull**** flowing around the media these days.

What the execs at the big 3 make is a drop in the bucket compared to how much money those companies are burning through. The top execs at GM make less than $30 million a year, combined. Their company burns through 1.2 BILLION of cash per month.

If you think cutting wages of a few execs will fix anything you're a moron. The so called middle class is exactly what's costing these companies the most money.

GM has 400,000 retirees on their payroll... that's almost half a million people being paid to do nothing. Not to mention another 100,000+ active workfoce that strongarms the company into anything they want by way of union power.

But yeah, it's totally the wages of those suit and tie guys that's drowning these companies... oh yeah.
Yea sure, might as well screw the middle class. Again.

The politics of envy is what drives this issue.
 
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amRam
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25 - 11-27-2008, 18:12
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Yes, it's the "politics of envy"... you got it right! Its not the fact that GM spends $1500 per car in healthcare costs, its not that their employees cost them an average of $75/hour while Honda and Toyota are at $50... it's not that they're forced to pay 400,000 people to sit at home all day long for the rest of their lives.

Its "politics of envy".

lol moron
 
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Kizzak
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26 - 11-27-2008, 18:32
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Originally Posted by amRam View Post
Yes, it's the "politics of envy"... you got it right! Its not the fact that GM spends $1500 per car in healthcare costs, its not that their employees cost them an average of $75/hour while Honda and Toyota are at $50... it's not that they're forced to pay 400,000 people to sit at home all day long for the rest of their lives.

Its "politics of envy".

lol moron
1500 per car is what.. 7.5% of the average price of a car?

health-care costs only amounting to 7.5% of the price is actually pretty good

As for the 400,000 retirees, I'm pretty sure they had a pension fund that they committed to funding - why should people suffer for the companies ****ing up their promises?
 
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Mabelrode
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27 - 11-27-2008, 18:49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amRam View Post
Yes, it's the "politics of envy"... you got it right! Its not the fact that GM spends $1500 per car in healthcare costs, its not that their employees cost them an average of $75/hour while Honda and Toyota are at $50... it's not that they're forced to pay 400,000 people to sit at home all day long for the rest of their lives.

Its "politics of envy".

lol moron
A safe retirement is the boon to every person who's labored all their life in this country.

If you don't like it, **** you, and if you're here, move.
 
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Vee
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28 - 11-27-2008, 18:52
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see if this happened every game then i would watch basketball
 
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TseTse
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29 - 11-27-2008, 18:53
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Originally Posted by Mabelrode View Post
Some of my reasons include:

Basically they've suppressed technology in favor of prolonging a higher cost to operate. We have had vastly more energy efficient propulsion ideas for cars/trucks for a decade.

I should not have to pay for your ****ty business practices & mistakes.

There will always be some new company to replace them.

These businesses always go for 'lay off workers first' to shore up their businesses when they are mismanaged. At last the managers will actually suffer. The line workers will too, but they were destined to anyway. And the line workers will be gobbled up by new startups.

They will serve as excellent examples to the coming companies to get their **** in gear [pun lol]
I personally will be tempted to riot if we bail those ****ers out without FIRING all the top executives, cutting their pay dramatically, etc. Nobody in those top 100 or whatever positions should be making over $250k. I do not believe that's required for those organizations to be "competitive" at all.
 
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TseTse
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30 - 11-27-2008, 18:56
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Originally Posted by arsin View Post
Hmmm $2 trillion for the bankers, and we don't hear much about cutting/capping the multi-millions they make in wages.

$25 billion (now more later for sure!) for the automakers and all we hear about is cutting the wages of the middle class. Which is us.

Anyone see a problem with this?
Yes.

America's primary corporate sickness is the top tier of CEOs who hop from business to business, making absurd amounts of money without adding value to the companies.

This notion that companies must hand out amazing packages to get good CEOs is retarded, and we're going to be ****ED until there's a massive backlash among stake holders against this crap. The fact that the 3 top auto CEOs flew on private jets to beg for money from Congress... and wouldnt even make a SYMBOLIC pay cut for themselves... says it all. **** all of those douchebags.

**** blaming unions. Yes, we cant afford all the retirement programs

However, the management of these companies are ****ing us as a nation.
 
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TseTse
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31 - 11-27-2008, 19:00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amRam View Post
Yes, it's the "politics of envy"... you got it right! Its not the fact that GM spends $1500 per car in healthcare costs, its not that their employees cost them an average of $75/hour while Honda and Toyota are at $50... it's not that they're forced to pay 400,000 people to sit at home all day long for the rest of their lives.

Its "politics of envy".

lol moron
The health care costs are not something worth whining about.

The unaffordable retirement costs, however, is something America needs to address.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amRam View Post
What the execs at the big 3 make is a drop in the bucket compared to how much money those companies are burning through. The top execs at GM make less than $30 million a year, combined. Their company burns through 1.2 BILLION of cash per month.

If you think cutting wages of a few execs will fix anything you're a moron. The so called middle class is exactly what's costing these companies the most money.
Nobody said that.

However, any ****ing douchebag exec making millions in salaries, millions in "bonuses," and who flies around in a private jet... who is dumb enough to fly that jet to congress to beg for billions in aid... shouldnt be running ANY ****ing company.

Their compensation is absolutely unnecessary and shows MARKET FAILURE.

Their pay SYMBOLIZES the failure of management. Too many of our business sectors and business models are management-oriented, rather than product quality, product R&D and financial efficiency oriented. The top paid people in foreign nations are the research and finance people, not the ****ing managers.

They dont add **** value... and the poor decision making of the TOP 3 CEOs in recent weeks proves the point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amRam View Post
The so called middle class is exactly what's costing these companies the most money.
You're the moron.

These companies are are failing because they are run by douchebags who care only about themselves.
 
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Last edited by TseTse; 11-27-2008 at 19:07..
amRam
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32 - 11-27-2008, 19:19
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Yes the healthcare costs ARE a problem when GM is losing $2500 per vehicle.

Toyota spends about $300 on healthcare per vehicle stateside... GM spends $1500. It may be 8% of the value of the vehicle, but it accounts for more than 70% of the loss incurred on each of those vehicles.

And no, I completely disagree with having half million people on a retiree payroll. Nobody is gonna pay my ****ing retirement when I stop working, I have to manage that part of my life myself.
 
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amRam
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33 - 11-27-2008, 19:21
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Originally Posted by TseTse View Post
Nobody said that.
Yes, everybody said that. The media implies it every time they cover stories of how much execs are being paid or that they're flying in private jets worth $30M.

The execs may not be doing a good job, but their pay is a drop in the bucket to how much these companies are losing. Whether the execs make $200,000 a year or $30,000,000 a year makes absolutely no difference in the big picture. Their pay is insignificant.

End of discussion.
 
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Kizzak
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34 - 11-27-2008, 19:51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amRam View Post
Yes the healthcare costs ARE a problem when GM is losing $2500 per vehicle.

Toyota spends about $300 on healthcare per vehicle stateside... GM spends $1500. It may be 8% of the value of the vehicle, but it accounts for more than 70% of the loss incurred on each of those vehicles.
Anything that costs about 1500 per vehicle also 'accounts for more than 70% of the loss incurred on each of those vehicles'

Quote:
And no, I completely disagree with having half million people on a retiree payroll. Nobody is gonna pay my ****ing retirement when I stop working, I have to manage that part of my life myself.
That's something that's changed over the years, it used to be that most people had pensions supported by their places of employment. Employers have been unloading those for years.
 
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amRam
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35 - 11-27-2008, 19:54
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All I was saying in my posts is that the salaries of the execs have nothing to do with the losses.

Are they doing a **** job? Yeah, probably. Would the problems go away if their salaries were cut back to 250k/year? Absolutely not. The amount of money they are being paid has nothing to do with anything.
 
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boston
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36 - 11-27-2008, 20:17
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I hear the engine on some of the trucks account for 150% of the losses. We should probably find a way to cut those.

In all seriousness, the execs shouldnt make any money at all, they should be fired. If they were worth any of the money they are getting paid, we probably wouldnt be having this discussion. I mean that would be their job right?
 
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Stilgar
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37 - 11-27-2008, 20:23
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Originally Posted by amRam View Post
Yes the healthcare costs ARE a problem when GM is losing $2500 per vehicle.

Toyota spends about $300 on healthcare per vehicle stateside... GM spends $1500. It may be 8% of the value of the vehicle, but it accounts for more than 70% of the loss incurred on each of those vehicles.

And no, I completely disagree with having half million people on a retiree payroll. Nobody is gonna pay my ****ing retirement when I stop working, I have to manage that part of my life myself.
Imagine a time when you signed onto a company that they promised to take care of you arnd yours for life.
If the Japanese can do it, why is it so distasteful to you?
Maybe you should join a union.
 
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Darkstrand
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38 - 11-27-2008, 20:28
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Originally Posted by MadeInJapan View Post
Pacers and Pistons brawl
I bet a lot of these ******* fans work for them.
in true WWF fashion
 
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amRam
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39 - 11-27-2008, 20:34
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Originally Posted by Stilgar View Post
Imagine a time when you signed onto a company that they promised to take care of you arnd yours for life.
I laugh when I imagine that. It's a ludicrous idea.

The Japanese work under a completely different set of circumstances. They are facing the same issues we're facing today, even worse.

The fact is that nobody should be promising to take care of you after you leave their company.

You work, you save, you retire, you take care of yourself.

NOT you work, you spend everything, you retire, you expect to get paid for doing nothing the rest of your life.

Bull****.
 
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Spiderman
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40 - 11-27-2008, 20:50
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I've never met a man worth one million dollars.
 
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