VeteranXV Immigrant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xion
what's the measure of terrorism? is it number of civilians killed? b/c Israel is clearly the winner in that arena. Or, is it whoever the media decides is at fault?
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Israel aims to defeat military targets, however Gaza's 'military' uses human shields, walking into a pizza place or a disco and blowing it up is not a military target unless there are Israeli soldiers in there I guess.
There are people in Gaza who just want to feed their families and don't want the whole Death to Israel thing.
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VeteranX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triple
Xion lets stop pretending you care about the plight of the palestinians, okay?
How much have you personally donated to relief organizations?
Thought so.
You just hate jews.
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Nah - I just care about hypocrisy. I care when people use sound bites and emotional opinion to draw conclusions. I don't hate jews - one of my best friends is jewish, and she's a girl that I might have married had circumstances and timing been different. That doesn't mean I think Israel is always right (or always wrong for that matter). Nor are the Pali's always right, or wrong. I just think it's hypocrisy to label them terrorists.
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VeteranX
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I can;t see youtube vids through my firewall, so I assume you're posting clips of atrocious **** done by Pali's. I never said that didn't happen. I said it's hypocracy to label what they do as terrorism, and not call Israelis on the same ****. But feel free to post pics and vids that you think prove your point. You still haven't refuted any of mine.
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VeteranXV
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you could call it atrocious
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VeteranXV Immigrant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xion
I can;t see youtube vids through my firewall, so I assume you're posting clips of atrocious **** done by Pali's. I never said that didn't happen. I said it's hypocracy to label what they do as terrorism, and not call Israelis on the same ****. But feel free to post pics and vids that you think prove your point. You still haven't refuted any of mine.
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He's posting cartoons that teach children Jews are bad mmkay
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VeteranXV
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yea its like a disney cartoon, except mickey straps a bomb to his chest and blows up 50 evil jews at the end
oh wait thats exactly like a disney cartoon
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VeteranX
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heh, well yea there's plenty that I disagree with about the culture (stoning women to death for stupid ****, for example). Teaching your kids about evil jews would fall into that category, and most certainly helps to perpetuate the problem. That doesn't make it relevant to the issue of whether or not how they fight is materially different from how Israel fights. The end result is lots of dead civilians on both sides. That's been my only point all along. You can dig up all sorts of **** on how Pali culture is ****ed up, along with most other ass backward Muslim countries. That doesn't make them "terrorists" for fighting against Israel in the only way they can, unless you want to call Israelis terrorists as well.
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VeteranXV Immigrant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xion
heh, well yea there's plenty that I disagree with about the culture (stoning women to death for stupid ****, for example). Teaching your kids about evil jews would fall into that category, and most certainly helps to perpetuate the problem. That doesn't make it relevant to the issue of whether or not how they fight is materially different from how Israel fights. That's been my only point all along. You can dig up all sorts of **** on how Pali culture is ****ed up, along with most other ass backward Muslim countries. That doesn't make them "terrorists" for fighting against Israel in the only way they can.
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Uhh, they pick civilian areas. I can see them bombing a bus with a bunch of Israeli soldiers on board or something, that would be considered a legitimate military target. ya dig?
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VeteranX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoMo
Uhh, they pick civilian areas. I can see them bombing a bus with a bunch of Israeli soldiers on board or something, that would be considered a legitimate military target. ya dig?
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I understand the difference between a civilian and military target, ya dig? You can't have it both ways. If you want to define terrorism as killing civilians, then Israel is even more of a terrorist than the Palestinians. If you want to define it as what they target, then you are starting to get so narrow in your definition as to be pretty convenient for the sake of your argument, and even then most of the "accidental" civilian deaths perpetrated by Israelis are anything but accidental. It's like "oops, we didn't mean for that huge bomb to hit that hospital, so it's an accident and not terrorism". Nice. So much for those precision strikes all that US money buys.
Add to that, as I;ve said like 18 times, the pali's can't resist Israel by simply hitting military targets. They have sticks and rocks for weapons, and whatever home made **** explosives they can hack together to blow up the occasional store / bus. So - why not hit the people that put the military in power, if that's your only option? If you choose to define acceptable warfare as just hitting military targets, then you're saying to the pali's "you are not allowed to fight back, suck it up and take the ass raping. because you're poor and can't afford equipment to hit the military, you really shouldn't do anything at all". And you expect them to do it with a smile?
edit: and even if you choose to define it that way, what the **** do they care? they are fighting for survival, you're passing judgement from 8000 miles away while you sit in your nice big house.
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Last edited by Xion; 06-03-2010 at 13:37..
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VeteranXV Immigrant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xion
I understand the difference between a civilian and military target, ya dig? You can't have it both ways. If you want to define terrorism as killing civilians, then Israel is even more of a terrorist than the Palestinians. If you want to define it as what they target, then you are starting to get so narrow in your definition as to be pretty convenient for the sake of your argument, and even then most of the "accidental" civilian deaths perpetrated by Israelis are anything but accidental. It's like "oops, we didn't mean for that huge bomb to hit that hospital, so it's an accident and not terrorism". Nice. So much for those precision strikes all that US money buys.
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"oops we hit that hospital" is not the same as "oops I walked into the nearest pizza place and my suicide vest accidentally went off"
Quote:
Add to that, as I;ve said like 18 times, the pali's can't resist Israel by simply hitting military targets. They have sticks and rocks for weapons, and whatever home made **** explosives they can hack together to blow up the occasional store / bus. So - why not hit the people that put the military in power, if that's your only option? If you choose to define acceptable warfare as just hitting military targets, then you're saying to the pali's "you are not allowed to fight back, suck it up and take the ass raping. because you're poor and can't afford equipment to hit the military, you really shouldn't do anything at all". And you expect them to do it with a smile?
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How about they don't attack the Israelis in the first place? I read about K(Q)assam rockets being fired almost daily into Israel from Gaza. I don't read about that much violence coming from the West Bank from either side at this time. The west bank is working toward peace, Gaza is working towards war.
Quote:
edit: and even if you choose to define it that way, what the **** do they care? they are fighting for survival, you're passing judgement from 8000 miles away while you sit in your nice big house.
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Again, I bring up the west bank point above ^
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VeteranX
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Xion I think the difference which you don't get in defining which side is the terrorist is this: the Hamas targets civilians, while Israel targets the Hamas' military forces, which, unfortunetly, hides in civilian areas and uses them as a human shield.
That's the main difference. Both sides use force, there is no doubt about that. Hamas wants to kill and hurt civilians, while Israel wants to kill the Hamas militants.
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VeteranX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedge
Xion I think the difference which you don't get in defining which side is the terrorist is this: the Hamas targets civilians, while Israel targets the Hamas' military forces, which, unfortunetly, hides in civilian areas and uses them as a human shield.
That's the main difference. Both sides use force, there is no doubt about that. Hamas wants to kill and hurt civilians, while Israel wants to kill the Hamas militants.
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Thats been explained to him a few times already. Hopefully he is just trolling, but it really seems like he is just to ignorant/stupid to understand the difference.
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VeteranX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoMo
"oops we hit that hospital" is not the same as "oops I walked into the nearest pizza place and my suicide vest accidentally went off"
How about they don't attack the Israelis in the first place? I read about K(Q)assam rockets being fired almost daily into Israel from Gaza. I don't read about that much violence coming from the West Bank from either side at this time. The west bank is working toward peace, Gaza is working towards war.
Again, I bring up the west bank point above ^
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You missed my point. I thought it was pretty clear that the hypothetical "oops we hit that hospital" was more "hey let's blow that ****ing hospital up because they treated some Hamas guys, and then we'll just say it was an accident for the media". So then yea, it would be the same as "oops I walked into the nearest pizza place and my suicide vest went off".
How about Israelis don't attack the Pali's in the first place? Your argument pre-supposes that Israel is always the one hitting back, that the Pali's are always the instigator, the aggressor. Rocket attacks from Gaza are almost always retaliation for some dumb **** Israelis did in the preceding weeks or months.
On what basis do you say the west bank is working for peace, and Gaza is not? Seems to me they are both working towards war.
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VeteranX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darklord
Thats been explained to him a few times already. Hopefully he is just trolling, but it really seems like he is just to ignorant/stupid to understand the difference.
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I'm not trolling, and I already commented on that:
Quote:
Add to that, as I;ve said like 18 times, the pali's can't resist Israel by simply hitting military targets. They have sticks and rocks for weapons, and whatever home made **** explosives they can hack together to blow up the occasional store / bus. So - why not hit the people that put the military in power, if that's your only option? If you choose to define acceptable warfare as just hitting military targets, then you're saying to the pali's "you are not allowed to fight back, suck it up and take the ass raping. because you're poor and can't afford equipment to hit the military, you really shouldn't do anything at all". And you expect them to do it with a smile?
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If I were trolling, I'd expect to see people actually refuting my points. I haven't seen that yet.
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VeteranX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xion
They have sticks and rocks for weapons, and whatever home made **** explosives they can hack together to blow up the occasional store / bus. So - why not hit the people that put the military in power, if that's your only option?
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Translation: I think terrorism and murdering women and children is ok (as long as you're poor)
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Veteran++
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triple
the palestinians? **** them. if they're sick of being **** on by the israelis then they should probably start electing non-terrorists to head their government.
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Menachim Begin is a terrorist.
ordered ... the destruction of the central British administrative offices in the King David Hotel. — Jewish Virtual Library
Yitzhak Shamir is a terrorist.
was the operations commander, and later leader, of the Stern Gang, a terrorist group which was responsible for a string of political assassinations.
Ariel Sharon is a terrorist.
initiated the Sabra-Shatila massacre in which between 1000 and 3000 people (mostly Palestinians) were murdered. He was held responsible for this.
He is best known as the commander of the notorious Unit 101, Sharon led attacks on Palestinian villages in which women and children were killed. The massacre in the West Bank village of Qibya, on October 14, 1953, was perhaps the most notorious. His troops blew up 45 houses and 69 Palestinian civilians — about half of them women and children were killed — The Electronic Intifada
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