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Sipher77
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241 - 07-03-2008, 00:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby View Post
According to Jesus, the Gentiles would have to convert to Judaism, because the Jews are the path to salvation.
light for revelation to the Gentiles" (Lk 2:32)
 
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Hive_Tyrant
Clambaked5
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242 - 07-03-2008, 00:29
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How about you find me one credible historian or theologian that agrees with the Jesus myth hypothesis?
So you can't prove that he DID exist, so you're challenging me to prove that he didn't? That's a cop out Dooby, but then when you back yourself into this particular corner you don't have anywhere else to go.

I don't have to have anyone on my side. I'm saying - he's a myth. You're saying 'there's a mountain of evidence he existed'. I'm saying - show me ONE.

I say again, show me a single shred of evidence he existed as a man or otherwise. A minute ago you had a 'mountain of evidence'.

P.S. You should read the 'third'
 
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interface
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243 - 07-03-2008, 00:32
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Originally Posted by Hive_Tyrant View Post
So you can't prove that he DID exist, so you're challenging me to prove that he didn't? That's a cop out Dooby, but then when you back yourself into this particular corner you don't have anywhere else to go.

I don't have to have anyone on my side. I'm saying - he's a myth. You're saying 'there's a mountain of evidence he existed'. I'm saying - show me ONE.

I say again, show me a single shred of evidence he existed as a man or otherwise. A minute ago you had a 'mountain of evidence'.

P.S. You should read the 'third'
Show me evidence that Aristotle existed, other than what he supposedly wrote. Got any fossils? This argument is bull**** and you know it.
 
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escapedturkey
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244 - 07-03-2008, 00:34
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If god was before everything else, who made evil or the ability for evil to exist?
 
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Hive_Tyrant
Clambaked5
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245 - 07-03-2008, 00:35
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Show me evidence that Aristotle existed, other than what he supposedly wrote. Got any fossils? This argument is bull**** and you know it.
Until you produce something, he was a cumination of myths cooked up by regurgitating older myths to use as a control tool. Period. You can have 'faith' all you want, but you'd be just as well served worshiping this awesome sandwich I just made (it has fried plantains and steak in it!)

And who said Aristotle DID exist? I've never researched it, but he may have had a ghost writer like 'Christ'.
 
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Sipher77
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246 - 07-03-2008, 00:36
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Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby View Post
According to Jesus, the Gentiles would have to convert to Judaism, because the Jews are the path to salvation.
"Is it not written, 'My house shall be called a house of prayer for all the nations?' But you have made it a den of robbers." (Mark 11:15-17)

All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations...." (Matthew 28:18,19)

"You are the sons of the prophets and of the covenant which God gave to your fathers, saying to Abraham, 'And in your posterity shall all the families of the earth be blessed.' God, having raised up his servant, sent him to you first, to bless you in turning every one of you from your wickedness." (Acts 3:25,26)

For I am not ashamed of the gospel: it is the power of God for salvation to every one who has faith, to the Jew first and also to the Greek (Gentile). (1:16; cf. 2:9,10)
 
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node
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247 - 07-03-2008, 00:36
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Originally Posted by interface View Post
Show me evidence that Aristotle existed, other than what he supposedly wrote. Got any fossils? This argument is bull**** and you know it.
I have none, and am too lazy to search therefore Aristotle must be at the bottom of my glass.

Will update shortly with results.
 
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Dumpy Dooby
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248 - 07-03-2008, 00:38
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Originally Posted by escapedturkey View Post
If god was before everything else, who made evil or the ability for evil to exist?
Well, that depends on how you interpret scripture. I can give you a complete rundown on how the first creation story of the Bible (Gen 1) is allegory for atemporal presence of evil. But then there's another account in Issiah that claims that God is the creator of evil (creator of light and darkness, peace and "calamity").

The argument can be made either way.
 
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claudius
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249 - 07-03-2008, 00:41
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I just talked to Aristotle on the phone. He said he's in the first circle of Hell.
 
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Sipher77
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250 - 07-03-2008, 00:41
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Originally Posted by escapedturkey View Post
If god was before everything else, who made evil or the ability for evil to exist?
Good question. I believe that the world God created was sinless, until Eve took the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge, consumed it, and gave it it Adam.

The Tree of Knowledge gave us the ability to know what was right and what was wrong, therefore sin which did not exist before then, came into existence.

I liken this to finally finding a good Italian restaurant. In your mind this good Italian restuarant did not exist until you stumbled upon it.
 
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hyung
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251 - 07-03-2008, 00:41
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This thread is great guys well done!
 
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escapedturkey
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252 - 07-03-2008, 00:43
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Originally Posted by Sipher77 View Post
The Tree of Knowledge gave us the ability to know what was right and what was wrong, therefore sin which did not exist before then, came into existence.
Did sin exist before god, or did god create sin, or did god create the ability for sin to create itself?
 
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Sipher77
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253 - 07-03-2008, 00:44
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Did sin exist before god, or did god create sin, or did god create the ability for sin to create itself?
Very interesting. I think that what God does not like is sin. So I believe that sin has always existed. Basically what God does not like. It did not become real to us mortals until we ate from the Tree of Knowledge.
 
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Hive_Tyrant
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254 - 07-03-2008, 00:44
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Let's start with something easy. Explain the direct plagiarism of the Christ myth in regards to all of the other 'savior' myths that came hundreds of years before him.

Virgin births, star in the north, dates, etc. You know - the other myths his myth was ripped off from like Attis of Phrygia, Dionysus/Bacchus, Horus/Osiris of Egypt, Krishna of India, Mithra of Persia, or Zoroaster/Zarathustra (just to name a few).

You have to admit some very STRIKING similarities. I'm curious what the Christian response to these are. In fact, let's tone this down a notch and get an actual discussion going. I'd really like to know how Christians explain this. If you don't know, take your time and read up on them a bit and get back to me. I'm in no hurry.
 
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escapedturkey
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255 - 07-03-2008, 00:45
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Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby View Post
Well, that depends on how you interpret scripture. I can give you a complete rundown on how the first creation story of the Bible (Gen 1) is allegory for atemporal presence of evil. But then there's another account in Issiah that claims that God is the creator of evil (creator of light and darkness, peace and "calamity").

The argument can be made either way.
Nicely said. That's always been the most crucial question, in my opinion. The actual answer determines the responsibility of everything that is occurring -- in the context of good and evil.
 
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Zulu
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256 - 07-03-2008, 00:46
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Originally Posted by Hive_Tyrant View Post
Dumpy, you may want to get TseTse in here. You might need help on this one.
Please no, we don't need a regurgitation of The Davinci Code....again.
 
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escapedturkey
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257 - 07-03-2008, 00:46
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Originally Posted by Sipher77 View Post
Very interesting. I think that what God does not like is sin. So I believe that sin has always existed. Basically what God does not like. It did not become real to us mortals until we ate from the Tree of Knowledge.
I realize you are talking about god's preference. I'm curious to know if god is ultimately responsible for the creation, concept, and application of sin.

Are you saying that sin existed before god?
 
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Dumpy Dooby
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258 - 07-03-2008, 00:47
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Originally Posted by Hive_Tyrant View Post
So you can't prove that he DID exist, so you're challenging me to prove that he didn't? That's a cop out Dooby, but then when you back yourself into this particular corner you don't have anywhere else to go.
Read the 'second' link you posted.

By the way, you'll notice that if you search for posts by me containing any of the authors listed as "Recent proponents" in that article, I have talked about their works and even cited some of their stuff in previous discussions. Again, stop pretending that you're presenting something new and edgy here. The position touted in The God Who Wasn't There is complete hogwash. Doherty and Price both have views with which I can agree, with me agreeing far more with Price than Doherty ... and that's not to mention that Price is far more respected in the field.
 
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interface
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259 - 07-03-2008, 00:48
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I'm about to wrap up here and play some UT3 or Savage2 but I want to close with this -

I've been a part of this community since around 2000 and in 2004 I let my guard down and went to a Bible study because my wife nagged me. I went and my worldview was permanently altered. I went through an 18 month period of a type of high during which time I was a for-real Jesus-freak. For the past couple of years, the puppy love has ended and I'm dealing with my same old temptations and sins but the difference is that I have a purpose, I have hope, and when the world shakes I have something firm to stand on.

If the day comes in your life when all turns lead to a dead end and you realize that nothing you can say, buy, do, or consume can fill that hole...remember this thread from tonight and just say to the air what Sipher opened the thread with. Don't expect shock and awe; expect hope.
 
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fartiusstinkius
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260 - 07-03-2008, 00:48
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Originally Posted by Sipher77 View Post
Very interesting. I think that what God does not like is sin. So I believe that sin has always existed. Basically what God does not like. It did not become real to us mortals until we ate from the Tree of Knowledge.



 
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