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SecretSquirrel
VeteranXV
Old
21 - 03-19-2017, 16:46
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By its own inefficiency, a totally socialist system will break down. Why should a giant company be in control of the production and distribution of all chickens if the people have a hill in back of their barrio perfect fro growing chickens on?

It only takes one bad decision in a large socialist bureau to create a new "king" who will only give certain people chickens. The very system built to insure production and protection for the people is now used against them. Welcome to Russia, and it is not the ownership of production that is critical, but the control over it. Masterblaster can cut off your power, as in Mad Max Thunderdome, any time he wants, as Tina Turner finds out.

Since they put up the downtown sports arena here, rents have went up all over downtown Sacramento. And it's just the idea, the speculation that people will find it desirable to live downtown, even if the arena is 20 blocks away. There are chain link fences going up around vacant lots that no one has ever used to protect them.

From what? Based on the idea that all the rents went up, the downtown arena was a bad idea for 95% of the people who actually live in downtown and in midtown. For 5% it's a windfall based on shaky logic, and repeats the boom/bust thinking that led up to 2007. They even raised parking all over the place to pay for the arena. Almost everyone is paying for it hard, and families are moving out and adjusting down so they can make rent. That's a lot of social commotion for a few already wealthy people to get wealthier.
 
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Last edited by SecretSquirrel; 03-19-2017 at 16:49..
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Danno
VeteranXX
Old
22 - 03-19-2017, 17:52
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Stupid observation on my part but one of those people in that video had braces. Why is that not making sense to me?
 
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bowl of blood
Veteran++
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Old
23 - 03-19-2017, 17:54
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i got once sentence in and since when is socialism "hard left" lol
 
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Piata
VeteranXX
Old
24 - 03-19-2017, 18:36
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This thread is ****ing stupid. South America is generally a **** hole no matter how a country's government is run.

There are a ****ton of socialist countries that have a better quality of life than America, including Denmark, Norway, Iceland, Canada, New Zealand and a whole lot more.

The fact that Americans feel partisan hit pieces like this are even worth watching (let alone discussing) is proof your education system is broken and your country is ****ing doomed.
 
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T-Dawg
VeteranXX
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Old
25 - 03-19-2017, 18:47
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The problem with socialism is, eventually you run out of other people's money.
 
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Fool
Whiny BitchX
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Old
26 - 03-19-2017, 18:52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piata View Post
There are a ****ton of socialist countries that have a better quality of life than America, including Denmark, Norway, Iceland, Canada, New Zealand and a whole lot more.
Having a social welfare system does not make a country socialist.
 
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Captain Tele
Veteran³
Immigrant
Old
27 - 03-19-2017, 22:09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaen View Post
you can't personally own production in socialist countries or its not socialist
i don't think people get this part

bros...just get some chickens

It costs $150 to buy a dozen eggs in Venezuela right now - LA Times

yeah, and then people take your chickens

steal your eggs

either the mobs of poor people who are hungry or the government for selling something you aren't allowed to (crimes of capitalism)

i mean the video explicitly shows that the POLICE are there to enforce this racket for the elite class....not to protect you from others or uphold society

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racket_(crime)

i mean we never learn......same **** over and over

never anything learned
 
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Captain Tele
Veteran³
Immigrant
Old
28 - 03-19-2017, 22:13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SecretSquirrel View Post
By its own inefficiency, a totally socialist system will break down. Why should a giant company be in control of the production and distribution of all chickens if the people have a hill in back of their barrio perfect fro growing chickens on?

It only takes one bad decision in a large socialist bureau to create a new "king" who will only give certain people chickens. The very system built to insure production and protection for the people is now used against them. Welcome to Russia, and it is not the ownership of production that is critical, but the control over it. Masterblaster can cut off your power, as in Mad Max Thunderdome, any time he wants, as Tina Turner finds out.

Since they put up the downtown sports arena here, rents have went up all over downtown Sacramento. And it's just the idea, the speculation that people will find it desirable to live downtown, even if the arena is 20 blocks away. There are chain link fences going up around vacant lots that no one has ever used to protect them.

From what? Based on the idea that all the rents went up, the downtown arena was a bad idea for 95% of the people who actually live in downtown and in midtown. For 5% it's a windfall based on shaky logic, and repeats the boom/bust thinking that led up to 2007. They even raised parking all over the place to pay for the arena. Almost everyone is paying for it hard, and families are moving out and adjusting down so they can make rent. That's a lot of social commotion for a few already wealthy people to get wealthier.
just got back from sacramento noticed the same thing

holy hell that place is bad

first two or three blocks around capital all boarded up

nothing but homeless people everywhere you go



like this but not as classy

looking just like San Bernadino these days
 
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Captain Tele
Veteran³
Immigrant
Old
29 - 03-19-2017, 22:15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piata View Post
This thread is ****ing stupid. South America is generally a **** hole no matter how a country's government is run.

There are a ****ton of socialist countries that have a better quality of life than America, including Denmark, Norway, Iceland, Canada, New Zealand and a whole lot more.

The fact that Americans feel partisan hit pieces like this are even worth watching (let alone discussing) is proof your education system is broken and your country is ****ing doomed.
you got part of this right



thank goodness the left side is displacing the right side of that curve there

and by there i mean everywhere
 
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Last edited by Captain Tele; 03-19-2017 at 22:29..
Morganstern
VeteranXV
Old
30 - 03-19-2017, 22:29
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You can't compare Venezuela to the US first of all and second socializing health care to make it health care wouldn't be a bad thing.
 
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Captain Tele
Veteran³
Immigrant
Old
31 - 03-19-2017, 22:42
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LOL

even apples don't taste like apples when i expected oranges



next time it will work for sure
 
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amRam
VeteranXX
Contributor
Old
32 - 03-19-2017, 23:20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piata View Post
This thread is ****ing stupid. South America is generally a **** hole no matter how a country's government is run.

There are a ****ton of socialist countries that have a better quality of life than America, including Denmark, Norway, Iceland, Canada, New Zealand and a whole lot more.

The fact that Americans feel partisan hit pieces like this are even worth watching (let alone discussing) is proof your education system is broken and your country is ****ing doomed.
lol

Canada is socialist..... Apparently...
 
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Piata
VeteranXX
Old
33 - 03-19-2017, 23:41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amRam View Post
lol

Canada is socialist..... Apparently...
Lets see... Canada has:
- employment insurance
- universal healthcare
- 1 year paid maternity leave
- government run pension plan

Probably forgetting a bunch of other stuff but its absolutely more socialist than capitalist.
 
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Captain Tele
Veteran³
Immigrant
Old
34 - 03-19-2017, 23:47
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Guys this doesn't prove anything

it is just South America issues
Central American issues
African issues
Middle-East issues
it failed to work in Far East for Centuries

but will surely not be the fall of Western society one day real soon

Quote:
Glad you mentioned Rhodesia. I was going to add it, but the post got fairly long already.

Rhodesia was quite possibly the most prosperous African nation of its time and well on its way to an egalitarian society in which educated whites and blacks shared in the role of government. It had the highest literacy rate of any African nation, the lowest poverty rate among both whites and blacks, and did not have apartheid laws like South Africa at the time, meaning that any white or black citizen with enough education could vote and take on governmental roles. Schools were free, healthcare was readily available and affordable for all, and what’s more, the Rhodesian government worked hand in hand with the tribal councils to not only ensure that the indigenous tribes had a say in government but that their centuries-old ways of life would not be forcibly changed in the name of “progress”.

Where it all went wrong was with the UK thinking that what worked for them on their little island would work for all the colonies, as well. They believes that simply handing over control of a partially developed nation to a governmentally underdeveloped people wouldn’t cause an immediate upheaval in that country’s socioeconomic well-being. Rhodesians had seen what happened in Kenya and other postcolonial majority-rule countries (i.e., ****, murder, looting, and economic collapse) and not want that to happen to them. This is whites AND blacks.

So, to avoid the inevitable upheaval they saw coming should the British hand over the country to the masses, the Rhodesians (black and white) got behind the Rhodesian Front party, led by Ian Smith. This angered the British to no end, because despite their agreement to grant independence, they wanted it to be on ‘majority rules’ terms. Rhodesia’s hand was forced for another reason. When the British abandoned their colonies to home rule, a power vacuum was created that rapidly filled with communist subverts from the USSR and China. The same happened in Portuguese Mozambique and Angola. In fact, Mugabe and Nkomo (the two terrorist leaders of the two “liberation armies”) were already well-versed and backed by the USSR, China, and their satellites (North Korea and Cuba) with training, indoctrination, and weapons.

As such, Rhodesia knew they would immediately enter a conflict with what were ultimately outside forces, but at least they’d have a strong central government. Then the US stepped in. For two reasons: first, to shift the focus away from our own racial issues, and second, to ensure that our allies in South Africa maintained a grip on the power of southern Africa. The US and UK refused to recognize the independence of Rhodesia and agreed with the communists to blockade the government there from receiving arms or monetary aid. This, of course, didn’t stop the communists from sending weapons to their terrorists, and Rhodesia continued to receive funding through South Africa and Portugal (until it pulled out of Mozambique). We even continued funding them via the RSA and through purchases of chrome.

Meanwhile, without outside aid, Rhodesia was essentially surrounded by African nationalist groups funded by the USSR and China. These terrorists groups controlled tribal lands, conscripted men at gunpoint, and murdered their families if they refused. These men only fought halfheartedly against the Rhodesians, continuing raids on outlying farms and farmers. The murders of the Viscounts, as well as the toll being taken on the youth of Rhodesia, was unsustainable after a decade of fighting. Ian Smith’s government won all the battles–every single last engagement went the way of the Rhodesian forces–but they lost the war of attrition. Finally, international pressure forced the RSA to stop supplying Rhodesia with arms, and they were forced to establish a new government for a new country called “Rhodesia-Zimbabwe”.

Rhodesia-Zimbabwe would have worked very well. The government was elected universally by white and black citizens, and the educational restraints on voting were lifted for universal suffrage. Whites and blacks were voted into office, but that wasn’t good enough for the British. The US and UK refused to recognize the elected government of Rhodesia-Zimbabwe unless Mugabe and Nkomo were allowed to participate (even though they and their armies had renounced citizenship). In the end, the government had to accede and Mugabe moved his army in and forced people to vote for him at gunpoint. He won in a landslide, imposed communist rule, and… didn’t become a dictator immediately. Rhodesia limped along for nine years until Mugabe decided the free market was a good thing and lifted socialist and communist restrictions on trade.

After that, it was like the Roaring Twenties in Zimbabwe. Whites and blacks were educated, they prospered, and they were a net exporter of food. But Mugabe’s hangers-on were dissatisfied that they weren’t living in the palaces they imagined, and thus they gathered their troops and marched on Harare to demand compensation for their effort during the war. Mugabe started taking farms from people who knew what they were doing, divided them up, and gave them to his ex-soldiers. He then started persecuting successful whites and anyone who spoke out against his decisions.

Ultimately, Mugabe ran the country into the ground. He had white farmers either murdered or run out of the country, and he cleansed the Matabele people from his rival army during the war. Now anyone who opposes him risks being thrown into prison or worse. Roy Bennet, for example, has spent more years in prison in Zimbabwe than out. He’s currently in exile in the RSA, doing what he can. Morgan Tsvangirai, leader of the Movement for Democratic Change, had some control over the government for roughly four years, but Mugabe kept stealing elections and forced Tsvangirai into exile again. When Tsvangirai was in power, the government’s ability to print money was shut down. Zimbabwe now uses the US Dollar and the Euro. This helped combat the ventihyperinflation facing the country. It also helped get the healthcare system back on track and began to tackle the AIDS epidemic that Mugabe refuses to acknowledge.

To actually fix anything, even after Mugabe’s death, the RSA or UN would have to impose change, but they’re milquetoasts–unwilling to go against the African Union, comprised mostly of dictators. Zambia and Botswana are luring the few remaining white Zimbabweans away with promises of land grants and assistance in setting up farms and plantations in their countries.



~:~



Around 1989, a lot of people started leaving. A lot of the experienced civil servants that ran the country prior to black rule were being sacked and replaced with patronage positions. This was consistent whether the individual being replaced was black or white, because to the victor goes the spoils. At least we still had running water, electricity that was consistent, and the roads were being maintained. However one could tell it was not going to last.

I left in 1994, when things started to go downhill. The blackouts started happening. The electricity board was inexplicably losing funds. Next was the water supply; leaks were springing up, and instead of being fixed, they were left. This caused places that were high up to lose pressure, and thus water altogether. People had to drill bore holes (if they lived in an area with ground water), and get their water from there. This, of course, affected farming, the mainstay of our economy. Reservoir maintenance completely stopped, and because the complainers were white farmers they were ignored or pillared in the media, which was showing signs of becoming highly centralized and controlled. Next, the telephone lines and sewage stopped working. The sewage system needed spare parts, but funds were missing. Telephone lines were being stolen and not replaced. Once again, missing funds. The rains of 1990 I remember being bad, causing huge potholes in the road. Normally this would have been fixed in short order, but, again, the money was being stolen and there no money existed for the roads. To put this in context, the streets and roads of Salisbury (now Harare), used to be washed with water, every morning at around 5am. In a landlocked country. In Africa.



Now when I go, I see Africans in the capital trying to wash their clothes in puddles in the street.



~:~



I visited Zimbabwe for work in 2005 or thereabouts and got accosted by blacks begging for jobs. They told us clearly that they wanted whites back because whites brought jobs. At the same time, they seemed upset that whites owned farms and said we should start up industries instead so they blacks could get good jobs in factories. I was very pleased to leave. It was sad, because wherever you went you could see vestiges of what the country had once been. You’d see large abandoned farms in the distance, surrounded by huts and shanties (the whites had left and the blacks had tried to farm the land but didn’t understand how).

In the cities, you’d see large 1960s and ‘70s-era buildings that must have been impressive office developments once, but now looked dilapidated and had broken windows. You’d see large houses with old swimming pools, broken windows, and collapsed roofs that had been taken over by armies of black squatters who lived one family to a room and used the pool as a communal toilet. These things were much worse than the shanty towns because they were evidence of a societal breakdown. A shanty town is just a collection of poor people living in crappy improvised housing. What we saw in Zimbabwe was a place that had once been prosperous, beautiful, and safe but which had been turned into a living hell.



The sad thing is that the blacks didn’t understand why things were that way. One of them told me that they had no electricity because the white man was cruel and had switched it off. Another told me that they used to have clean water but the white man poisoned it and that’s why they got sick. The HIV/AIDS conspiracy theories were everywhere and all revolved around whitey. They couldn’t understand the concept of power stations, water treatment facilities, or sewers. They barely grasped that cars need petrol.
stories from the battle fields of Rhodesia

Why Is South Africa Being Stirred Up? | Zero Hedge

the next domino to fall in the "greater good" collectivist battle
 
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thaen
VeteranXV
Old
35 - 03-20-2017, 01:18
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lots of people rail against capitalism in the US but what they are really against is CRONY capitalism, ie when certain entities get benefits under the table. those folks who look at socialism as the next try, as it were, remember: that people will go on strike when they are in unprofitable situations. another reason socialism and communism fail is nobody does anything in the absence of positive incentives. an old soviet joke went "They pretend to pay us, and we pretend to work". when you have no skin in the game there's less reasons to give a **** and then the country's economy goes to ****.
 
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Brasstax
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36 - 03-20-2017, 01:39
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Most socialists are anti-social.
 
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