Vermont moves closer to universal health care ‎

DrMeithos said:
Medicare has a $38 trillion projected shortfall, Medicare donut hole
Click to expand...

Medicare is more efficient than private insurance companies. The funding shortfall has nothing to do with efficiency and all to do with how it is funded.

DrMeithos said:
VA is terrible at everything except the GI Bill. Anyone who is envious of VA hospitals has never been in a VA hospital.
Click to expand...

While this may be true, it isn't the same thing as what Vermont is attempting. I would agree that the U.S. attempting to go the NHS route (Great Brittan) would be a disaster. Vermont is basically just going to insure people, every thing else remains private.

DrMeithos said:
US military was never civilian, is terribly inefficient, and is hiring more efficient contractors.
Click to expand...

One word..

U.S. Militia

DrMeithos said:
(idk anything about oil production in Europe, except that gas is like $10/gal)

Police, libraries, fire depts, lifeguards hah, park rangers, roads, dams, bridges have never been private sector and aren't comparable. (besides, libraries, park rangers, roads, dams, bridges are very inefficient). I asked which industry has been taken over by the government and then became more efficient.
Click to expand...

False.

DrMeithos said:
You don't think that health insurance companies are regulated at all? Employer based health insurance tax incentive but no individual incentive, you can't buy across state lines, states mandate practically what every plan must cover, some states forbid catastrophic coverage... health care is one of the most regulated industries there is.
Click to expand...

No doubt, and it will remain so regardless. They need to be regulated or they will fuck you dry which they manage to do now even though they are regulated by the states.
 
DrMeithos said:
Medicare has a $38 trillion projected shortfall, Medicare donut hole
Click to expand...

Cost growth, as with the VA, is 3-10 times less than private care. Funding it is an issue...when you give the money to the richest in such an insanely irresponsible manner as the Bush tax cuts did. It's hard to hold out hope that we'll ever recover from them frankly.

VA is terrible at everything except the GI Bill. Anyone who is envious of VA hospitals has never been in a VA hospital.
Click to expand...

Great story! The research says the opposite but you're entitled to your imagination-based position.

US military was never civilian
Click to expand...

Minutemen.

is terribly inefficient
Click to expand...

Another imaginary artifact, nice. Contractors get triple the pay of the soldiers...not that I begrudge guys getting shot at getting paid, but shouldn't we use that money to pay and equip the guys who took an oath (and conveniently have an actual chain of command, standard of training, logistics infrastructure...oh never fucking mind)?

and is hiring more efficient contractors.
Click to expand...

For fuck sake, so soon?


Police, libraries, fire depts, lifeguards hah, park rangers, roads, dams, bridges have never been private sector and aren't comparable. (besides, libraries, park rangers, roads, dams, bridges are very inefficient). I asked which industry has been taken over by the government and then became more efficient.
Click to expand...

Of course they have, who did it before those services were public, dufus? Who contracted out for roads before government financed it? Private parties, ie, random mulecarts, and it wasn't considered to be terribly efficient until we elected a Hussein Obama.


You don't think that health insurance companies are regulated at all?
Click to expand...

Not nearly enough on a federal level.

Employer based health insurance tax incentive but no individual incentive
Click to expand...

I'm confused, do you want more regulation here or less? I'm all for moving the system away from employment...that's exactly what a public option does. Obamacare does this to a certain extent.

you can't buy across state lines
Click to expand...

Your shitty Alabama coverage is illegal in California. Will of the people and all that. What you just said is you'd like a federal regulation requiring us to sell that shit here...get your story straight.

states mandate practically what every plan must cover, some states forbid catastrophic coverage...
Click to expand...

Again, that sounds like you would prefer a federal regulation requiring states offer that coverage... aren't the states supposed to make that call, like California did? I'm all for getting some sane standards nationally, but you're all over the place. What do you want, other than a broken system to fix itself magically by the power of your ideology?

health care is one of the most regulated industries there is.
Click to expand...

As you just pointed out, while it is highly regulated on a state level, there's nothing to enforce a minimum standard on a national level, and patchwork pirate system is not working.
 
Last edited:
Cut funding to government programs for decades -> Point to said programs as evidence of government inefficiency.

:lolwut:
 
private insurance companies are doing well because they're raping us.

not defending medicare, or a single payer system.

just saying. we're getting raped.
 
Detox.enD said:
private insurance companies are doing well because they're raping us.
Click to expand...
Oh I get it. They should just give us free healthcare...

Great idea. No rape there whatsoever :rolleyes:


I mean, the insurance companies couldn't be raising premiums because of anyone already raping the system or anything.


No way. Uh-uh. No sir.
 
FngrBANG said:
Oh I get it. They should just give us free healthcare...

Great idea. No rape there whatsoever :rolleyes:


I mean, the insurance companies couldn't be raising premiums because of anyone already raping the system or anything.


No way. Uh-uh. No sir.
Click to expand...

As someone who works in the health care system, i find it absolutely laughable that you would approach a comment like 'the insurance companies are raping us' with the sarcastic response of 'well, then it should be free'.

the amount of wasted money in red tape, unneeded procedures, bullshit tests, and people who don't pay their bills is what kills the system. as does the ever-increasing cost of mal practice insurance due to the 10% of doctors that actually have to use it on a regular basis and should be removed from practice, but aren't because noone wants to be the one to point out their fellow doctor should lose their job.

add to that the fact that insurance companies do whatever they can to get out of a claim, and you have the disgusting mess we have.

you're a nurse. you're well aware of the situation. you know how i know? because i'm marreid to a nurse, and after 4 years of experience she's well aware of how fucked up the system is. if you're not aware of it, than you're dumber than we all thought.

so stop being a dipshit.
 
ZOD said:
One word..

U.S. Militia

No doubt, and it will remain so regardless. They need to be regulated or they will fuck you dry which they manage to do now even though they are regulated by the states.
Click to expand...

I don't got time for the other stuff. US Militia: you mean the guys who weren't paid for months/years at a time and lived at Valley Forge for their barracks and beat the most powerful military in the world? That's fucking efficient. ;)


On HC: You can say the same exact thing about any other industry. "Bank industry would rape you dry," "phone industry will rape you dry..." I hear so much about the "race to the bottom" bs, when in reality when there is little regulation all I've seen is a race to the top because the top makes the most money. The only time when we, as consumers, as a whole, really get fucked over by an industry like what you're talking about is when there's no competition. Because of this stupid state line boundary crap, I can only shop among like 6 companies and it's almost impossible for new ones to get started b/c of the regulations.
 
DrMeithos said:
I don't got time for the other stuff. US Militia: you mean the guys who weren't paid for months/years at a time and lived at Valley Forge for their barracks and beat the most powerful military in the world? That's fucking efficient. ;)


On HC: You can say the same exact thing about any other industry. "Bank industry would rape you dry," "phone industry will rape you dry..." I hear so much about the "race to the bottom" bs, when in reality when there is little regulation all I've seen is a race to the top because the top makes the most money. The only time when we, as consumers, as a whole, really get fucked over by an industry like what you're talking about is when there's no competition. Because of this stupid state line boundary crap, I can only shop among like 6 companies and it's almost impossible for new ones to get started b/c of the regulations.
Click to expand...

Didn't Enron and the rolling blackouts in California happen in a deregulated market? I would say every taxpayer and consumer got royally fucked that time.
 
Dynamo said:
your personal consent to the social contract is not required, it is automatically assumed by your status as a citizen of the country in which you currently reside. im not saying that's a good thing, but that's simply the way things are.
Click to expand...

I agree 100%.

You apparently assumed I was being sarcastic. I wasn't.
 
ZOD said:
The social contract as you put it does not negate your natural rights.
Click to expand...

If you are making the argument that your natural rights still exist even if your chosen society disregards them, well..so what?

Rights available to a person exist only as far as their society allows. Which is to say that, in reality, there are neither natural nor inherent...only allowed.

At one time, our society was founded on the notion of certain inalienable rights but "eroded over time" has replaced "shall not be infringed."
 
lol natural rights

Your rights exist as long as you come from a wealthy nation, otherwise you depend on the charity of the wealthy for those 'rights'.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top